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Re: 440 MPG? [Re: HotRodDave] #2915461
04/26/21 09:49 PM
04/26/21 09:49 PM
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Atlanta, GA
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Originally Posted by HotRodDave
The 318 with 360 heads absolutely kills compression, that's where the low end TQ goes, depending on what head gaskets you use (cheap rebuild kits are usually .054) and if you use pistons with 4 valve reliefs like most cheap replacements it is very easy to end up in the 6ish compression ratio. You need to run a 360 head milled to closed chamber and then you might as well go magnum with ports the same size as a 360 and already a good closed chamber design.

The torker was a terrible design no matter what motor you put it on, sharp angles turning into the ports causing fuel to drop out and no air gap to keep things cool.

No on the anti reversion mufflers, I don't think it would be hard to make some up (tesla valve maybe?) but I kind of doubt it's effectiveness unless you had a cam with too much overlap or something. My theory on it would be that if your exhaust flows good enough there won't be any significant reversion going on, maybe I need to try to build one for the 92 dakota.

It's not hard to make more tq than an old 12 valve, I Never could figure out why they were so popular for towing (at least in stock form), the 6.4 in my 2011 ram 1500 would destroy my old 93 12 valve in a towing contest, I just towed another 2011 1500 ram on an open trailer on a 200 mile trip and got 14.5 MPG passing 18 wheelers on a couple big passes. I did like running used oil and transmission fluid for fuel in the old cummins though, it was fun filling it with an endless supply of used oil at the honda dealer I was working at.






6.4 truck motor is a beast for sure. I wonder is there a way to use the 6.4 sodium exhaust valve in a small block magnum head?

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 04/26/21 09:52 PM.
Re: 440 MPG? [Re: mgoblue9798] #2915690
04/27/21 01:29 PM
04/27/21 01:29 PM
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The one in my half ton is actually an SRT8 not the BGE and the heads were milled down to eagle size 65CC (I think I ended up around 11.5 compression) and a little touch of porting.

I am trying to decide exactly what to do with my 6.4 I am building for my 2011 ram 2500 I just bought (locked up 5.7). I think I want to run either the BGE MDS cam or stock 5.7 MDS cam this time to trade a little top end witch there is no shortage of for a little more low end TQ. I have a complete BGE engine and a spare set of SRT pistons, injectors and cam to convert it so I just need to finger out what compression and cam combo I want to run (can't afford a custom or any aftermarket cam really), how much cylinder pressure do I dare run (SRT8 in current 1500 ram runs around 210-220 PSI? I am currently thinking BGE pistons zero decked (about .020 down right now) mill heads .020 and run .030 head gaskets and I should be just under or at 11 to 1 then run the 5.7 cam, SRT8 injectors and a 90 MM throttle body, that should work real good with the 5.7 stock tune but add a butt load of TQ down low. Im trying to think of it more as a bored and stroked 5.7 instead of an SRT or BGE engine. There is even a small part of me in the back of my head saying run the eagle heads for easy compression and higher velocity but the BGEs I have do use a better metal to conduct away and spread out the heat better, sodium filled ex valves and an even better chamber shape... I think the SRT pistons and smaller cam would just be too much cylinder pressure but maybe it could take it??? Honestly I always get scared when building a really high compression motor because it is a pain to go back in and lower it if needed.

I sure wish e-85 was readily available here I would zero deck it with the SRT pistons, mill the eagle heads .030 and run the 5.7 cam and really make some cylinder pressure.

I am a firm believer that most any factory engineered engine can easily take another half or even full point of compression (some even more!) but they are compromised to minimize NOX and warranty claims from people using the wrong grade fuel.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 440 MPG? [Re: HotRodDave] #2916238
04/28/21 06:35 PM
04/28/21 06:35 PM
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So I just got to thinking about my current combo, I ran the numbers through KBs compression ratio calculator, the 392 in my ram right now is 12 to 1 with a 6.4 SRT8 cam, if I so much as think about running anything less than premium the knock sensors start getting a little activity but nothing audible. I think I am gonna shoot for 11 to 1 with a 5.7 cam in the new 392 for the 3/4 ton, basically an SRT8 with a smaller cam.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 440 MPG? [Re: HotRodDave] #2916536
04/29/21 01:29 PM
04/29/21 01:29 PM
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HRD do you work at a dealership? Judging by your posts you have always seemed to have a bunch of factory mopar stuff on hand for builds

Maybe you could start a thread on your hemi build. Like you, I can't just do a simple build and I try to make something better than the factory did.

I would be interested in reading more about your hemi build. Hemi stuff is finally old enough now and reaching my price point- cheap, plus the price of a tow bill to get it home.

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 04/29/21 01:29 PM.
Re: 440 MPG? [Re: mgoblue9798] #2916788
04/29/21 11:44 PM
04/29/21 11:44 PM
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I used to work at a dealer years ago, I run my own repair shop now butt just knd of ended up a dodge specialist after that first dodge job. High efficiency stuff has always interested me, not just MPG but decent MPG with some power also. I started onto the high compression kick when my dad bought a new geo metro and it would get 50mpg and had 210 PSI cranking pressure and ran best on low grade fuel, I just had to know why we couldn't do that in more hot rod type stuff.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 440 MPG? [Re: HotRodDave] #2917729
05/02/21 03:23 PM
05/02/21 03:23 PM
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If anyone has a set of old 413 MH head bolts and push rods I could use them. Any accessory brackets as well for ps pump, alt, ac. Thanks,

Re: 440 MPG? [Re: mopartruckguy] #2918332
05/04/21 09:43 AM
05/04/21 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mopartruckguy
Who has some real world numbers from a 4x4 with 33"/35" tires and a 440 with 400+ HP. What could a fellow expect the mileage to be on a motor of this caliber?


