Hey Scratch! Looking good! Is that the Chet Herbert cam that I gave you?

Whoops! I just took closer look at your cam, and noticed that it is a hydraulic roller. Cool!

Where did you get the machine work done? You probably stated somewhere in one of your replies, and I'll find it later.

Hmmm? Where did everybody go? I fear that I killed the 5 page long post, you had going there. (sigh)

Dang... it's a 3 page long post.

hey, just off line a while for winter break @ work.

motor is all done and moved onto the hydro bell/833OD trans for it......and !@#$%^&* it does not bolt up! digging out the NP435 and see if it fits. not what I want but now I need to know if it fits.

I got this hydro bell from Basketcase and IIRC it was off a 88d100 v6 with the A535 5 speed. which looks almost the same as a 833od unit. I just ASSumed it bolted up till now it don't.

I would prefer a 833 but would settle on a 833od. I don't think the a535 would hold up behind the v8 they way I want to drive it.

so I have in the shed the

NV4500 5 speed
NP435 4 speed
833OD 4 speed

since I have to stay with the hydro bell I need to find the A535 5 speed or hope the np435 bolts up.


maybe score one of the 9 bolt v6 hydro bells with the ax-15 5 speed out of a 2000 Dakota... NV3500 maybe?

I have an extra hydro bell from a V6 ax-15, but its an early bell from a 92 or 93 Dakota (if I can get through the fresh 6" of snow and get the lower garage door open, that is). I don't have an 833OD here, or I would do a test fit for you.
I'm a long ways away from you though, shipping would be a killer I suspect. Gene

poorboy, thanks! this could be a learning moment for me.

I guess some history lessons on the NPa535 5 speed along with the 833 & 833od unit is in order. did the 833 or 833od even get a hydro bell at any time in its run?

did the a535 5 speed replace the 833od in the early v6 daks?

IIRC I have seen some 90-93 w150s with a hydro bell/np435

anyone got the a535 5 speed to measure? I have only ran across 1 of them and found out if the shifter is broke or gone it is almost imposable to obtain one by itself.

on my 88-d100 v6 hydro bell the bolt spacing on the bell is wider than my 82-833od. but it also has what looks like to be the NP435 granny 4 speed bolt spacing. I will test fit it this weekend. I do know for sure it does not bolt to the nv4500 or the 833od.

I have only seen 1 v6 ax-15 5 speed in a 2000 dak when the guy had the engine out. I spyed the 9 bolts on the inside bell for the trans & only seen enough to know it was a ax-15 5 speed. ( of course I am Assuming again.) I do know the ax-15 in a 4.0 jeep Cherokee 4x4 is one tuff trans.

I do have a 82-mech linkage bell on the 435 that should accept the 8330d but I have a hydro clutch cab/pedals now. not wanting to go back to mech linkage.

it is my under standing that I would want a B-body 833 4 speed for correct shifter location using a b-body pistol grip non console/bench seat shifter. ( IIRC, that's what 340shorty had in his 82-d150 with a 70-340 6pak 833 4peed. but it was a mech bell.

right now the only positive I have on hand is I just did a complete rebuild the 435 4 speed. my fingers crossed if the hydro bell fits!

Wow, I wish I knew what all those trans numbers and all meant. Been away from that too long.
Exactly what is the major difference between the mech bell and hydro besides how the tranny bolts up? (if I read your post correctly)

So my info is pretty sketchy, so take it for whatever it may be worth.

The 435 is the granny gear heavy duty truck trans. Most work pickup trucks that came with a 4 speed, got them in the early days.

