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Does anyone have their tires shaved? #2900994
03/20/21 08:51 AM
03/20/21 08:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,406
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,406
Albany, NY
Hey all..
Looking forward the the coming track season, hope you guys all have good ones..

Does anyone shave their tires to get them back to 'neutral', after they get worn on a bias - like after tracking on predominantly left turns.. Is this done? Is it recommended? Is it legal?

My situation is I have used my dedicated set of track tires for 5-6 track days and the right edges are wearing more than the left.
I have enough overall tread to get them back to 'neutral' wear by having them shaved.
... but I haven't heard of anyone doing it since I was in High School - a looong time ago, LOL.

- I have tweaked the front camber to get more even temperatures (and wear) across the tread.
- I don't believe there is anything I can do about the rear camber, rigid axle.
- I rotate my tires.
- I'm asking my local friends if they know of a shop that'll even do this sort of thing,

If the bottom line is to forget the shaving and just replace the tires, then I will do so, but I'm the sort to maximize useful life.
Thank you,
- Art


1965 Satellite hardtop 361/2bbl, console 727, open 2.76
1967 Satellite convert 383/4bbl, column 727, open 3.23
1975 Maserati Bora, US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd ZF man
1977 Maserati Khamsin, Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd ZF man
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 2.5L SOHC hemi V6, 5-spd man transaxle
2007 Aston Martin DB9, 6.0L DOHC V12, 6spd man transaxle
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2901180
03/20/21 08:32 PM
03/20/21 08:32 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,930
Florida
BDW Offline
master
BDW  Offline
master

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,930
Florida
Dismount and flip them on rim?

Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: BDW] #2901182
03/20/21 08:39 PM
03/20/21 08:39 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,446
South Bend
John Brown Offline
pro stock
John Brown  Offline
pro stock

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,446
South Bend
Pure Stock drag racers do it to their Polyglas tires if they don't have time to wear down a set and a race is coming up soon. Local circle burners have the equipment set up to do it.


July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: John Brown] #2901340
03/21/21 01:46 PM
03/21/21 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,732
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,732
So Cal
Autocross guys do it. Or at least used to do it.

Contact the local scca autocross club. They usually are sponsored by a tire shop/seller and if you get a lead from the club, make sure you tell the shop and give credit.


Last edited by autoxcuda; 03/21/21 01:46 PM.
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2901393
03/21/21 05:28 PM
03/21/21 05:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 338
Mequon, WI
G
gzig5 Offline
enthusiast
gzig5  Offline
enthusiast
G

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 338
Mequon, WI
Put the fronts on the back, do a couple burnouts, and call it good. That is a benefit of running a square setup.

Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2901491
03/22/21 08:06 AM
03/22/21 08:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,611
Trumussia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,611
Trumussia
I have never heard of tire shaving to correct a basically, it seems to me, an alignment/set-up deficiency, which may not be correctable easily.
Also seems to me, not much to be gained here, especially if there is a cost involved, the tire is wearing on one side heavily when the other side is likely not wearing at all, again due to likely camber? issues, that means you will not be gaining any additional tire contact in cornering by shaving, but might in a straight line. Normal shaving goals are for less weight, less tread squirm, less heat buildup.


If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: John Brown] #2901766
03/22/21 07:59 PM
03/22/21 07:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,755
Connecticut
1972CudaV21 Offline
master
1972CudaV21  Offline
master

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,755
Connecticut
Originally Posted by John Brown
Pure Stock drag racers do it to their Polyglas tires if they don't have time to wear down a set and a race is coming up soon. Local circle burners have the equipment set up to do it.


Pure Stock is allowed to shave their tires?


China is the enemy.
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: 1972CudaV21] #2901782
03/22/21 08:33 PM
03/22/21 08:33 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,446
South Bend
John Brown Offline
pro stock
John Brown  Offline
pro stock

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,446
South Bend
Originally Posted by 1972CudaV21
Originally Posted by John Brown
Pure Stock drag racers do it to their Polyglas tires if they don't have time to wear down a set and a race is coming up soon. Local circle burners have the equipment set up to do it.


Pure Stock is allowed to shave their tires?


It happens. Gotta keep them above the wear bars though.

Reproduction tires or radial tires only. No soft compound tires of any kind allowed. Retread tires are not allowed. Use of traction compounds or rubber-softening chemicals on tires is strictly prohibited. Suspicious tires will be durometered. You are allowed to run tires one size over stock, with G70s being the largest size allowed for cars with 70-series tires, and G60s the largest allowed for cars that came with 60-series tires. All four tires must be the same size. No 60-series tires will be allowed unless they were originally available for the car's year and model. 60-series tires must be run on 15-inch rims as they were originally. Cars built before the introduction of 70-series Polyglas or Wide Ovals are allowed to upgrade to 70-series of appropriate size.

https://www.psmcdr.com/rules

Ralph's rules may be slightly different, but I'll bet not a whole bunch.