Not enough info to quote accurately, but I'd guess somewhere between 5-8.

Once upon a time I had a 440 in a D200 crew cabwith 4.10s and 33" tires that would knock down low-mid teens in town and high teens on the highway. Engine was built not for horsepower but for torque and was all in by 3500 with a redline of no more than 5000. It was a pretty basic build; balanced, almost blueprinted, around 11:1 compression, performer intake, Ebrock carb, small cam, and a lot of thermal barrier and dry lube coating throughout the engine.

The 11:1 worked great where I live at 6500' elevation. It also was a beast pulling over mountain passes in the 10,000' range as well. I could pass traffic with a loaded trailer. However, it was a big problem at lower elevations. A trip to Phoenix once was detonation city and it was drinking octane boost like nobodie's business. I built a replacement for it that was down a couple points on compression and it also was down on mileage and power, but it would live at lower elevations.

In hindsight, methanol injection on the higher squeeze motor would have been a good addition to help with lower elevation issues, but I never got around to it. This engine is still sitting in my garage on a stand. I've been thinking of a larger cam to offset the high compression would be nice, and drop it into something lighter weight than a truck.

Re: 440 MPG? [Re: TC@HP2] #2918403
05/04/21 12:17 PM
05/04/21 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TC@HP2
Originally Posted by mopartruckguy
Who has some real world numbers from a 4x4 with 33"/35" tires and a 440 with 400+ HP. What could a fellow expect the mileage to be on a motor of this caliber?


Not enough info to quote accurately, but I'd guess somewhere between 5-8.

Once upon a time I had a 440 in a D200 crew cabwith 4.10s and 33" tires that would knock down low-mid teens in town and high teens on the highway. Engine was built not for horsepower but for torque and was all in by 3500 with a redline of no more than 5000. It was a pretty basic build; balanced, almost blueprinted, around 11:1 compression, performer intake, Ebrock carb, small cam, and a lot of thermal barrier and dry lube coating throughout the engine.

The 11:1 worked great where I live at 6500' elevation. It also was a beast pulling over mountain passes in the 10,000' range as well. I could pass traffic with a loaded trailer. However, it was a big problem at lower elevations. A trip to Phoenix once was detonation city and it was drinking octane boost like nobodie's business. I built a replacement for it that was down a couple points on compression and it also was down on mileage and power, but it would live at lower elevations.

In hindsight, methanol injection on the higher squeeze motor would have been a good addition to help with lower elevation issues, but I never got around to it. This engine is still sitting in my garage on a stand. I've been thinking of a larger cam to offset the high compression would be nice, and drop it into something lighter weight than a truck.


With the engine on your stand I would seriously consider retarding the cam a few or 10 degrees to bleed off compression and a little reversion back up the intake will help mix the air and fuel better, lastly it will give the burned air and fuel more time to press down on the piston before the exhaust valve opens and lets the pressure out, this is the expansion ratio and the theory is that this is even more important than the compression ratio, sort of like an atkins cycle engine.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 440 MPG? [Re: HotRodDave] #2935661
06/22/21 02:58 PM
06/22/21 02:58 PM
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Corpus Christi, TX
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I recently got my wife's 74 Ramcharger running & driving again after sitting for too long.

It's a factory 440 truck and the only mods are an intake off of a 71 440-4speed car, heat crossovers blocked off, double roller timing chain and melling HV oil pump. I'ts got D60/D70 axles with 3.54 gears and 33" tires on aluminum wheels. I've driven it 255 miles now and using the Fuelly App to track everything, I'm getting 6.7mpg average. Currently having to leave the hub's locked as I have not installed the MM 203 Part Time kit yet.

I drive it to Mustang Island / Port Aranas to cruise, eat, drink, get sunburnt and back. going 63mph on the highway I'm turning 2100rpm.

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Last edited by shanker; 06/22/21 02:59 PM.

The Federal Government has not yet learned that you cannot legislate morality 1970 Coronet R/T FF4/FF8/V85/V1G 440/Auto/3.23 1970 Coronet R/T FK5/FK5/V8W/V1W 440/Auto/3.55 1970 Super Bee TX9/TX9/V8W/N96 383/Auto/3.91 1975 Duster 360 VS29L5 Daily Driver
Re: 440 MPG? [Re: shanker] #2952342
08/10/21 09:29 AM
08/10/21 09:29 AM
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Joplin, MO USA
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My 86 RC 2wd.....with 446cid with 915 heads that had gotten E-brock size valves and a 518 with 4.10's with 31's....got horrible gas mileage.

I'm about to try it with an OD833....but I'm not holding my breathe for good mileage.

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Last edited by Robbins; 08/10/21 09:31 AM.

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