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Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: 440Jim] #2913625
04/22/21 08:25 PM
04/22/21 08:25 PM
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AndyF Offline
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Originally Posted by 440Jim
Originally Posted by AndyF

More stall might be a good idea but the stall speed will increase naturally from the extra torque so I'd try it first.

I agree with the trend, so the converter company will make use of the extra data. But I still think that "small 446" CID and long 284 deg @.050 duration will want high 5 grand stall speed for best perf.

Now I am coming from 500+ CID experience...


I agree with you but I'm wondering if that 446 engine really needs 284 duration. My guess is that the car would be faster with a smaller cam. The OP might not want to spin that 446 high enough to make use of the 284. If I was building a 446 with those heads and a solid roller I'd probably be 10 degrees smaller if not more. My 470 ran best with 264/268 and that was with MW heads and a ported intake. I didn't have as much compression so with more compression the cam can be a bit bigger. If the cam was smaller then the torque converter might be okay as is.

I just ran a 565 inch BB Chevy on the dyno with a 284 cam. It was a full race setup with 14:1 compression, CNC heads, Dart block, etc. It made 900 hp at 6500 rpm. Makes me think the OP's cam is too big.....

Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: rebel] #2913667
04/22/21 10:01 PM
04/22/21 10:01 PM
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WNY
Moparrob68 Offline OP
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Rebel, are you spinning that 455 to 8000 with a stock block? I've been trying to keep the rpm under 7000 to make the tall fill,Hughes girdled stock 440 live.

Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: AndyF] #2913693
04/22/21 10:50 PM
04/22/21 10:50 PM
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WNY
Moparrob68 Offline OP
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Andy, I was running the OORB 440-1's with an old Reed 271/274 .625 lift roller for 3 seasons until I lost a lifter and scored the cam. I had the Comp 284* .660 lift roller sitting on the shelf for 30 years from my old Stage 6 446 motor so I threw that in with the old Crane rollers to get me back on the track.
The car ran the exact same ET and MPH with both cams shifting at 6500,6700,6800 and 6900.I tried 1.6 rockers and it lost half a tenth.I figured the cam was too big but it kept me racing and the car sounded a lot meaner. I tried 4.86 gears when it had the smaller cam but the car ran the Exact same ET and picked up 2 MPH while pushing it through the traps at 7400. Rather than work the stock block filled/girdled 440 any harder for little gain I swapped the 4.30's back in. I could always try the 4.86's again with the ported heads.
The car has always liked leaving on the brake at 4800 for a 1.37 60ft. If I lowered the launch to 4200 or 3800 it lost 0.15 to 0.20 ET and 60ft was in the 1.40's. I was Leary about running more than 36* timing with 13,5 comp but my reaction times were all over the place, mostly red. I bumped the timing up to 38* then 40* and was able to launch at 4200 with a good rt and run the same ET.
Wong story short, I sent the old Reed cam out to Bullet and had it reground wit 276*/279* dur .670 lift with 1.6 rocker ratio. Do you think that cam would perform better in this combo or will the ported heads like the 284 cam.

PS: My plan was to use the ported heads with the 284* cam on a 14.5 comp 493 that I was piecing together but the crank is .020 under and the only narrow bearings I can find listed are Kings and they have been on backorder for 6 months so it looks like the 446 will be going back in

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Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: Moparrob68] #2913728
04/23/21 12:28 AM
04/23/21 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Moparrob68
Rebel, are you spinning that 455 to 8000 with a stock block? I've been trying to keep the rpm under 7000 to make the tall fill,Hughes girdled stock 440 live.


No, I'm using a low deck Maxx block. I have a 512 with a stock block I rev to 7k, but has a BCR girdle kit to keep it together.

Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: Moparrob68] #2913735
04/23/21 01:20 AM
04/23/21 01:20 AM
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I'm pretty sure that the 284 is too big for your engine in terms of making best power but based on your testing it might be a good match for your chassis. In other words, if you put a smaller cam in it then perhaps the extra torque will set off a domino effect and it might take you a bunch of work with springs and shocks to get back to a good 60 ft time. Same thing with your timing test. I'd never recommend adding timing like that to solve a reaction time issue but if it works for you then go for it. Seems like playing with fire though. That is a lot of timing for a high compression wedge headed engine. I'd never run 40 degrees of timing in a high compression BB Mopar engine.

Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: Moparrob68] #2913786
04/23/21 09:43 AM
04/23/21 09:43 AM
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440Jim Offline
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Originally Posted by Moparrob68

I sent the old Reed cam out to Bullet and had it reground wit 276*/279* dur .670 lift with 1.6 rocker ratio. Do you think that cam would perform better in this combo or will the ported heads like the 284 cam.
I hate to say change too many things at once (heads and cam), but since you want to keep the RPM below 7000; I think the 276*/279* dur .670 lift would be a better fit.
More torque to improve the sixty foot time and work with the existing "low" stall converter better.
Still think a high 5k converter is the right thing to have at the end of the day (month, year, etc.). It has been a long time since I raced less than 493 CID, but that sixty foot seems slow for a 2950 lb car with a 3-speed transmission.
Or is it a PG with 1.76/1.80 first gear?


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: Moparrob68] #2913792
04/23/21 09:51 AM
04/23/21 09:51 AM
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Quite simply, I wouldn't do a thing. I'd go run the car, get a timeslip, then, the incrementals on that slip, will tell you everything you want/need to know. You can then adjust with data. This is the old ask 100 people, and you'll get 130 answers.I am sure you will need to make changes, but I wouldn't just guess.


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Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #2913797
04/23/21 10:12 AM
04/23/21 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CompWedgeEngines
Quite simply, I wouldn't do a thing. I'd go run the car, get a timeslip, then, the incrementals on that slip, will tell you everything you want/need to know. You can then adjust with data. This is the old ask 100 people, and you'll get 130 answers.I am sure you will need to make changes, but I wouldn't just guess.



I agree 100%. I personally don't see the need for more converter or more gear. It's a bracket car, no sense in killing the motor with rpm that you don't have to. I am sure it will run quite well.

Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: sixpakdodge] #2913816
04/23/21 11:10 AM
04/23/21 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sixpakdodge


I agree 100%. I personally don't see the need for more converter or more gear. It's a bracket car, no sense in killing the motor with rpm that you don't have to. I am sure it will run quite well.


iagree A buddy of mine runs a 499 or 500" wedge in a tube chassis bracket car, smallish solid roller with good springs. It runs 5.70's or so shifting at 6400 and lives long trouble free lives.

Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #2913824
04/23/21 11:16 AM
04/23/21 11:16 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Originally Posted by CompWedgeEngines
Quite simply, I wouldn't do a thing. I'd go run the car, get a timeslip, then, the incrementals on that slip, will tell you everything you want/need to know. You can then adjust with data. This is the old ask 100 people, and you'll get 130 answers.I am sure you will need to make changes, but I wouldn't just guess.

iagree iagree iagree up


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Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: justinp61] #2913905
04/23/21 01:04 PM
04/23/21 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by justinp61
Originally Posted by sixpakdodge


I agree 100%. I personally don't see the need for more converter or more gear. It's a bracket car, no sense in killing the motor with rpm that you don't have to. I am sure it will run quite well.


iagree A buddy of mine runs a 499 or 500" wedge in a tube chassis bracket car, smallish solid roller with good springs. It runs 5.70's or so shifting at 6400 and lives long trouble free lives.


Exactly. The 528 in my Omni-Charger went 5.65-5.70 shifting at the same rpm. It has -1's, bowl ported (330@ .700), .693 roller, 1.76 Glide, and a 4.10 gear. Car is 2500 with me in it. I can't remember the Duration or Cam CL, but it is a fairly mild grind.

Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2913907
04/23/21 01:08 PM
04/23/21 01:08 PM
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440Jim Offline
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Guys,
He can't do nothing and just run it. He already ported the heads.
This is the time to make changes. But not too many.
I prefer one at a time. But taking the entire engine apart to change things is not in everybodys desire.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: 440Jim] #2913937
04/23/21 02:16 PM
04/23/21 02:16 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I’d put it back together with the Bullet cam.

I built a RB451 several years ago.......
13:1, SR heads with MW openings that flowed in the 340’s, port matched 440-3, 272@.050/.650 lift cam, 1.5 rockers.
Made peak tq at 5500, peak hp at 7200.


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Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Indy Heads back from porting, Guess on HP/ET Gain? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2913958
04/23/21 03:10 PM
04/23/21 03:10 PM
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Keymar, MD
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I'd put it back together and run it. See what the heads pick you up and that will give you a better idea of what if any other changes may need to be made. Right now it's a guessing game as what COULD help it until you get on track data.

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