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Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades #2920597
05/10/21 12:36 AM
05/10/21 12:36 AM
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Granite Bay CA
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I know that the 5.7 in my 2007 Ram 1500 won't last forever. Because of that, I'm thinking of getting a spare engine and going through it so when the time comes, I can just swap engines and have minimal down time.
I've read that the heads on the 5.7s flow well enough to support the cubic inches.....Unlike the old style LA, B and RB engines where the heads limit power, the 3G Hemi is not like that.
I want to maintain stock reliability but increase the power within the limits of the emission systems. I'm guessing that a slight cam increase coupled with better flowing exhaust may provide some additional punch while not adversely affecting the emissions and reliability.
Is there a published formula for this goal? Camshaft specs, header brand and part numbers, etc?

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2920712
05/10/21 11:43 AM
05/10/21 11:43 AM
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I could be off a little but I have heard this to be a good way to go. It works well in my Dart.

5.7 block crank
eagle heads
6.1 camshaft(New Push Rods and Lifters)
long tube headers
Maybe a tune to run e-85

this is on the real cheap. there are more cam choices out there that will net you a very good return but its all in how much you want to wake it up. I went to the point of premium gas, not race gas. this is just my two cents and really does not account for all the guys that have dug deep to pull great numbers out of these with better cam selection.

so far it sounds like for the modern guy the sky is the limit with these motors and still keep the drivability and mileage.

just my limited knowledge on the gen 3 in my car.


Thank you
Kiddart
Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2920750
05/10/21 12:55 PM
05/10/21 12:55 PM
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HotRodDave Offline
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Do you need emmisions legal or just a combo that will pass emmissions?

Swapping cam and heads and long tube headers and such is not technically legal but you can do a lot and still pass the sniffer and keep the CEL off.

Also is this a 2wd short box regular cab hot rod/daily driver (light weight) or 4 door 4wd used for towing (heavy weight)?


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: HotRodDave] #2920915
05/10/21 08:24 PM
05/10/21 08:24 PM
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Sorry...I made the classic mistake of asking for help without giving all the info.
The truck is a 2007 Ram 1500 regular cab 2wd. I need it to be reliable and run 89 octane gas. There have been street legal headers made for these trucks as far as I remember.
I do tow but not all that often....Usually just junker cars I bought or parts cars on a tow dolly.
It has 22" wheels and a 3.55 gear. I intend to swap to a deeper gear since when in OD, the final drive won't be terribly different than it is now.

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2920918
05/10/21 08:26 PM
05/10/21 08:26 PM
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I am currently in California but may move in a few years to a state where some areas have no emission testing. I still want it to pass the CA testing standards which for now, consist of a visible smoke test, a check of the PCM for codes and an evaporative systems inspection.

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2921023
05/11/21 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Frankenduster
I am currently in California but may move in a few years to a state where some areas have no emission testing. I still want it to pass the CA testing standards which for now, consist of a visible smoke test, a check of the PCM for codes and an evaporative systems inspection.


392 cam alone is a huge upgrade

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: SRT6776] #2921024
05/11/21 04:34 AM
05/11/21 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SRT6776
Originally Posted by Frankenduster
I am currently in California but may move in a few years to a state where some areas have no emission testing. I still want it to pass the CA testing standards which for now, consist of a visible smoke test, a check of the PCM for codes and an evaporative systems inspection.


392 cam alone is a huge upgrade


Can a 392 cam be used in the earlier pre-eagle 5/7 Hemi???

I was under the impression that they won't work in the early 5.7 Hemi.

I know the they don't have the later cam phaser.


Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: SNK-EYZ] #2921055
05/11/21 08:28 AM
05/11/21 08:28 AM
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Kern Dog Offline OP
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A bit more info here since I keep remembering other stuff....
The MDS needs to remain functional is possible.

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2921219
05/11/21 02:45 PM
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the 392 cam will not work in your block, what you want for cheap, easy, efeective is a 6.1 cam from an automatic car (manual trans cars did not have MDS), you can find them around $100 used on fleabay. Also if you can find em and afford em the 6.1 head gives you more flow and compression, I would not hesitate to take another .020 off them either. If you want to keep your 5.7 heads just shave em .030, these hemis are very friendly to high compression, I am currently running 12 to 1 in my daily driver.

I never could feel much performance difference from shorty headers, either get long tubes if you can find one CARB legal with the correct EO number or don't bother.

A little bigger throttle body will make it more throttle responsive and may give you just a hair more HP near redline. If you get a bored and ported factory throttle body it should go un noticed from an over zealous inspector as will a slight cam and compression upgrade.

