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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#2904810
04/01/21 04:41 AM
04/01/21 04:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,438
Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
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Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,438
Michigan
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Personally, I'm disgusted by the absolute useless garbage they ladle into cars today. Automatic Braking; Radar-Guided Cruise Control; One-button parallel parking..... Those are all the things a person should learn when driving. If they can't do those things: they shouldn't be driving!!! I refuse to pay money for something I'll never use.
I almost think we need something revolutionary. A modern Model T. Something that provides good, reliable, comfortable transportation at a reasonable price. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer younger drivers: A) we've practically priced them OUT of the market. Anything older and *cool* is a small fortune; and anything modern and reliable is..... a small fortune. The average kid making minimum wage would have to save every penny he earned for 2-3 years to buy a used chunk of $hit.
I think we need to go back to crank windows; manual adjusted seats, manual steering. Hell, my first car was an '82 Honda Civic! It had all those things, a snippy little motor, 5 speed gearbox and ran for 2 weeks on $12 worth of gas. I think the federal regulations on cars too has choked them out of the market. Making something small and fuel efficient isn't going to be 5-star crash rated; hence the gigantic bro-dozers people drive today.
We need to get back to basics. Could you imagine the fuel economy of something like an '82 Civic with a MODERN, fuel-injected engine??? But some Ralph Nader / Karen type would complain "it's unsafe" and destroy any chance it had.
Agree with this 100%. My wife bought a new CRV last year. Has all of the whistles and bells. Lane departure, Honda safety sense, blah, blah, blah. I shut as much of the garbage off as I could. I DETEST the infotainment screen. ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS TURN THE AIR CONDITIONING ON...not set 47 different zones, modulate this, adjust that. I'm an engineer by trade and I 100% know what the first thing to fail will be. It would not be crank windows and manual seats. I wrote a letter to Honda asking them to bring back the 1999 CRV (which my daughter still has for a winter beater). The absolute pinnacle (in my opinion) of the vehicle. Simple...reliable.....no BS. Yes, the new one gets great gas mileage, but I can say that as soon as we creep up on the end of the warranty cycle, it will be gone.
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: oldjonny]
#2904918
04/01/21 12:49 PM
04/01/21 12:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,999
Salem
Grizzly
Moparts Proctologist
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Moparts Proctologist
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,999
Salem
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I predicted on here when the Dart and 200 were cancelled that Chrysler was going to get caught with their pants down when fuel prices went up. As usual, the Mo' Farts knew I was right, but you guys argued with Me anyway. Looked at the pumps lately?  At least it's not just Chrysler that will be sitting looking at miles of 4 door trucks and SUV's unsold: Blunder Motors and Ford are going to get cut off at the knees too. 
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: a12rag]
#2905072
04/01/21 08:09 PM
04/01/21 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267
Connecticut
1972CudaV21
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267
Connecticut
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Times are changing...kids today will want electric cars tomorrow.
China is the enemy.
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: 1972CudaV21]
#2905077
04/01/21 08:21 PM
04/01/21 08:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,639
San Jose,CA
migsBIG
YouTube is my go-to news source
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YouTube is my go-to news source
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,639
San Jose,CA
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Times are changing...kids today will want electric cars tomorrow. Weird. Every time we’re out with old cars at a meet, the pass all the electric cars and go right to the classics. That happened in the 70’s electric/fuel saver cars were all around, but ignored by everyone. Then the motor swaps started and every south rather have an induction sticking through their hoods than mileage for their rides. Electric cars are here to stay, but there will always be a market for fuel powered vehicles.
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: beatgoeson]
#2905106
04/01/21 09:28 PM
04/01/21 09:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,378
Massachusetts
Faust
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,378
Massachusetts
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I am saddened by the loss of American cars. But I do wonder about the future for kids. Someone above mentioned that it would take three years pay for a low wage kid to buy any worthwhile car. I expect that they should diminish in value quickly. All of the computer controls will be the death of them. For instance, I have an '05 Volvo wagon, that I like a lot and have had for a long time. Recently, I lost high beams. The high beam relay is now built into the "Electronic Control Module". OK, $900 for the module, $300 for stealer to reprogram, and I didn't even ask about labor to replace it. So, something over $1200 and what have I regained? High beams, amazing. Fortunately I was a "car kid". I installed a "radio shack" switch, ran power to the high beam fuse and now I have high beams (but inconvenient). Still, it is reasonable to expect a relay to fail, so you build it into a $900 module where it is not independently serviceable. Great. No wonder the Consumer Magazines recommend that you get out of a "luxury" car when the warranty expires.
It was all made clear to me years ago. I was at an auto show and was looking over the '93 Seville with the Northstar (I shouldn't even write that word). The motor was transverse and I mentioned to the salesman that it must be quite a job to replace spark plugs. He said "they last 100,000 miles". I mentioned that sooner or later they would need replacement. He replied "We don't sell used cars". I guess Cadillac survived the Northstar with a pretty good hit to their reputation (some remember the 4-6-8). Then they gave us the 3.6. I really don't know who was running GM, but as they say "When small men cast long shadows, the sun is going down".
