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Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: tex013] #2892807
02/24/21 06:38 PM
02/24/21 06:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Ohio
O
Old buddy Offline OP
member
Old buddy  Offline OP
member
O

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Ohio
My budget is about 10k. Ive really enjoyed all the replies, theyve been helpful. I like the idea of fuel injection, but Im old school and like carburetors. Ive narrowed my converter choices to Dynamic or ATI...they seem to be very well thought of after reading about them. Can I run 11.0:1 compression with aluminum heads? I plan on buying new pistons and h beam rods...so adding a new crank wont add a lot of cost. If I go with a solid lifter flat tappet cam...what specs should I be considering?...what about solid roller cam specs? Thank you again for the replies.

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2892904
02/25/21 12:43 AM
02/25/21 12:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 668
Missouri
J
jwb123 Offline
mopar
jwb123  Offline
mopar
J

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 668
Missouri
I built a guy a car a few years ago, a 69 belvedere, never weighed it, but it had full interior. 440, with a 496 440 source stroker kit, flat top pistons, 906 heads I hand ported, 1 7/8 headers, .590 lift Howards camshaft, don't remember the exact specs but it was around 240 @.50 duration, 108 center, 1050 dominator with a single plane intake, cheap ebay 3,000 stall converter, 4.30 gears, ran on pump gas, ran 7.00 all day long in the 1/8 mile, took it to a 1/4 mile track, it ran a 10.90 off the trailer, they told him to take it home no roll bar. He put a roll bar in it and ran it for several seasons before selling, he drove it on the street every now and then.

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2892970
02/25/21 10:25 AM
02/25/21 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
My old 440-6 70 Charger went 11.28 @ almost 122 on 93. I did have a Snow Performance Water/Meth injection kit. (washer fluid). 11.25:1 stock stroke 440 w/ worked stage VI heads, 588 solid roller cam, stock 6 pack.

WP_20150417_004.jpg

[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #2893038
02/25/21 02:28 PM
02/25/21 02:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,598
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,598
Kalispell Mt.
505 vs 440 is mostly gonna be a big increase in TQ with just a little HP increase, TQ breaks parts, you get to a point where you can easily make the power with good modern top end stuff to run what you want and any more TQ means upgrading from 8 3/4 to dana bigger tires higher gears (put more stress on trans and driveshaft u joints...) bottom line is it is just so easy now days to run low 11s with even a stock 440 short block and carefully selected modern heads and cam that it is almost not worth bothering with the extra cubes. Don't get me wrong, I love big TQ but there is a point where it is just not much point, on the street a 440 can easily make 500lbs tq and make hooking up nearly impossible already and at the track when it does hook you got to upgrade lots of stuff to keep it from breaking stuff, are you u-joints gonna handle 1300LBS plus TQ? Driveshaft? Trans output shaft? Can your input shaft handle 600lbs?


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: HotRodDave] #2893076
02/25/21 03:59 PM
02/25/21 03:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,059
Massillon, Ohio
C
cudatom Offline
super stock
cudatom  Offline
super stock
C

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,059
Massillon, Ohio
Originally Posted by HotRodDave
505 vs 440 is mostly gonna be a big increase in TQ with just a little HP increase, TQ breaks parts, you get to a point where you can easily make the power with good modern top end stuff to run what you want and any more TQ means upgrading from 8 3/4 to dana bigger tires higher gears (put more stress on trans and driveshaft u joints...) bottom line is it is just so easy now days to run low 11s with even a stock 440 short block and carefully selected modern heads and cam that it is almost not worth bothering with the extra cubes. Don't get me wrong, I love big TQ but there is a point where it is just not much point, on the street a 440 can easily make 500lbs tq and make hooking up nearly impossible already and at the track when it does hook you got to upgrade lots of stuff to keep it from breaking stuff, are you u-joints gonna handle 1300LBS plus TQ? Driveshaft? Trans output shaft? Can your input shaft handle 600lbs?