July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2902314
03/24/21 11:01 AM
03/24/21 11:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,544
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,544
Brookeville, Md
Originally Posted by 67SATisfaction
Hey all..
Looking forward the the coming track season, hope you guys all have good ones..

Does anyone shave their tires to get them back to 'neutral', after they get worn on a bias - like after tracking on predominantly left turns.. Is this done? Is it recommended? Is it legal?

My situation is I have used my dedicated set of track tires for 5-6 track days and the right edges are wearing more than the left.
I have enough overall tread to get them back to 'neutral' wear by having them shaved.
... but I haven't heard of anyone doing it since I was in High School - a looong time ago, LOL.

- I have tweaked the front camber to get more even temperatures (and wear) across the tread.
- I don't believe there is anything I can do about the rear camber, rigid axle.
- I rotate my tires.
- I'm asking my local friends if they know of a shop that'll even do this sort of thing,

If the bottom line is to forget the shaving and just replace the tires, then I will do so, but I'm the sort to maximize useful life.
Thank you,
- Art



The problem with Mopar t-bar set-ups is that they are not as adjustable as one would like. Are they directional tires? Can you take any weight off the front end? How is your weight transfer. If you are braking heavy into the turns it is going to put extra stress on the tire.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2902326
03/24/21 11:43 AM
03/24/21 11:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,317
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch Offline
pro stock
Mopar Mitch  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,317
NW Chicago suburban area
Hello Art -- I used to have my tires shaved all the time for hi-level autocross competition... many years ago (70s, 80s, 90s)... and they can still be done by those who know how to do it. TIRE RACK shaves tires all the time... for the most serious competitors... and extra cost.

There are different reasons to do so:

1. Less tread depth = less block squirm = better transient handling
2. In the past, we were told that, additionally to above #1, the rubber compound progressively heats and cures to a steady hardness. So, as the tread depth wears away, the hardness stays steady. BUT, if you shave a tire, you'll get to a softer (more grippy) rubber density = better grip.
3. Less overall weight = fractional potential better lap times (autocross or track).

Shaving tires would ONLY be done with brand new tires... once they are worn, their balance changes and shaving is no longer applicable.

How fast do you want to go? Shaving costs extra $$ = fractions of seconds to go faster.

Some clubs have rules that strictly don't allow shaving. Realistically, it can be done, then drive and greak-in the tire... difficult to see and confirm IF it had been done.

If your tires are worn un-evenly, then swap them F-R, or else toss them and get new ones.


Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: Mopar Mitch] #2902544
03/24/21 11:39 PM
03/24/21 11:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,406
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,406
Albany, NY
Thanks all,

Great advice, alignment can be improved. But Mitch hit the real issue:
If shaving isn't appropriate for tires with a few seasons of wear, then I thank you for the input and this discussion is over. I need new tires.

(For entertainment purposes - I already conceived a back-door plan, besides the obvious "new tires":
- The club I race with is run by a good bunch of guys. I'll bribe to run us in the opposite direction on the track this year - BaddaBing! - I'll be racing the tires with the "better" side providing the most grip).

Originally Posted by Mopar Mitch
Hello Art -- I used to have my tires shaved all the time for hi-level autocross competition... many years ago (70s, 80s, 90s)... and they can still be done by those who know how to do it. TIRE RACK shaves tires all the time... for the most serious competitors... and extra cost.

There are different reasons to do so:

1. Less tread depth = less block squirm = better transient handling
2. In the past, we were told that, additionally to above #1, the rubber compound progressively heats and cures to a steady hardness. So, as the tread depth wears away, the hardness stays steady. BUT, if you shave a tire, you'll get to a softer (more grippy) rubber density = better grip.
3. Less overall weight = fractional potential better lap times (autocross or track).

Shaving tires would ONLY be done with brand new tires... once they are worn, their balance changes and shaving is no longer applicable.

How fast do you want to go? Shaving costs extra $$ = fractions of seconds to go faster.

Some clubs have rules that strictly don't allow shaving. Realistically, it can be done, then drive and greak-in the tire... difficult to see and confirm IF it had been done.

If your tires are worn un-evenly, then swap them F-R, or else toss them and get new ones.


Thanks Mitch and thanks Dean,

My only goal with this idea was just to get a few more "training" sessions out of the tires I have, not to get a competitive edge - yet.
I rotate my tires F-R every track session, so the uneven wear is the same on all 4.
There is some life left before they hit the wear markers.
I'm an amateur driver, and still improving skills.
My skill level gives me 0.5 second variations on a 0:54-0:55 sec lap time.
Each season, I usually focus the first two track dates (May & June) brushing up and learning.
The last date(s) I fine tune and push hard for my best times, after the summer heat has dropped (Sept & Oct).
This will be my 6th season tracking.
Gains are harder to find, but I was able to improve by 0.3 sec per year the past two years.
I did a bunch of things the first years, but not much has been done to improve the hardware of the car the past 3 years, just regular maintenance.
Therefore gains have come from improving my skill, alignment tweaks and careful tire pressure.