Cat back exhaust might help a smidge, certainly can add some nice sound when combined with the little bigger 6.1 cam, same with a good cold air intake but again make sure it is CARB legal.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: HotRodDave] #2921366
05/11/21 08:49 PM
05/11/21 08:49 PM
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Thank you, Dave. up

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2921487
05/12/21 04:45 AM
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6.1's didnt have MDS, but I am sure someone makes a compatible cam for a 5.7

Last edited by SRT6776; 05/12/21 04:46 AM.
Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2922621
05/14/21 09:33 PM
05/14/21 09:33 PM
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Salem
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Originally Posted by Frankenduster

I want to maintain stock reliability but increase the power within the limits of the emission systems.


A 390 cubic inch plus stroker would be the route to go. Keep the cam stock as well as everything else.

There's one thing that won't set a check engine light, and that's the fact that the computer has no idea how far that crank is moving, it just knows to feed it the fuel. twocents

Cost-wise, a stroker is around $2000.00 and you will certainly have that tied up in headers, cam, computer, etc. going the other route.

As you may remember Franken, you and I have almost identical trucks: I spent some time in DodgeTalk and RamForumz and remember all the hype about 4.56's and 6.1 cams. A number of guys wound up with some really expensive repairs on practically new half-tons at the time, especially if they "tuned" their trucks. Maybe things have changed, I don't know?

Too bad your truck has so many miles (but that is a good thing up), or I would maybe suggest getting a 500 hp V10 (a few around for reasonable prices), 47RE and an ECM from a SRT10 Ram auto. whistling Can't say that thought has not crossed my mind, except I want the 640hp six speed. drool

Anyhow............somethings for you to think about. wink


Mo' Farts

Moderated by "tbagger".
Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Grizzly] #2922630
05/14/21 10:04 PM
05/14/21 10:04 PM
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Kern Dog Offline OP
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Thank you. I've never warmed up to the Viper V 10 engine. They sound terrible to me.
This is still a truck I use for construction work and commuting is still a reality. I'm toying with retiring but will still do some part time stuff. I need to keep the fuel economy over 15-16 mpg freeway. Currently I can get close to 20 if I'm on flat ground and under 70. If I have a nice power increase, I could deal with a 16 number!
I like the idea of a stroke. The engine would have more low end grunt with that. I've read of guys selling the SRT and Scat Pack 6.4 exhaust manifolds when they install headers. I wonder what the gains would be though. For comparison, a 360 didn't gain much when going from 273-318 manifolds to the 68-70 340 manifolds...A magazine article showed it to be approx 7 hp on a mild 360. Maybe the gains on a 5.7 Hemi might be more?

" I spent some time in DodgeTalk and RamForumz and remember all the hype about 4.56's and 6.1 cams. A number of guys wound up with some really expensive repairs on practically new half-tons at the time, especially if they "tuned" their trucks. Maybe things have changed,"
I'm certainly not looking to squeeze out all the power possible here. I just want a fresh engine with a few noticeable upgrades to increase the power without destroying the reliability or mileage.
The diff is as quiet as new but with the big wheels and tires, it should have deeper gears. This truck came stock with 17" wheels. The ones with 20" wheels usually had a 3.92.This truck had aftermarket 22" wheels on it when I bought it. I have SRT 10 spec 22 x 9 wheels with 305-40-22 Nitto tires. That is a lot of rotational weight.
I don't know if 4.10s are available for this 9.25 axle. I've never looked into it that far.

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2922657
05/14/21 11:51 PM
05/14/21 11:51 PM
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Salem
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You're welcome!

I've driven a few SRT10's and Vipers: I absolutely must have one. Under throttle, the sound in the cab is as if it's trying to suck you out of the Driver seat and into the intake. grin

Yes, the MDS on these trucks really does help the fuel mileage, part of my stroker suggestion. up For sure on the exhaust manifolds, I seen a set of SRT shorties in the local classifieds for like $75. Those manifolds are well-respected for their flow but Folks throw them out anyway for headers. As a side note, I've mentioned it on here before, but the original 5.7 exhaust manifolds were reported by Hot Rod magazine to flow nearly as well as tubular headers. This was in '03 and that info came straight from Chrysler.

The actual solution to the gearing has been solved by Chrysler: the 8 speed. wink I have the 20's with 3.92's and no matter what, the party is over when it shifts from 2nd to 3rd. 1.67 to 1.0 is a big jump.

You should look for a Fourth Gen Ram R/T: 390 hp and Factory 4:10's.


Mo' Farts

Moderated by "tbagger".
Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2922667
05/15/21 12:49 AM
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SRT6776 Offline
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Originally Posted by Frankenduster
Thank you. I've never warmed up to the Viper V 10 engine. They sound terrible to me.
This is still a truck I use for construction work and commuting is still a reality. I'm toying with retiring but will still do some part time stuff. I need to keep the fuel economy over 15-16 mpg freeway. Currently I can get close to 20 if I'm on flat ground and under 70. If I have a nice power increase, I could deal with a 16 number!
I like the idea of a stroke. The engine would have more low end grunt with that. I've read of guys selling the SRT and Scat Pack 6.4 exhaust manifolds when they install headers. I wonder what the gains would be though. For comparison, a 360 didn't gain much when going from 273-318 manifolds to the 68-70 340 manifolds...A magazine article showed it to be approx 7 hp on a mild 360. Maybe the gains on a 5.7 Hemi might be more?

