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Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: BDW] #2907654
04/07/21 11:42 AM
04/07/21 11:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,304
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
I'm tired...Very tired.
larrymopar360  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,304
Central Florida
Originally Posted by BDW
I put on a Fitech system several years ago and its been great.
Is that now out of favor?
I have a FiTech also. I have the Fuel Command Center under hood, and I guess those can be a bit problematic (the pump) exposed to heat. I went through two. It seems to be fine now though. I've protected it a bit with some heat wrap also. Mine is on my '89 Diplomat AHB and finding another gas tank that I could use a pump in wasn't working so that's why I have FCC. I'd prefer the sumped fuel pump instead to eliminate heat issues with FCC.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: PLUM_72] #2907676
04/07/21 12:44 PM
04/07/21 12:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,220
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted by PLUM_72
I am assuming there are headers on the engine. Those with EFI experience, are your typical headers sealed well enough for adding an O2 sensor? Or are we also talking header upgrade to a premium header with O2 bungs already installed?


Most headers should be fine for EFI. Race headers with slip tubes are a problem but street headers should be okay. The O2 bungs can go in the head pipes rather than in the collector. The harness from the Sniper should be long enough to reach down to the head pipes.

Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: DaveRS23] #2907704
04/07/21 02:06 PM
04/07/21 02:06 PM
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Posts: 563
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80fbody Offline
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[quote=DaveRS23][quote=MadMatt][quote=DaveRS23
Most potential EFI purchasers are exaggerating the advantages of EFI because they are comparing the EFI to an un-tuned or faulty carb.

I will say I can tune a carb well and the car ran great prior to the EFI but there is a noticeable improvement in idle quality and power around town. Would it make more power on the dyno. Not that car I care to dyno but keeps the plugs alot nicer from early spring, thru hot summer and back to cool weather.

It's definitely not a good choice for those that have carb problems. You need to be good at problem solving before slapping on the Sniper or you'll be cursing Holley and it's really not their fault. Some should stick to driving their daily toyota. I hear it all the time on facebook..


EDIT: This was not directed at the OP in any way.

Last edited by 80fbody; 04/07/21 02:09 PM.
Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: AndyF] #2907749
04/07/21 03:19 PM
04/07/21 03:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 691
Meridian, ID
MadMatt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Yah, no reason to change out the parts if they are working. The new stuff is more advanced and less expensive but since you already have parts might as well use them. You can probably clean up the plumbing a little bit by moving the regulator. I'd put it on the return side of the system rather than on the pressure side but it should work either way.

Be super careful when you install the Sniper wiring. You have to keep all Sniper wires away from the high voltage plug and coil wires. The Sniper will go crazy if a spark plug wire lays on top of a Sniper wire. You need at least a few inches of air space between Sniper wires and any spark plug wires. You'll also need high quality resistance wires and resistor plugs. I use Firecore 50 plug wires on all of my installs.


Thanks again for all the info and input, I REALLY appreciate it! One more question, have you installed these systems on dual plane manifolds and have you had any issues? Do you think a carb spacer is needed on a dual plane?


Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: 80fbody] #2907758
04/07/21 03:36 PM
04/07/21 03:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 691
Meridian, ID
MadMatt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by 80fbody
[quote=DaveRS23][quote=MadMatt][quote=DaveRS23
Most potential EFI purchasers are exaggerating the advantages of EFI because they are comparing the EFI to an un-tuned or faulty carb.

I will say I can tune a carb well and the car ran great prior to the EFI but there is a noticeable improvement in idle quality and power around town. Would it make more power on the dyno. Not that car I care to dyno but keeps the plugs alot nicer from early spring, thru hot summer and back to cool weather.

It's definitely not a good choice for those that have carb problems. You need to be good at problem solving before slapping on the Sniper or you'll be cursing Holley and it's really not their fault. Some should stick to driving their daily toyota. I hear it all the time on facebook..


EDIT: This was not directed at the OP in any way.


I hear what you're saying, and I agree. I think I do a decent job of tuning a carb, and I also had the carb tuned on a chassis dyno several years back. It makes good power and torque, no problem starting it, and it idles pretty well once it warms up and has terrific throttle response. But I think it can be better with EFI, especially in the variety of weather and elevations it sees. It seems overly sensitive to changes in the ambient temperature, getting "fat" when the weather is hot and occasionally dieseling when I shut it off. I've upgraded the brakes, suspension, A/C, and transmission to modern standards, so I can't see why I shouldn't do the same for fuel delivery.


Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: MadMatt] #2907776
04/07/21 05:10 PM
04/07/21 05:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,220
Oregon
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Oregon
I've run the Sniper on a dual plane intake. It works just fine on a dual plane but it might work better with a small open spacer. There isn't a big difference between fuel/air flow with a throttle body and a carb. In both cases you have a mixture of air and fuel flowing out of the base and into the manifold. So whatever works with a carb tends to work with a throttle body.

As far as your other point on EFI performance you are correct, EFI will work much better in terms of automatically adjusting the air fuel mixture for different altitudes and weather conditions. Throttle body EFI will not make more power than a good carb but it should provide better driveability, especially if you add a Hyperspark distributor and use the full computer controlled timing feature.

The data logger is a huge advantage which most people never even talk about. Once you learn how to use the data logger you'll be able to solve all sorts of issues that have nothing to do with the EFI system. A super Sniper with the extra inputs can be used as a simple general purpose data logger. I use mine to monitor oil pressure, fuel pressure and crank case pressure. You can also monitor pressure in the cooling system or brake pressure or line pressure in an automatic transmission.

Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: AndyF] #2907814
04/07/21 07:40 PM
04/07/21 07:40 PM
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Posts: 563
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I wish i had sprung for the Super Sniper for the reasons Andy mentioned. Definitely some added benefits. Certainly not required though. The small open spacer helps the IAC motor in the back. The port ends up right above the divider I believe so getting it some space helps. Some have mentioned a "whistling" when installing directly on top of a dual plane. As I mentioned, I think even a 1/2" phenolic spacer would solve that problem if you can run one. If not and you have the intake off, trimming the divider down some would help I'm sure.

Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: AndyF] #2907852
04/07/21 09:59 PM
04/07/21 09:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 691
Meridian, ID
MadMatt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by AndyF
I've run the Sniper on a dual plane intake. It works just fine on a dual plane but it might work better with a small open spacer. There isn't a big difference between fuel/air flow with a throttle body and a carb. In both cases you have a mixture of air and fuel flowing out of the base and into the manifold. So whatever works with a carb tends to work with a throttle body.

As far as your other point on EFI performance you are correct, EFI will work much better in terms of automatically adjusting the air fuel mixture for different altitudes and weather conditions. Throttle body EFI will not make more power than a good carb but it should provide better driveability, especially if you add a Hyperspark distributor and use the full computer controlled timing feature.

The data logger is a huge advantage which most people never even talk about. Once you learn how to use the data logger you'll be able to solve all sorts of issues that have nothing to do with the EFI system. A super Sniper with the extra inputs can be used as a simple general purpose data logger. I use mine to monitor oil pressure, fuel pressure and crank case pressure. You can also monitor pressure in the cooling system or brake pressure or line pressure in an automatic transmission.


I'm excited at the idea of having the computer control the timing. I know that with a computer you can run curves that would never be possible with "physical" advance. Can you offer any sort of insight into what sort of curves you have used or how you go about selecting a curve? If I remember correctly, I am currently running 34 degrees total advance with it all in by 2400 rpm. My Dart is light (about 3100 lbs) and with the 3:55 gears and the 2.87 first gear in the TKO knock is pretty much a non-issue with premium gas.


Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: MadMatt] #2907863
04/07/21 10:36 PM
04/07/21 10:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 299
Ontario, Canada
RealWing Offline
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Ontario, Canada
I'm putting a Sniper on my 69 340 Cuda. I checked with Holley and a dual plane is OK as long as you cut down the centre divider if present.
This is an Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold (7176) showing how I cut down the divider.

IMG_6563_1280x719.JPG

1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2015 BMW K1600 GTL
Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: MadMatt] #2907900
04/08/21 12:38 AM
04/08/21 12:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,220
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted by MadMatt
Originally Posted by AndyF
I've run the Sniper on a dual plane intake. It works just fine on a dual plane but it might work better with a small open spacer. There isn't a big difference between fuel/air flow with a throttle body and a carb. In both cases you have a mixture of air and fuel flowing out of the base and into the manifold. So whatever works with a carb tends to work with a throttle body.

As far as your other point on EFI performance you are correct, EFI will work much better in terms of automatically adjusting the air fuel mixture for different altitudes and weather conditions. Throttle body EFI will not make more power than a good carb but it should provide better driveability, especially if you add a Hyperspark distributor and use the full computer controlled timing feature.

The data logger is a huge advantage which most people never even talk about. Once you learn how to use the data logger you'll be able to solve all sorts of issues that have nothing to do with the EFI system. A super Sniper with the extra inputs can be used as a simple general purpose data logger. I use mine to monitor oil pressure, fuel pressure and crank case pressure. You can also monitor pressure in the cooling system or brake pressure or line pressure in an automatic transmission.


I'm excited at the idea of having the computer control the timing. I know that with a computer you can run curves that would never be possible with "physical" advance. Can you offer any sort of insight into what sort of curves you have used or how you go about selecting a curve? If I remember correctly, I am currently running 34 degrees total advance with it all in by 2400 rpm. My Dart is light (about 3100 lbs) and with the 3:55 gears and the 2.87 first gear in the TKO knock is pretty much a non-issue with premium gas.


It really depends on the cam. The bigger the cam then the more timing you put into the engine at idle. The nice thing about a Sniper setup is that you can change the ignition curve with just a few keystrokes. You don't have to take a distributor apart and play with weights or springs. If 34 total is working for you then just try some different numbers for idle and then smooth out the slope between those points. I'd suggest something around 40 to 45 degrees of timing for cruising down the freeway.

You can test all of this in the car by hooking up the laptop and going for a drive. Drive down the freeway at cruise and have someone change the timing numbers as you drive and see how the engine feels. Typically you can dial in the cruise timing in just a few miles of driving. Then find a long hill to drive up and make sure that it doesn't ping or knock and you should be good to go.

Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: RealWing] #2908061
04/08/21 03:27 PM
04/08/21 03:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 691
Meridian, ID
MadMatt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by RealWing
I'm putting a Sniper on my 69 340 Cuda. I checked with Holley and a dual plane is OK as long as you cut down the centre divider if present.
This is an Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold (7176) showing how I cut down the divider.


That's the same manifold I have. How did you make the cut?


Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: MadMatt] #2908087
04/08/21 04:53 PM
04/08/21 04:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 299
Ontario, Canada
RealWing Offline
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Took it to my friend down the street who has a Bridgeport milling machine!!!!


1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2015 BMW K1600 GTL
Re: EFI upgrade for LA motor? [Re: RealWing] #2908103
04/08/21 06:08 PM
04/08/21 06:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 691
Meridian, ID
MadMatt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by RealWing
Took it to my friend down the street who has a Bridgeport milling machine!!!!


That's definitely the best way to do it!


Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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