The mid 60s cars got the A833 4 speed up until around the mid 70s when the OD craze started because of fuel mileage. The a 833 was a tough bird before Mopar added the heavy duty version to use behind the 440s and the 426 Hemi. In the mid 70s, the 833 got an aluminum case instead of the cast iron version, and the OD trans got 3rd gear replaced with an OD gear (0.87 I believe) and the shift lever was flipped over so what used to be 4th was now 3rd, and visa-versa. The aluminum case could have problems under heavy abuse because the aluminum case would allow the main shaft and the secondary shafts to Waller out the holes in the case. I also believe Mopar offered a couple different 1st and 2ns gears as well to accommodate the lower powered vehicles.

i believe the 1st (and maybe part of the 2nd) year production Dakota got the aluminum case OD 833 but then they got the AX-15 5 speed. The AX-15 has the on top of the trans shift handle with internal sliding rods supported in the aluminum case that shifts the gears. The trans end of an AX-15 shift handle looks a lot like the bottom of the handle of the 435 shifter, but it fits in slots on the internal sliding the shift rods. Those sliding internal shift rods do not make power shifting very easy, they move way too slow to make us old motorheads happy (at least with the ax-15 in my coupe, but its also got nearly 200K miles on it).

I suspect the other lighter duty 5 speed (A535?) with the unique shifter was a short lived version of the AX -15 that had the 5 speed shifter outside of the trans body. It may have preceded the AX-15 or may have come after it. I've heard about it, but don't have any data on it. Dodge also had a few 5 speeds that had the bell attached, those bells were engine specific, and too new for me to be concerned about.

The NV 3500 and the NV 4500 are suppose to be the heavy duty 5 speeds put into the full sized trucks. I believe both of those also have the shift with the internal sliding shafts.

The main difference between the hydro bell and the mechanical bell is the hydro bell has provisions for mounting the hydraulic slave cylinder the replace the mechanical linkage on the older stuff. You can attach the slave cylinder to the mechanical bell, but it will take some engineering, just like you can convert the hydro bell back to a mechanical unit, but you will have to do some modifications because there is no provision to mount the ball stud for the cross bar.

Understand that Mopar didn't add any trans bolt pattern that didn't fit the current available transmissions. As the available transmission choices changed over the years, the trans bolt pattern on the bell kept pace, maybe only allowing an older trans pattern for a year or two. Of course, that was when Chrysler still was owned by Chrysler. I also suspect that as Chrysler was bought and sold a few times, the parts interchange may have became more consistent, the parts for a Dakota also fit a full size truck, and probably a jeep, but it could have really gotten screwed up too, because the "new" company wanted to use "their" parts instead of the last guy's parts. Gene

Poorboy, that sounds about right to me.

I checked my 2 bells and found the 82-d350 mech bell from the 360/435 granny tranny has dual bolt patterns... but it does not fit the 82-d100 833od 4 speed.

my 88-d100 v6 hydro bell has duel bolt patterns & fits my np435 but not the 833od. it is super tight on the bearing retainer but did go all the way on.

so... I guess I am looking for a v8- 833od mech bell for a truck chassis? or a hydro bell with the 833od bolt pattern if there is such a thing? might as well look around 833 trans while I am searching.

I should be able to fab up a slave cyl. mount fairly easy enough.


how exactly does the 833 & 833od differ? reading online it says the 3/4 lever is flip 180* so does it just shift 3/4 backwards? what happens if you bolt the lever on down like a 833? does it still shift/work?

Hummm….

I am guessing the bearing retainer is what I need to watch also with a 833 & 833od and I ASSume the bolt patter to bell is the same on all 833/833od 4 speeds?

The difference between the 833 and the OD 833 is the aluminum case, the switched lever, and 3rd gear being replaced with the OD gear. The OD trans also probably has a larger diameter front bearing retainer. the smaller retainer bolts on, but I think there was a seal drain added to the larger diameter bearing retainer that the smaller retainer doesn't fully cover.
Flipping the 3/4 gear lever on the OD trans will still shift, but when you put it in 3rd gear, you will have OD and 4th will be 1-1 gear. The flipped lever only changes which gear is engaged with the shifter in a certain position. The OD bells were all machined for the larger diameter retainer, a filler ring was available to fill the gap when a different trans was used. Back in the day, many bells were machined for the larger retainer, and a few placed offered the filler spacer, but it is probably not available these days. I believe the OD 833 was a 76-89 item in the Valarie and later years (after 84?) light duty trucks, after then it was either an automatic or the 5 speed. The 833 (std or OD) trans to bell bolt pattern was the same, but the retainer bearing housing was a different size.

