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Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: feets] #2914471
04/24/21 06:40 PM
04/24/21 06:40 PM
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Jefferson State
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ESYC
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How about building a low rock gabion (wire basket) wall containing a perforated discharge pipe. Place a vertical epdm sheet on the side you do not want rater to flow (with a layer of rock facing for aesthetics. It could be installed with fence posts for fence along the road or walkway and the walk to your house ramped over to prevent flow back.
I'd need a little more specifics to give the best concept.
Which way does water run on Ridgewood?

Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: srt] #2914475
04/24/21 06:51 PM
04/24/21 06:51 PM
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Harriman NY
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71GTX471 Offline
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Just move let the next owner worry about it.

Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: srt] #2914482
04/24/21 07:02 PM
04/24/21 07:02 PM
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Jefferson State
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Pic

Feets Drain.jpg
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: feets] #2914500
04/24/21 07:55 PM
04/24/21 07:55 PM
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USA
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Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by HotRodDave
can you just fill your yard some and let the other neighbors worry about kevin?



[Linked Image]


My other two catch basins are at the fence with the other neighbor behind me. She's elderly and I haven't see her in the back yard in more than 10 years. Her yard has standing water. It soaks through the clay and percolates up into my catch basins. I can actually watch the water bubble in.

It hasn't rained since yesterday afternoon and my pump is still cycling every few minutes to remove water leaching in from the clay.


Does the elderly female neighbor behind you have a storm drain pipe under the street in front of her house?

Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: srt] #2914518
04/24/21 08:45 PM
04/24/21 08:45 PM
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Irving, TX
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Variations on a French drain will not work. The biggest problem is getting the water out of the ground and to the surface.

Moving is not an option unless someone is willing to donate the $350,000 it'll take to get me another house with a two car garage and attached machine shop. I'll have this place paid off in 5 years.

Water in the street drains to the left on the overhead pic.

The street behind mine does not have storm drains either.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: larrymopar360] #2914519
04/24/21 08:46 PM
04/24/21 08:46 PM
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Irving, TX
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Originally Posted by larrymopar360
Originally Posted by jcc
I'm more curious who feels they are in the select group of "the greatest minds on Moparts". work
LOL, I was staying out of this thread until you commented! laugh



I was hoping to lure them in, not count myself amongst them.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: feets] #2914526
04/24/21 09:18 PM
04/24/21 09:18 PM
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is there some rule or issue with piping it to your sewer line?
isn't that like a 4 inch main?

Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: Andrewh] #2914531
04/24/21 09:50 PM
04/24/21 09:50 PM
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Irving, TX
feets Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Andrewh
is there some rule or issue with piping it to your sewer line?
isn't that like a 4 inch main?


Yeah, that's a big no-no. They don't appreciate flooding the sewer system with storm water. In theory, the rain water dribbles back to the lakes and reservoirs.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: feets] #2914576
04/25/21 01:46 AM
04/25/21 01:46 AM
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Jefferson State
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Feets, the french drain drawing posted, is built above original ground sort of like a wire wrapped rock wall. For that matter build a rock wall, or brick wall with weep holes?
What is the cfm of the optput pump?
Other options include popup sprinklers/shrub bubblers?

Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: srt] #2914593
04/25/21 04:37 AM
04/25/21 04:37 AM
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SW Fla.
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Pic of the pump setup?
Just go 2" all the way.
Bury the line in your yard
May need an above ground P trap for back flow prevention a strategic spot any place on the line, toward the end is preferable. Buy a bush.
Saw cut side walk and curb to put the pipe in and cover with concrete again. Not sure about city permission to do so.

Last edited by CYACOP; 04/25/21 04:54 AM.
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: 360view] #2914595
04/25/21 05:04 AM
04/25/21 05:04 AM
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USA
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Feets, with the additional info you have provided, your decision to spend the money for an additional electric pump and pay the added cost for kw-hrs of electric power is the best of a bad situation.

You mention the past $30,000 for the foundation work.
Did the foundation repair company suggest installing a water diverting underground curtain of any sort?
Something like a vertical plastic sheet buried six or so feet out from the side of your house?
This would delay the next $30,000 to fix the foundation again.

You mention the estimate of 13,000 gallons having to be pumped after after a 5 inch rain.