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: Faust]
#2905119
04/01/21 10:03 PM
04/01/21 10:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,318
Southern Maryland
klunick
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,318
Southern Maryland
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You guys would not believe what my 20 year old was looking at today. 2005 Lincoln Town Car. Hmmm. Big car, rides nice, plenty of leg room and a V8 all for about 10k with under 100k miles.
67 Barracuda FB
69 Superbee
"Southern Maryland: If you want a good looking woman, you had better bring her with you"
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: klunick]
#2905128
04/01/21 10:28 PM
04/01/21 10:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,941
WI
Dcuda69
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,941
WI
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I'm an instructor at a tech college. We have a 2019 Cadillac CT6 that we use for training. Absolutely beautiful car! I sure wouldn't want to own it after warranty. Twin turbo 3.0, 4 wheel steer, super cruise, auto sun screens, auto park, heat/cooled/massage seats, power tilt/telescope column,night vision, 360 camera, active suspension......the list goes on and on. Put a scan tool on it and scroll through the never ending list of "modules" and the data/codes/functions they provide! It currently has a long range radar module down which produces a crap ton of comm codes and driver assist issues.
Anyone want to hop in and diagnose that? Yet we all [censored] about dealer labor rates and dealers pay the "mechanics"(that seriously need to be refereed to as technicians) $20-$30/hour. It'll get to the point we'll be glad to find someone to work on this stuff at $100/hour. It's mostly high end stuff now but will be mainstream VERY soon.
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: oldjonny]
#2905148
04/01/21 11:02 PM
04/01/21 11:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,810
Between Houston & Galveston TX
SattyNoCar
Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile
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Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,810
Between Houston & Galveston TX
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LOL...I used to be in the same boat. Truthfully, once I bought a Toyleta, I will never go back to the other brands for daily drivers. 280K and still not a squeak or a rattle. None, zippo. I get that they are not all perfect, but when I see my buddies dealing with their GM garbage with virtually no miles (in comparison) I just laugh.
I've had a couple toyotas through the years, and while dependable, they rusted much faster than anything else and were the most boring vehicles I've ever owned. LOL. If by 'boring' you mean that you do not get to personally know the service department manager and the entire staff at the dealership, then yes, boring. I finally went to the dealer at about 250K miles and asked the service manager if there was anything that I really needed to do on the car to keep it going. He laughed and said keep driving it and no. I will take 'boring' all day long for my DD I had a similar situation recently. My Mom has a 2015 Corolla that she bought new. Car just turned, 40K. When I last took it to the dealer for a recall fix and oil change (at 38K), I asked if there was anything else we needed to do to the car, and he said "yeah, drive it more!".  Someone mentioned the electronics are gonna be the downfall of vehicles as they age. I'm running into this with my '93 Dakota. I understand parts can't be kept around forever, but, what is someone supposed to do 20-30 or more years down the road?
John
The dream is dead, long live the dream.......😥
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: SattyNoCar]
#2905177
04/02/21 01:52 AM
04/02/21 01:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,793
Castlegar, BC, Canada
That AMC Guy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,793
Castlegar, BC, Canada
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Someone mentioned the electronics are gonna be the downfall of vehicles as they age. I'm running into this with my '93 Dakota. I understand parts can't be kept around forever, but, what is someone supposed to do 20-30 or more years down the road?
That's going to be another thing! Support!! With my '87 Daytona, the dealerships are useless for anything. All parts went NS1 years ago. The 80's cars are currently in no-man's land where the parent corp. no longer supports them and no aftermarket companies have bothered to take them under their wing. I guarantee you're going to start seeing GOOD examples of these cars rocket up in price very shortly. It's already begun. Hell, look at what a Pontiac Fiero is worth today! But back to what I really wanted to comment about : my daily driver is a 2004 Hyundai Tiburon. Granted, at this point it's 17 years old, but the dealer again will have nothing to do with it in as far as parts go. I can't even get FLOOR MATS for the damned thing anymore. What's worse is that there ARE parts warehouses in Korea that stock a healthy variety of parts for these cars, but the dealership, since it's no longer obligated to support the car, flat out REFUSES to. My local dealer uses aftermarket parts from Lordco, Napa, etc. But then again, I don't know if it's just my local dealer that's staffed with idiots (which it is) or whether it's company policy. But in my mind.... the car isn't that old. You'd think parts would be available. I guess I should have bought spare floor mats when they were available.
Bloody Mary, Full of Vodka, Blessed art thou among cocktails....
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: 1972CudaV21]
#2905197
04/02/21 07:07 AM
04/02/21 07:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,954
Greenville, PA
redraptor
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,954
Greenville, PA
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Times are changing...kids today will want electric cars tomorrow. Yep. Tesla and GM are gonna give it to them. So for now enjoy your 700 hp trucks and suvs.
