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Cold startup rattle? #2896505
03/06/21 04:35 PM
03/06/21 04:35 PM
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People's Republic of Kali
70runner Offline OP
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440-6, stealth heads, stock manifolds, SRP 10.5:1 forged pistons, Lunati 60303 cam/lifters, 10.2CR, starts and runs good. Brad Penn 15W-40 with Wix 51515 filters. Rattle lasts for approx 5sec. Before I pull intake to check lifters, hoping to get some opinion from the experts here. Rattle occurs after engine has sat for 6-7hrs. Cold startup below:


Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: 70runner] #2896514
03/06/21 04:41 PM
03/06/21 04:41 PM
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Hydraulic lifters is making that noise, it is draining oil out when sitting, maybe the little poppet check valve in the lifter has a small piece of trash stuck in it not letting is seal when shut off shruggy
How many miles do you have on the motor now?
If less than 500 miles I would drive it for a while longer, especially long trips, more than 50 miles at speeds above 2000 RPM to see if it will clean up scope
Good luck up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: 70runner] #2896585
03/06/21 09:04 PM
03/06/21 09:04 PM
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calrobb2000 Offline
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5 seconds, normal leave it alone !

Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: calrobb2000] #2896595
03/06/21 09:25 PM
03/06/21 09:25 PM
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ek3 Offline
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re -adjust them............... vacuum gauge will prove it.

Last edited by ek3; 03/06/21 09:27 PM.
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: ek3] #2896685
03/07/21 09:08 AM
03/07/21 09:08 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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tappets are bleeding down a little. it doesn't take much bleed down with a hydraulic tappet to get pretty noisey. i'd check the preload; you may need more.

Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: lewtot184] #2896703
03/07/21 10:34 AM
03/07/21 10:34 AM
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ThermoQuad Offline
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Try the yellow Jomar filter instead
Engine requires tuning - it should start much nicer, easier and idle quickly - that would help with the rattle too.

Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: ThermoQuad] #2896709
03/07/21 10:53 AM
03/07/21 10:53 AM
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jlatessa Offline
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If your clearances allow, maybe try a 10-30 and see
if it pumps up more quickly??

Joe

Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: jlatessa] #2896716
03/07/21 11:27 AM
03/07/21 11:27 AM
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Two things worry me, Lunatti and thick oil...

Been there, done that, its COWER-ROLLER, all the way for me now


Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!

There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: 70runner] #2896753
03/07/21 01:19 PM
03/07/21 01:19 PM
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jbc426 Offline
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What is your initial and total timing set at? Is your vacuum advance plugged into ported or manifold?


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: lewtot184] #2896813
03/07/21 04:23 PM
03/07/21 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
tappets are bleeding down a little. it doesn't take much bleed down with a hydraulic tappet to get pretty noisey. i'd check the preload; you may need more.


iagree

It still seems noisy to me, even after the initial "loud" 5 seconds after starting. That may be normal with that particular cam?

Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: jbc426] #2896897
03/07/21 10:06 PM
03/07/21 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jbc426
What is your initial and total timing set at? Is your vacuum advance plugged into ported or manifold?

What part about lifter noise have to do ignition timing? shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: lewtot184] #2896904
03/07/21 10:34 PM
03/07/21 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
tappets are bleeding down a little. it doesn't take much bleed down with a hydraulic tappet to get pretty noisey. i'd check the preload; you may need more.


Here's hoping you are right...so I don't need to pull the intake (stealth hds), replace lifters, and do a break in. Plan to remove valve covers, look for anything obvious, then check each lifter at cam base circle for slop with cold, not running engine. From my build notes, used custom length pushrods sized for .020 preload.

Originally Posted by jlatessa
If your clearances allow, maybe try a 10-30 and see
if it pumps up more quickly??


Tried this, the rattle got worse IIRC.

Last edited by 70runner; 03/07/21 10:36 PM.
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: 70runner] #2896933
03/07/21 11:42 PM
03/07/21 11:42 PM
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ek3 Offline
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Originally Posted by 70runner
Originally Posted by lewtot184
tappets are bleeding down a little. it doesn't take much bleed down with a hydraulic tappet to get pretty noisey. i'd check the preload; you may need more.


Here's hoping you are right...so I don't need to pull the intake (stealth hds), replace lifters, and do a break in. Plan to remove valve covers, look for anything obvious, then check each lifter at cam base circle for slop with cold, not running engine. From my build notes, used custom length pushrods sized for .020 preload. iagree i think pre load is your true issue . it looks like the engine runs/ idols rough to me... check with the cam on its base to be sure about the correct pushrod length..