There are 7.48 gallons per cubic foot.
5 inches is 5/12 of a foot, so
multiply the width of your backyard by the length of your backyard by 5/12
to get the gallons of rain falling on your property,
and it will tell your what gallons is draining in from property you do not own.

The better solution is to get politicians to fund the retrofit of storm drains to your street, then instal backyard drains that run underground to the new storm drains.
This is easier said than done, but think about putting some effort into that after having so much personal expense.

There is an engineering joke that
the 3 most important parts of railroad construction is:
Drainage, Drainage and Drainage.

Before Julius Caesar became famous as a battle general
he first gained fame for building a long section of the Apian Way road in Southern Italy.
and it had excellent drainage, parts of which still drain well 2000 years later.



Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: 360view] #2914634
04/25/21 08:16 AM
04/25/21 08:16 AM
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North Dakota
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This is how I interpret your situation. Pumped transfer from a collection point to a discharge point over about 150' of pipe with a slight high point in the discharge piping run. First off, there isn't any reason to go to 3", the head loss for 43 gpm with 150' of 2" PVC is about 6'. If you have your pump curve I would assume it's perfectly capable of handling this. Go to all 2", trench the line in where it is in the yard, go under the sidewalk and penetrate the curb. Use a stainless mesh to cover the end of the pipe and you are done.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: CYACOP] #2914647
04/25/21 08:56 AM
04/25/21 08:56 AM
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Irving, TX
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Originally Posted by CYACOP
Pic of the pump setup?
Just go 2" all the way.
Bury the line in your yard
May need an above ground P trap for back flow prevention a strategic spot any place on the line, toward the end is preferable. Buy a bush.
Saw cut side walk and curb to put the pipe in and cover with concrete again. Not sure about city permission to do so.


Simple solution but there is no room to go under the sidewalk and through the curb. It would create a belly in the pipe that would draw in water/debris from the street. The debris could block a check valve.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: 6PakBee] #2914653
04/25/21 09:04 AM
04/25/21 09:04 AM
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Irving, TX
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Originally Posted by 6PakBee
This is how I interpret your situation. Pumped transfer from a collection point to a discharge point over about 150' of pipe with a slight high point in the discharge piping run. First off, there isn't any reason to go to 3", the head loss for 43 gpm with 150' of 2" PVC is about 6'. If you have your pump curve I would assume it's perfectly capable of handling this. Go to all 2", trench the line in where it is in the yard, go under the sidewalk and penetrate the curb. Use a stainless mesh to cover the end of the pipe and you are done.


I used the 2" for the uphill runs. The 3" running downhill relieved the load on the pump. The biggest reason for the 3" pipe was the flow rate of the outlet grate. I wanted to stop critters and such from getting into the pipe during our long dry periods. A 2" pipe has a very restrictive grate where the 3" grate is very close to the flow of a 2" pipe.

I'm using a Zoeller M63 pump.

[Linked Image]

When I get my power upgraded I'll install a pump on the other side of the house to handle downspouts over there and help dewater the soil quicker. When that happens, I'll move the existing pump into that basin and drop a Zoeller M98 in the primary pump basin.

[Linked Image]


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: feets] #2914662
04/25/21 09:15 AM
04/25/21 09:15 AM
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Posts: 10,985
North Dakota
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Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by CYACOP
Pic of the pump setup?
Just go 2" all the way.
Bury the line in your yard
May need an above ground P trap for back flow prevention a strategic spot any place on the line, toward the end is preferable. Buy a bush.
Saw cut side walk and curb to put the pipe in and cover with concrete again. Not sure about city permission to do so.


Simple solution but there is no room to go under the sidewalk and through the curb. It would create a belly in the pipe that would draw in water/debris from the street. The debris could block a check valve.


I see I agreed with CYACOP. You are overthinking this. 4" curb, 2" sidewalk, you have about 2" to work with. 2" PVC is about 2 3/8" OD so yes, this is pushing it a bit. But 1 1/2" PVC is about 2" OD which would put you right on the mark. Transition to 1 1/2" prior to the sidewalk and use two 1 1/2" outlets. Done. You mentioned that your collection point (pump location) is lower than the street. You also mentioned that you have a high point in the line. Put an atmospheric vent at this point to prevent syphoning from the street to the collection point. I would doubt that water running into the drain from the street would be a concern. We have high ground water in my town and there are probably half a dozen installations where the curb was penetrated at street level for a sump pump discharge.