The second bolt pattern on your bells may very well be for a 3 speed manual trans, not a different 4 speed. I think the 3 speed was still the base manual trans then.

Who knows for sure what Chrysler was doing in those days, probably using up what ever may have been laying in a warehouse someplace. 77/78/79 was the near bankruptcy time, and they were not back on their feet until after about 84-85. Lots of stuff went on during those years just to get a product into a customer's hands. Parts could have been substituted mid day and reverted back to the normal supply by the next day, or the next week, or when ever the extra found on the shelf stock ran out. The Omni/Horizon in 78/79 save Chrysler. The K car in 82/83 and the Minivan in 84/85 revived them, everything between was just survival.

I was a dealer tech in 86-87, you had to live through it to fully understand. I suspect things were not much different every time Chrysler has changed hands since the bankruptcy years. That is probably why accurate info on the modern stuff is so sketchy. Gene

great info, thanks.

clears up my brain on how it works now. sounds like rebuilding with the correct gear cogs would make it a 833 like I want in the end. but can use the 833od as is also.

now I just need to score a v6/v8 bellhousing that fits the 833od trans I have. fab up a slave mount & install it. this seems like the best plan.

checked all local JYs and no luck on any 4 or 5 speed anything mopar.

anyone got any leads on one?

Humm?? interesting.

I see Lakewood has a cast alum bell that will fit sb & gen3 hemi accepting the mopar 3 or 4 speed units as well as ferd based tremac 5 speed for use with a 130 tooth flywheel & 10.5 clutch for 300$ +/- free shipping.

I also see they have the same bell for a BB mopar 3/4 speed & tremac 5 speed.

could be the ticket for my 440 truck to get a 833 4 speed someday?

I have a 143 tooth fly and no 130 around here local for sure. except the 82-/6 flywheel and small clutch...

I believe the V6 and V8 Dakota 10.5" clutch trucks are all 130 tooth flywheels, but I haven't counted the teeth. Pretty sure the real 10.5" clutch stuff were 130 tooth and everything that used the 11" clutch were the 143 tooth flywheels. At least that was the difference back then, I believe.

Couldn't the hole for the bearing retainer be opened up to fit? I'm sure it could be done on a Bridgeport.

Raptor, all though the retainer hole was tight, it was dirty/dry going on and did seat all the way. but .. the granny gear 4 speed bolted up to both bells fine. the 2nd bolt patter was not even close to the 833od 4 speed.

I am still researching on the mopar a535-5 speed. I think it is the same as what GM calls the NV1500 light duty 5 speed? either way it is giving me a headache.


looking to score a v6-v8 833/833od bell. I see a couple A-body bells on ebay but me thinks I needs a B-body SB bell housing & B-body trans for correct shifter location in a truck chassis.


so I gots a complete 833od 4 speed from a truck and just need a bell housing. flywheel maybe? mine is a 143 tooth/10.5 & 11" clutch pattern. while I am searching I started fabing up a slave mount on my mech bell that fits the 435 granny tranny, this way I can mock it up on the bench. the stock hydro clutch system is a closed system so I can pump it by hand and get the slave mounted for correct rod travel. or convert it over to the small GM style slave?

it is a toss up at the moment...300$ for the new lakewood cast alum bell for mopar 3 & 4 speed trans-tremac 5 speed or (if confirmed A-body bell can work) for 300$ both off ebay free shipping.

Been 9 months buddy, any more progress? Get through the hurricane ok?

Ive been wondering about the loss of traction here from "scratch-in for traction"

I've been talking with him on phone. Mike is a great guy and retired back in May after 33 years, and got himself a Softail only to have someone run a red light and hit him. He suffered some pretty bad leg injuries and has been through two surgeries (so far). I'll post some pics for him soon and hopefully he'll be back on here soon. Engine is ready to fire btw.

If you are a buddy of Mike's pm me for his number if you want to call him.

Larry

oh no !
thoughts and prayers his way for a speedy recovery !

Yes for sure. If you know him you know what a great guy he is. Always willing to help and just an overall good guy. To say he had a compound fracture in one spot is understatement. I can post some pics. Would it be going too far to post a pic of compound fracture?