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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: NANKET]
#2893237
02/25/21 11:08 PM
02/25/21 11:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
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I can usually tell what torque to apply after many many years of experience as well, however, every one of the front suspension bolts on my current '69 Barracuda restoration are torqued to spec.
Jim
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: Sniper]
#2893319
02/26/21 10:40 AM
02/26/21 10:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,695
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,695
North Dakota
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Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.
I'm not so sure that applies to all people. When I was going to college I worked part time at the local Chrysler dealer. One thing I did was new car pre-delivery preparation (dealer prep). One of the items on the checklist was to make sure the front wheel bearings were adjusted properly, So I was working on a new car and had the torque wrench out adjusting the front wheel bearings as per the FSM procedure. The senior mechanic walked over and asked me what I was doing. Told him, he laughed that you could do that by hand, didn't need a torque wrench. This is 1974 and I'm young, dumb, and headstrong so I proceed to tell him it can't be done. Now this is a guy that has worked on Mopars since 1947 and has done it all. So it ended up in a challenge. I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again and over the next year I learned a lot from that old fart. Passed away about 20 years go. Great loss of talent. Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2893374
02/26/21 01:17 PM
02/26/21 01:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,225
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,225
Looking for a way out of Middl...
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Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.
Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head. I'm about to do that on a 440 Chrysler 300. My plan was a plumbing bar clamp. I would be very interested in his way.
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: Sniper]
#2893392
02/26/21 02:17 PM
02/26/21 02:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,941
WI
Dcuda69
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,941
WI
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Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.
Yep! Our Snap on guy did a demo for our classes at school. None, I mean NONE of us were right on and that includes a few of us with 30+ years turning wrenches. Like I said earlier....new stuff is WAY different than stuff built 50 years ago. If you're not torquing stuff you're begging for come backs.
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2893393
02/26/21 02:20 PM
02/26/21 02:20 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,213
nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,213
nowhere
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Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.
I'm not so sure that applies to all people. When I was going to college I worked part time at the local Chrysler dealer. One thing I did was new car pre-delivery preparation (dealer prep). One of the items on the checklist was to make sure the front wheel bearings were adjusted properly, So I was working on a new car and had the torque wrench out adjusting the front wheel bearings as per the FSM procedure. The senior mechanic walked over and asked me what I was doing. Told him, he laughed that you could do that by hand, didn't need a torque wrench. This is 1974 and I'm young, dumb, and headstrong so I proceed to tell him it can't be done. Now this is a guy that has worked on Mopars since 1947 and has done it all. So it ended up in a challenge. I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again and over the next year I learned a lot from that old fart. Passed away about 20 years go. Great loss of talent. Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head. Maybe you need to go back and reread how to set front wheel bearing preload. Having just converted my 51 from the original style setup to the later style, such as used in 74, there is no torque on the bearings when you are done.
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: IMGTX]
#2893395
02/26/21 02:27 PM
02/26/21 02:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,695
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,695
North Dakota
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Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.
Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head. I'm about to do that on a 440 Chrysler 300. My plan was a plumbing bar clamp. I would be very interested in his way. IIRC what Vern did was use a bar and a block of wood against the firewall. Took a punch and, in combination with the bar, pressed on a side of the plug to turn it sideways. He then pulled it out with a smaller bar. Cleaned the bore up with some abrasive cloth (as I remember this was the worst part), then used a socket and the bar/wood combo to press the plug in. He was leveraging everything off the firewall using the wood block as a spreader. I can't remember him disconnecting the kickdown linkage or the throttle linkage but he must have as this was the driver's side head. This was a mid 60's Chrysler wagon if my memory isn't totally crap today.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: Sniper]
#2893397
02/26/21 02:30 PM
02/26/21 02:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,814
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,814
Kirkland, Washington
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Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.
I'm not so sure that applies to all people. When I was going to college I worked part time at the local Chrysler dealer. One thing I did was new car pre-delivery preparation (dealer prep). One of the items on the checklist was to make sure the front wheel bearings were adjusted properly, So I was working on a new car and had the torque wrench out adjusting the front wheel bearings as per the FSM procedure. The senior mechanic walked over and asked me what I was doing. Told him, he laughed that you could do that by hand, didn't need a torque wrench. This is 1974 and I'm young, dumb, and headstrong so I proceed to tell him it can't be done. Now this is a guy that has worked on Mopars since 1947 and has done it all. So it ended up in a challenge. I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again and over the next year I learned a lot from that old fart. Passed away about 20 years go. Great loss of talent. Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head. Maybe you need to go back and reread how to set front wheel bearing preload. Having just converted my 51 from the original style setup to the later style, such as used in 74, there is no torque on the bearings when you are done. The procedure still involves a torque spec to arrive at the desired result. Unless you are good at doing it without, and many people are.
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: Sniper]
#2893435
02/26/21 04:06 PM
02/26/21 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,695
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,695
North Dakota
|
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.
I'm not so sure that applies to all people. When I was going to college I worked part time at the local Chrysler dealer. One thing I did was new car pre-delivery preparation (dealer prep). One of the items on the checklist was to make sure the front wheel bearings were adjusted properly, So I was working on a new car and had the torque wrench out adjusting the front wheel bearings as per the FSM procedure. The senior mechanic walked over and asked me what I was doing. Told him, he laughed that you could do that by hand, didn't need a torque wrench. This is 1974 and I'm young, dumb, and headstrong so I proceed to tell him it can't be done. Now this is a guy that has worked on Mopars since 1947 and has done it all. So it ended up in a challenge. I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again and over the next year I learned a lot from that old fart. Passed away about 20 years go. Great loss of talent. Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head. Maybe you need to go back and reread how to set front wheel bearing preload. Having just converted my 51 from the original style setup to the later style, such as used in 74, there is no torque on the bearings when you are done. I couldn't find a '74 manual online but this is the procedure from the '73 manual.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: jlatessa]
#2893499
02/26/21 07:57 PM
02/26/21 07:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
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Yes it is homemade. I attached a photo. If you need some measurements, let me know.
Jim
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: jlatessa]
#2893540
02/26/21 10:36 PM
02/26/21 10:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
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Yes, thanks, a couple of dimensions will save me some time.
Do the two tabs in front locate in the k frame?
Thanks again, Joe The 2 vertical pieces fit alongside the oil pan and support the engine/K Frame on the oil pan flange. US Car tools has one which is somewhat similar and locates in the K Frame http://store.uscartool.com/Mopar-K-Frame-Stand-Drivetrain-Restoration-Tool_p_84.html
Last edited by RealWing; 02/26/21 10:36 PM.
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: jlatessa]
#2893773
02/27/21 04:02 PM
02/27/21 04:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
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Yes, thanks, a couple of dimensions will save me some time.
Do the two tabs in front locate in the k frame?
Thanks again, Joe Some more photos and dimensions
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2895411
03/03/21 09:48 PM
03/03/21 09:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,788
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,788
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
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Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.
I I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again . A front wheel bearing is unique. You are compressing 2 tapered wheel bearings. There IS a spot where they get tightened to and most of us can easily find it. Even the range from too loose there is backlash to too tight and it's hard to turn is pretty close to each other. Anything that crushes a gasket like in the engine not only gets torqued to spec but a pattern is important. Rod bolts stretch when torqued properly, also important. I always torque U bolts to rear housing too, it's not as tight as most of you "by feel" think it is. Every wheel and every suspension fastener and if it's crushing a sleeve, at ride height.
69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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Is the difference between those two a tiny bit tight or just barely getting tight? 