Edit: I did a quick hydraulic calculation assuming 5' of static head from your collection point to the high point and your pump flowrate of 43 gpm is pretty close. up

Last edited by 6PakBee; 04/25/21 09:30 AM. Reason: Hydraulic Calc

"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: 6PakBee] #2914675
04/25/21 09:30 AM
04/25/21 09:30 AM
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GA
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How about planting water absorbing plants? https://thepracticalplanter.com/plants-that-absorb-lots-of-water/. If everyone plants a few maybe they will take care of the standing water.

Last edited by roadrunninMark; 04/25/21 09:43 AM.
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: CYACOP] #2914718
04/25/21 11:07 AM
04/25/21 11:07 AM
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Albany, NY
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The member whose name is actually Art
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Albany, NY
Originally Posted by CYACOP

Pic of the pump setup?
Just go 2" all the way.
Bury the line in your yard
May need an above ground P trap for back flow prevention a strategic spot any place on the line, toward the end is preferable. Buy a bush.
Saw cut side walk and curb to put the pipe in and cover with concrete again. Not sure about city permission to do so.


I think you are lucky to live in a municipality that appears happy to let you do as you please without engineering drawings, licensed contractors, insurance and permits...

Bury the whole pipe, it's being pumped uphill anyway, so go under the sidewalk and to the curb.
Even if it creates a low spot in the 2" piping - so what? That trapped water will just sit there static when pump is not running.
Cut the sidewalk open to bury the pipe, drill or cut through the curb and terminate the 2" discharge in the curb face.
The cost of this will not be high to get that last stretch.
A small PVC back flow preventer will not clog easily especially if you 45 the curb discharge in the direction of flow.
You can place the back flow below the grass between sidewalk and curb where it can be accessed for service.
You can even put a 45-T junction on the discharge side at the backflow so you can open it and flush debris out of it.
Once you have the above scope done, and it has run for a month or two, evaluate what works and what doesn't..

Everything should be accessed for easy service or replacement, which brings me to my next, larger point:

This is a battle between nature and technology. Which one of those two relies on engineering, construction and maintenance?

The burden is on your technology.
You *are* making it as simple as possible, but for sure some part of this will eventually fail and need maintenance.
Just anticipate it and make it easy to access or improve as needed.

Then consider how much maintenance your neighbor who filled his property has had to follow up with.. What is the comparative cost of filling in Lake Kevin?

Long term - do you think you will dry out the black clay?
Because drying clay will shrink and introduce more slope to adjacent properties, which will attract more runoff water.. the ripple effect will possibly need another solution.. beware of nature - she is a b!t$$h
- Art


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Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: feets] #2914861
04/25/21 05:09 PM
04/25/21 05:09 PM
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SW Fla.
CYACOP Offline
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Maybe I should have said an up side down P trap that extends above the underground pipe. The pump will push the fluid up and out but not allow the water to travel back to the pump.

Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2914969
04/25/21 09:27 PM
04/25/21 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,114
Irving, TX
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Mother Nature will always win. All I can do is try to manage what I'm dealt.

There is no way I will ever keep up with the flooding. All I can do is minimize the damage.

For what it's worth, I did raise the back yard a few inches about ten years ago. When I dug out the forms for the shop foundation I spread the spoil across the back yard. That helped a little and I only get 6-7 inches of standing water now. Luckily, if it gets much higher than that the water will flow around the house and out to the street.

It seldom rains all day in DFW. Instead, we normally get the heavy storms that blow through and dump massive amounts of rain in a very short time. In the example I listed, the pump was overrun in about 15 minutes and had 4 inches of water over the pump basin with about 8 inches of water at the catch basins. That storm lasted 45 minutes and took 5 hours of continuous pumping to evacuate. After catching up, the pump cycled for a couple days removing ground water.

The incident that caused me to install the pump was having water get into my shop. The rain was so heavy that the yard flooded with water going around the house and managed to still get just high enough to make a puddle that went 2 feet out from the wall inside the shop.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Need help from the greatest minds on Moparts [Re: roadrunninMark] #2915079
04/26/21 08:52 AM
04/26/21 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by roadrunninMark
How about planting water absorbing plants? https://thepracticalplanter.com/plants-that-absorb-lots-of-water/. If everyone plants a few maybe they will take care of the standing water.
Willow trees also really suck up the water.

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