" I spent some time in DodgeTalk and RamForumz and remember all the hype about 4.56's and 6.1 cams. A number of guys wound up with some really expensive repairs on practically new half-tons at the time, especially if they "tuned" their trucks. Maybe things have changed,"
I'm certainly not looking to squeeze out all the power possible here. I just want a fresh engine with a few noticeable upgrades to increase the power without destroying the reliability or mileage.
The diff is as quiet as new but with the big wheels and tires, it should have deeper gears. This truck came stock with 17" wheels. The ones with 20" wheels usually had a 3.92.This truck had aftermarket 22" wheels on it when I bought it. I have SRT 10 spec 22 x 9 wheels with 305-40-22 Nitto tires. That is a lot of rotational weight.
I don't know if 4.10s are available for this 9.25 axle. I've never looked into it that far.


Cam and a tune might be all you want, you'll need a diablo hand held tuner, then hook up with a good tuner and do it over e-mail. I know with a stock 392 they could get another 30-50hp just from a good tune. There are many that offer the service but www.ostdyno.com is the best I've heard

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Grizzly] #2922676
05/15/21 01:54 AM
05/15/21 01:54 AM
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Kern Dog Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Grizzly
You're welcome!

I've driven a few SRT10's and Vipers: I absolutely must have one. Under throttle, the sound in the cab is as if it's trying to suck you out of the Driver seat and into the intake. grin

Yes, the MDS on these trucks really does help the fuel mileage, part of my stroker suggestion. up For sure on the exhaust manifolds, I seen a set of SRT shorties in the local classifieds for like $75. Those manifolds are well-respected for their flow but Folks throw them out anyway for headers. As a side note, I've mentioned it on here before, but the original 5.7 exhaust manifolds were reported by Hot Rod magazine to flow nearly as well as tubular headers. This was in '03 and that info came straight from Chrysler.

The actual solution to the gearing has been solved by Chrysler: the 8 speed. wink I have the 20's with 3.92's and no matter what, the party is over when it shifts from 2nd to 3rd. 1.67 to 1.0 is a big jump.

You should look for a Fourth Gen Ram R/T: 390 hp and Factory 4:10's.


The exhaust manifolds on my 5.7 are a tiny log design that looks worse than a 440 C body manifold. No offense but when anyone claims that exhaust manifolds flow anywhere near what headers do, I get skeptical.
I have been tempted to buy a newer truck but I really like this one. The styling suits me and the tech is still within my understanding. The newer center screens annoy me with everything ran through the damn screen...Our 2015 Challenger had a screen go bad while under warranty.

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: SRT6776] #2922677
05/15/21 01:56 AM
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Kern Dog Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SRT6776


Cam and a tune might be all you want, you'll need a diablo hand held tuner, then hook up with a good tuner and do it over e-mail. I know with a stock 392 they could get another 30-50hp just from a good tune. There are many that offer the service but www.ostdyno.com is the best I've heard


Thank you.
I'm guessing that this would necessitate 92 or 93 octane to run?
Here in CA, 91 is the best we get aside from race gas. I don't want to run $5.00 per gallon gas all the time!

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: Kern Dog] #2922685
05/15/21 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Frankenduster
Originally Posted by SRT6776


Cam and a tune might be all you want, you'll need a diablo hand held tuner, then hook up with a good tuner and do it over e-mail. I know with a stock 392 they could get another 30-50hp just from a good tune. There are many that offer the service but www.ostdyno.com is the best I've heard


Thank you.
I'm guessing that this would necessitate 92 or 93 octane to run?
Here in CA, 91 is the best we get aside from race gas. I don't want to run $5.00 per gallon gas all the time!


The octane level is optional, 91 tunes are the norm but they'll toss in a 93 if you want. Tune process is idle, cruise and wot - send the logs over and they tweak them up to 3 times to get it right. Cam and tune you'll have a 430hp 5.7 minimum. Worries about sniffer test? send it back for a sniffer tune (LEAN)

Last edited by SRT6776; 05/15/21 03:39 AM.
Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: SRT6776] #2922730
05/15/21 09:44 AM
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I've been following this thread from the start to see what everyone would have in mind. I know right now off the top of my head, HHP (high horse performance) sells stroker short blocks that you can keep basic or build up, for a relatively affordable price. I know its on the opposite side of the country, but its a start. They will be able to answer all of your questions about any build, and they are authorized dealers of many top shelf brands including stocking mopar parts.

PS- you choose the comp ratio for the stroker short blocks

Re: Stock rebuild with a few legal upgrades [Re: moparjim79] #2922758
05/15/21 10:41 AM
05/15/21 10:41 AM
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Kern Dog Offline OP
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Hmmm....... work

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