Originally Posted by jlatessa
If your clearances allow, maybe try a 10-30 and see
if it pumps up more quickly??


Tried this, the rattle got worse IIRC.

Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: 70runner] #2896984
03/08/21 03:17 AM
03/08/21 03:17 AM
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I finish breaking in a new pump gas motor on my motor run in stand today, I had set the lifter preload at room temps. and knew that I would need to reset it with the motor warmed up, hot.
The heads and rocker arms are the Speed Master brand and version of the Eddy Victor with Speed Master bushed extrude aluminum 1.6 ratio rocker arm kit with 7/16 adjuster screws, the heads are CNC ported to 325 CC but they are not M.W. size intake ports.
I set the preload at 1/3 of a turn cold, I had free play on most of the rocker adjuster when warmed up and tried using 1/3 turn preload hot, that didn't work shock
That amount of preload would hold the valves open shock
I ended up having to use 1/8 turn preload hot to get it to start and run. I'll see what it does in the morning cold luck
I'm thinking the heads will shrink down when cold adding more preload and I'm hoping it starts and runs okay luck


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2896986
03/08/21 04:58 AM
03/08/21 04:58 AM
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jbc426 Offline
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by jbc426
What is your initial and total timing set at? Is your vacuum advance plugged into ported or manifold?

What part about lifter noise have to do ignition timing? shruggy


Nothing, Cab. Others already mentioned the possible solutions to that issue, but the motor sounds a bit lazy to my ear, and that mande me wonder about the timing he's running.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: jbc426] #2897005
03/08/21 08:04 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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.020" preload won't work if you're not using a race hydraulic tappet. plunger travel in the tappet should be around .210". the preload needs to be around 50% of plunger travel. if you have adjustable rockers with 3/8"-24 thread adjusters set the preload between 1 1/2-2 turns. that will give you somewhere between .060"-.090" preload. treat .060" as a minimum. factory pre-load with non-adjustable rockers was at least .100". a performance hydraulic cam will make a little noise due to the fast closing ramps and that can't be adjusted out. setting the preload to .090" should make a noticeable difference.

Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: 70runner] #2897029
03/08/21 09:52 AM
03/08/21 09:52 AM
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kwikblownhemi Offline
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Originally Posted by 70runner


Here's hoping you are right...so I don't need to pull the intake (stealth hds), replace lifters, and do a break in. Plan to remove valve covers, look for anything obvious, then check each lifter at cam base circle for slop with cold, not running engine. From my build notes, used custom length pushrods sized for .020 preload.



^^^
Stock, non-adjustable rockers?

Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: lewtot184] #2897034
03/08/21 10:07 AM
03/08/21 10:07 AM
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bee1971 Offline
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Reading his posts he never mentioned if running factory stamped rocker arms or aftermarket adjustable rocker arms



I had the exact same thing happen on a few Comp Cams Hydraulic Lifters when starting up - Stamped Steel Rocker Arms And Shafts / Sealed Power Made In The USA

Many many posts about these hydraulic lifters bleeding down , like mentioned already - Pulled the valve covers , removed the rocker arm assemblies

Inspection - Pulled the intake manifold - Pulled the lifters - Numerous compression checks , oil filters cut open that first summer

Found absolutely zero nothing

My noise totally went away on startup - Now again like mentioned already , just the sewing machine noise effect with these fast rate ramps is very hard to get used to

Comp XE 275 HL - Edelbrock E Street 75cc
10.5 Compression 383/432


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: kwikblownhemi] #2897035
03/08/21 10:09 AM
03/08/21 10:09 AM
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bee1971 Offline
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Originally Posted by kwikblownhemi
Originally Posted by 70runner


Here's hoping you are right...so I don't need to pull the intake (stealth hds), replace lifters, and do a break in. Plan to remove valve covers, look for anything obvious, then check each lifter at cam base circle for slop with cold, not running engine. From my build notes, used custom length pushrods sized for .020 preload.



^^^
Stock, non-adjustable rockers?



Was typing the same question when you posted


1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Cold startup rattle? [Re: bee1971] #2897099
03/08/21 12:45 PM
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doesn't make any difference what rockers are used; preload factor remains the same. the question may be is "there any adjustment in the valve train?".

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