Cheers,
- Art

Here is what one of the tires looks like. Wear is mostly on the right (top of photo) half.
Sorry, not sure why the photo won't rotate properly.


1WCW27CWTX2WUixVsFQ9+w.jpg
Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 03/24/21 11:40 PM.

1965 Satellite hardtop 361/2bbl, console 727, open 2.76
1967 Satellite convert 383/4bbl, column 727, open 3.23
1975 Maserati Bora, US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd ZF man
1977 Maserati Khamsin, Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd ZF man
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 2.5L SOHC hemi V6, 5-spd man transaxle
2007 Aston Martin DB9, 6.0L DOHC V12, 6spd man transaxle
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2902652
03/25/21 11:57 AM
03/25/21 11:57 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,930
Florida
BDW Offline
master
BDW  Offline
master

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,930
Florida
Seems remounting, rebalancing and moving R to L would be easiest, cheapest solution?

Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2902843
03/25/21 11:25 PM
03/25/21 11:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,676
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
E
ek3 Offline
top fuel
ek3  Offline
top fuel
E

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,676
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
Originally Posted by 67SATisfaction
Thanks all,

Great advice, alignment can be improved. But Mitch hit the real issue:
If shaving isn't appropriate for tires with a few seasons of wear, then I thank you for the input and this discussion is over. I need new tires.

(For entertainment purposes - I already conceived a back-door plan, besides the obvious "new tires":
- The club I race with is run by a good bunch of guys. I'll bribe to run us in the opposite direction on the track this year - BaddaBing! - I'll be racing the tires with the "better" side providing the most grip).

Originally Posted by Mopar Mitch
Hello Art -- I used to have my tires shaved all the time for hi-level autocross competition... many years ago (70s, 80s, 90s)... and they can still be done by those who know how to do it. TIRE RACK shaves tires all the time... for the most serious competitors... and extra cost.

There are different reasons to do so:

1. Less tread depth = less block squirm = better transient handling
2. In the past, we were told that, additionally to above #1, the rubber compound progressively heats and cures to a steady hardness. So, as the tread depth wears away, the hardness stays steady. BUT, if you shave a tire, you'll get to a softer (more grippy) rubber density = better grip.
3. Less overall weight = fractional potential better lap times (autocross or track).

Shaving tires would ONLY be done with brand new tires... once they are worn, their balance changes and shaving is no longer applicable.

How fast do you want to go? Shaving costs extra $$ = fractions of seconds to go faster.

Some clubs have rules that strictly don't allow shaving. Realistically, it can be done, then drive and greak-in the tire... difficult to see and confirm IF it had been done.

If your tires are worn un-evenly, then swap them F-R, or else toss them and get new ones.


Thanks Mitch and thanks Dean,

My only goal with this idea was just to get a few more "training" sessions out of the tires I have, not to get a competitive edge - yet.
I rotate my tires F-R every track session, so the uneven wear is the same on all 4.
There is some life left before they hit the wear markers.
I'm an amateur driver, and still improving skills.
My skill level gives me 0.5 second variations on a 0:54-0:55 sec lap time.
Each season, I usually focus the first two track dates (May & June) brushing up and learning.
The last date(s) I fine tune and push hard for my best times, after the summer heat has dropped (Sept & Oct).
This will be my 6th season tracking.
Gains are harder to find, but I was able to improve by 0.3 sec per year the past two years.
I did a bunch of things the first years, but not much has been done to improve the hardware of the car the past 3 years, just regular maintenance.
Therefore gains have come from improving my skill, alignment tweaks and careful tire pressure.

Cheers,
- Art

Here is what one of the tires looks like. Wear is mostly on the right (top of photo) half.
Sorry, not sure why the photo won't rotate properly.

your tires are telling you what to do.... you need to correct the camber gain and loss and check toe , and confirm roll steering is good. just adding camber will not fix it. stagger in the will help some more rear than front... how the car enters a corner is -everything-.

Last edited by ek3; 03/25/21 11:28 PM.
Re: Does anyone have their tires shaved? [Re: ek3] #2922923
05/15/21 06:49 PM
05/15/21 06:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,406
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,406
Albany, NY
Originally Posted by ek3

your tires are telling you what to do.... you need to correct the camber gain and loss and check toe , and confirm roll steering is good. just adding camber will not fix it. stagger in the will help some more rear than front... how the car enters a corner is -everything-.


Thank you - I was told pretty much the exact same thing from an instructor/friend. I will learn.
- Art

Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 05/15/21 06:50 PM.

1965 Satellite hardtop 361/2bbl, console 727, open 2.76
1967 Satellite convert 383/4bbl, column 727, open 3.23
1975 Maserati Bora, US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd ZF man
1977 Maserati Khamsin, Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8, 5-spd ZF man
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 2.5L SOHC hemi V6, 5-spd man transaxle
2007 Aston Martin DB9, 6.0L DOHC V12, 6spd man transaxle






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