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I hate bronze oil pump gears! #2908284
04/09/21 02:37 AM
04/09/21 02:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 223
California
70Drop Offline OP
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California
I'm re-assembling my engine after a refresh. The bronze O/P drive gear has 0.020 backlash, so I need to replace it - again. It wouldn't bother me if this were a $30 part, but at $150 a pop, the costs add up! I'd appreciate any suggestions as to a longer-lasting gear or less-expensive alternative.

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: 70Drop] #2908300
04/09/21 04:49 AM
04/09/21 04:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348
Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon Offline
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Isle of Sheeps
Go to 'for a bodies only' there is a big discussion about, 'melonized hardened gears'!

One gear is steel and the other is iron, then all you have to know is what your cam is 'made of' to get the right one?

Most billet cams are steel 'of course' and some factory rollers are iron based cores...

Last edited by Gtxxjon; 04/09/21 04:52 AM.

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!

There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: 70Drop] #2908302
04/09/21 05:14 AM
04/09/21 05:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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Do you run a collar on your distributor shaft? I installed one and it reduced the wear rate on my bronze gear dramatically by limiting the up and down movement of the gear.I was going to have my next gear cryogenicaly treated, but ended up using the melanized gear when i switched over to a new cam. I also installed a Milodon oil pump, which is claimed to take less power to spin at any given rpm.

20200718_171815 (Large).jpg21814.jpg

1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: jbc426] #2908309
04/09/21 06:48 AM
04/09/21 06:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,017
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Tulsa OK
I don't know if you can do it on a big block or not but on my small block I drilled a small hole in the plug at the end of the galley, that hole squirts pressurized oil directly on the gear. I don't know if this will help or not because its a recent modification but I am sure it can't hurt. It doesn't have to be a big hole at all. I don't recall the size I used but I tried a few different sizes and was alarmed at the volume of oil that came out while pre-oiling. IIRC I used the smallest drill bit that I could use with a hand drill going into steel.

Also running thinner oil helps work that gear less.


Last edited by Bad340fish; 04/09/21 06:49 AM.

68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: 70Drop] #2908386
04/09/21 12:13 PM
04/09/21 12:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
440Jim Offline
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440Jim  Offline
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NC
Is this what race roller cam guys are running now-a-days?
Crane distributor gear - LINK


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: 440Jim] #2908388
04/09/21 12:19 PM
04/09/21 12:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 687
Southern Alberta
Uberpube Offline
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Southern Alberta
Reading a lot about this issue while I wait for head gaskets. I have a milodon bronze gear, thinking I should buy the melanized gear instead, but has anyone run it with the MP hv pump? This drive gear issue worries me a bit, this engine will see -30 degree temperatures where even 5w30 flows like molasses, way more load on the drive gear at low temperatures.
I am going to fit the cam up and see what the gear mesh and lash are like.

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: 440Jim] #2908399
04/09/21 01:01 PM
04/09/21 01:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,661
Wichita
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GY3 Offline
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Wichita
Originally Posted by 440Jim
Is this what race roller cam guys are running now-a-days?
Crane distributor gear - LINK


That's what I'm running! Hundreds of dragstrip passes, over 7,000 miles and showing virtually no wear.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: jbc426] #2908400
04/09/21 01:06 PM
04/09/21 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 223
California
70Drop Offline OP
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California
Originally Posted by jbc426
Do you run a collar on your distributor shaft? I installed one and it reduced the wear rate on my bronze gear dramatically by limiting the up and down movement of the gear.I was going to have my next gear cryogenicaly treated, but ended up using the melanized gear when i switched over to a new cam. I also installed a Milodon oil pump, which is claimed to take less power to spin at any given rpm.


I'm running a collar. It helps keep my timing stable, but I'm not sure if it's helped with gear wear

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: 70Drop] #2908402
04/09/21 01:08 PM
04/09/21 01:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,832
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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S.E. Michigan
Howard's sells just the gear (without the shaft) for $76.95.

Inexplicably, Howards uses the same marketing photograph as CAT uses.

The CAT part is $19.95, free shipping.

You have to press the gear off and on, yourself.