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: klunick]
#2905202
04/02/21 07:30 AM
04/02/21 07:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,775
ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,775
ohio
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You guys would not believe what my 20 year old was looking at today. 2005 Lincoln Town Car. Hmmm. Big car, rides nice, plenty of leg room and a V8 all for about 10k with under 100k miles. Honestly I'd rethink the Lincoln. Yes they are based on the Panther platform but there's enough oddball parts that they can get pricey to repair. For a long term keeper, a Crown Victoria or Grand Marquis is a better choice. Plus they can be reskinned to look like a 2nd generation Charger.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: ruderunner]
#2905226
04/02/21 08:33 AM
04/02/21 08:33 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,318
Southern Maryland
klunick
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,318
Southern Maryland
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I don't think he was serously considering the Lincoln but it was cool that he considered it. I have the 69 Cyclone and yeah, just enough oddball stuff to cause problems finding parts.
On the DD topic. My DD is an 09 Corolla basic. It has one setting for intermitent wipers, 140k, rolldown windows, no power lock doors. I mean it is basic. My aunt laughed when I bought it and said she didn't think you could find a car like that anymore. Yeah, well guess what will not be breaking. At the rate of mileage, I will probably own it for at least 15 more years unless I sell it to my 16 YO.. The 20 YO has an 07 corolla. I've tried to tell him to own it until it dies. Stickshift car.
67 Barracuda FB
69 Superbee
"Southern Maryland: If you want a good looking woman, you had better bring her with you"
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: Faust]
#2905252
04/02/21 09:44 AM
04/02/21 09:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,438
Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
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Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,438
Michigan
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I am saddened by the loss of American cars. But I do wonder about the future for kids. Someone above mentioned that it would take three years pay for a low wage kid to buy any worthwhile car. I expect that they should diminish in value quickly. All of the computer controls will be the death of them. For instance, I have an '05 Volvo wagon, that I like a lot and have had for a long time. Recently, I lost high beams. The high beam relay is now built into the "Electronic Control Module". OK, $900 for the module, $300 for stealer to reprogram, and I didn't even ask about labor to replace it. So, something over $1200 and what have I regained? High beams, amazing. Fortunately I was a "car kid". I installed a "radio shack" switch, ran power to the high beam fuse and now I have high beams (but inconvenient). Still, it is reasonable to expect a relay to fail, so you build it into a $900 module where it is not independently serviceable. Great. No wonder the Consumer Magazines recommend that you get out of a "luxury" car when the warranty expires.
It was all made clear to me years ago. I was at an auto show and was looking over the '93 Seville with the Northstar (I shouldn't even write that word). The motor was transverse and I mentioned to the salesman that it must be quite a job to replace spark plugs. He said "they last 100,000 miles". I mentioned that sooner or later they would need replacement. He replied "We don't sell used cars". I guess Cadillac survived the Northstar with a pretty good hit to their reputation (some remember the 4-6-8). Then they gave us the 3.6. I really don't know who was running GM, but as they say "When small men cast long shadows, the sun is going down". I work for a company that builds test equipment. We support a large company that does most HVAC assemblies for a variety of manufacturers. With all of the added convenience features (i.e. I want a cool butt, warm knee, sub-cool crotch, cold right thigh BS, plus the same for the passenger) they modulate and control the ducting using a bunch of custom mechanical link arms tied to a BUNCH of motors. Worst one we ever tested was for the Germans...18 individual motors. All of them individually addressed on a communication BUS. Any of them can fail individually and oh, by the way, good luck getting to any of them to repair or replace. All of this mess is controlled by their own HVAC controller, which again is their own. Yea....once the warranty is gone, run fast and hard.
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: oldjonny]
#2905567
04/02/21 08:30 PM
04/02/21 08:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,775
ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,775
ohio
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I have a 1965 IH Scout. It has exactly 2 controls for hvac. 1 fan speed: off low high. 2 Mode: heat or defogger.
At nearly 60 years old, both work as intended.
It has manual crank windows, which still work as designed, 60 years later.
I have a 92 Dodge truck, the power door locks don't work. Otherwise everything else is ok, well except for the flaky TPS.
I have a 08 Charger. The dash is lit up like a Christmas tree, the remote trunk release doesn't work, the ac doesn't work (note it does work on the 92 Dodge) , the non sealed beam headlights full of condensation. ..
Heck my rust bucket plow truck has fewer things that don't work than the 08. Well, maybe you can count the drivers side headlight falling out because the bucket rusted apart. Heat and wipers work. Gauges work, doors w or, windows work, lights work.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: ruderunner]
#2905631
04/03/21 12:54 AM
04/03/21 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,142
Canada -- Posts: 4034 -Registe...
5thAve
Doesn't care what this says anyway
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Doesn't care what this says anyway
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,142
Canada -- Posts: 4034 -Registe...
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You guys would not believe what my 20 year old was looking at today. 2005 Lincoln Town Car. Hmmm. Big car, rides nice, plenty of leg room and a V8 all for about 10k with under 100k miles. Honestly I'd rethink the Lincoln. Yes they are based on the Panther platform but there's enough oddball parts that they can get pricey to repair. For a long term keeper, a Crown Victoria or Grand Marquis is a better choice. Plus they can be reskinned to look like a 2nd generation Charger. The only differences are the cosmetics and electronics like the rear park sensors, trunk closer etc that the Lincoln's have.
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