I wouldn't be super surprised to learn that not only is the marketing photograph the same, but the part itself just might be the same too.

I should probably buy them both and see.

The MP part used to be manufactured locally in Mt. Clemens MI, but I am not sure about nowadays, and the "made in" sticker might have only referred
to assembly and packaging....for all I know it may have had a $19.95 imported
gear on it all along.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: 70Drop] #2908406
04/09/21 01:15 PM
04/09/21 01:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
Both the the Slant 6 and Chevy stovebolt cam drives appear to benefit by a pressure squirt directly to the mating surfaces.
I have a feeling (and no more than that) that the rotating gears' centrifugal force tends to spin off any splash oil, and more may decrease surface temperature.
Metering sizes: anything above .030" is supposed to be safer from debris floating in the oil which may block it.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: polyspheric] #2908469
04/09/21 05:22 PM
04/09/21 05:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,851
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
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Ontario, Canada
Quote
The CAT part is $19.95, free shipping.


Talk is cheap ... post a link !!

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: Stanton] #2908490
04/09/21 07:08 PM
04/09/21 07:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
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back in Georgia
Put marking compound on the new one and look at the pattern. You can't move the bushing hole, but you can move the cam forward, or backwards, and the gear up or down. When it's all centered, you'll have way less play, and way less wear. No different than the diff

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: dthemi] #2908499
04/09/21 07:35 PM
04/09/21 07:35 PM
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Posts: 9,811
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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My used gear has 700+ passes on it. Looks fine.
Doug

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: dvw] #2908511
04/09/21 08:17 PM
04/09/21 08:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 687
Southern Alberta
Uberpube Offline
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Southern Alberta
Originally Posted by dvw
My used gear has 700+ passes on it. Looks fine.
Doug

What material, what oil pump?

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: Uberpube] #2908527
04/09/21 09:28 PM
04/09/21 09:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,687
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
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6PakBee  Offline
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North Dakota
I know this is AMC but it illustrates what lengths AMC went to when it came to lubricating the oil pump drive gear.

AMC Oiling Video


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: 6PakBee] #2908529
04/09/21 09:34 PM
04/09/21 09:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,851
Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Quote
but you can move the cam forward, or backwards, and the gear up or down.


This accomplishes absolutely nothing on helical cut gears.The clearance is what it is. The only way to adjust clearance is with a gear that's cut oversize or undersize. And the same applies to straight-cut gears.

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: Uberpube] #2908531
04/09/21 09:36 PM
04/09/21 09:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,403
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
Worthy
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Michigan
I trashed one with only 3k street miles and a couple strip passes. I was running 20W50 Brad Penn the whole time and never even thought about it. Was recommended, just like in this thread, that I check contact pattern on the new gear before running it. Haven't done that yet.

20201129_160511.jpg

1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: MarkZ] #2908558
04/09/21 11:10 PM
04/09/21 11:10 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,955
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
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Apollo, PA.
I saw one melonized gear used once on a solid roller....small block chevy, it put shattered hardened gear through out the engine, I'll never use one . my twocents

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: Uberpube] #2908595
04/10/21 05:15 AM
04/10/21 05:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,811
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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MI, usa
Originally Posted by Uberpube
Originally Posted by dvw
My used gear has 700+ passes on it. Looks fine.
Doug

What material, what oil pump?
\
Bonze gear. Indy single line pump cover with the Melling thick rotor pump. 5w20/30 JR1 synthetic. Cam endplay is controlled with a Jessel belt dive.
Doug

Re: I hate bronze oil pump gears! [Re: dvw] #2908645
04/10/21 09:18 AM
04/10/21 09:18 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,955
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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Apollo, PA.
Originally Posted by dvw
Originally Posted by Uberpube
Originally Posted by dvw
My used gear has 700+ passes on it. Looks fine.
Doug

What material, what oil pump?
\
Bonze gear. Indy single line pump cover with the Melling thick rotor pump. 5w20/30 JR1 synthetic. Cam endplay is controlled with a Jessel belt dive.
Doug


Maybe thrust has some thing to do with it I have a Milodon gear drive that sets thrust of the cam and the bronze gear in my 512 is sill in good shape too.

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