For me a 8 3/4 in a heavy B body is already a disaster waiting to happen whether a 440 or 505. The big TQ has the benefits of lower shift points , and engine longevity. I shift at 5400 in the 1/8 and run 7.0s all day running 28 x 9 MT PBR tires. When I run the 1/4 I switch to Hoosier 29.5 x 9 bias ply. Shift at 5500 and cross the line at 5900 running 11.0s. On a big car it takes a lot of TQ to get off the line.

Another benefit I found with my combo is significantly more vaccume. I could have left power brakes on my combo. I may still switch back. Now my brother that has the same cam, heads but with a 440 barely has enough vaccume for his PB. He also runs .15 slower at 400lbs less weight.

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: HotRodDave] #2893081
02/25/21 04:17 PM
02/25/21 04:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,974
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts
AndyF  Offline
Too Many Posts
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,974
Oregon
Originally Posted by HotRodDave
505 vs 440 is mostly gonna be a big increase in TQ with just a little HP increase, TQ breaks parts, you get to a point where you can easily make the power with good modern top end stuff to run what you want and any more TQ means upgrading from 8 3/4 to dana bigger tires higher gears (put more stress on trans and driveshaft u joints...) bottom line is it is just so easy now days to run low 11s with even a stock 440 short block and carefully selected modern heads and cam that it is almost not worth bothering with the extra cubes. Don't get me wrong, I love big TQ but there is a point where it is just not much point, on the street a 440 can easily make 500lbs tq and make hooking up nearly impossible already and at the track when it does hook you got to upgrade lots of stuff to keep it from breaking stuff, are you u-joints gonna handle 1300LBS plus TQ? Driveshaft? Trans output shaft? Can your input shaft handle 600lbs?


OP already has a Dana and he is already going thru the engine so a stroker is almost a no brainer for him. I would keep the compression down to 10.0 max just to make it easier to drive on the street. With a stroker and good heads there is no reason to push the limit on compression ratio. The last street/strip engine I did was 9.8 compression with 240 heads and it made over 600/600 with a small hyd roller cam. With a solid roller cam you can move that up to the 625 or 650 range and still be very safe with pump gas and have enough torque to move a fully loaded B body down the track in 11's or high 10's.

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #2893088
02/25/21 04:36 PM
02/25/21 04:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 401
Kentucky
clovis Offline
mopar
clovis  Offline
mopar

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 401
Kentucky
I am currently working toward the same goals - street legal, just around town cruising, and a mid to low 11 second time slip. In doing the math to go 11.50 at 3350lbs, it says I needed 400hp on the ground, so roughly 500 at the crank. A little browsing around here, and I stumbled across Fast68's, write-up on a 500hp 383. He made it look easy-cam, intake, carb, headers, an unported 906 and walla 500hp. Now, I know the devil is in the details but still at least hitting 450-475 should be doable and you know what it is. I found a 383 shortblock in good shape on the cheap. After talking with Fast68 and getting him to send me a cam, I threw on a Victor 383, a 750 Demon and some headers and it went 11.47/119 right off the trailer. I have played with intakes and carbs this past season and it now goes 11.30 in not so good air. To get the good time slips with it you will need the suspension dialed which you should be able to do with the Caltracs and a well matched converter (I've had good results with PTC). So if the bottom end of that 383 is in good shape it may be an option if you are around 3,500lbs, if it needs any work at the machine shop, then you are money ahead by going ahead with the 500+ cubic inch route.


Last edited by clovis; 02/27/21 12:23 AM.

'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: clovis] #2893141
02/25/21 07:07 PM
02/25/21 07:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,551
Michigan
T
Transman Online content
master
Transman  Online Content
master
T

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,551
Michigan
Originally Posted by clovis
I am currently working toward the same goals - street legal, just around town cruising, and a mid to low 11 second time slip. In doing the math to go 11.50 at 3350lbs, it says I needed 400hp on the ground, so roughly 500 at the crank. A little browsing around here, and I stumbled across Fast68's, write-up on a 500hp 383. He made it look easy-cam, intake, carb, headers, an unported 906 and walla 500hp. Now, I know the devil is in the details but still at least hitting 450-475 should be doable and you know what it is. I found a 383 shortblock in good shape on the cheap. After talking with Fast68 and getting him to send me a cam, I threw on a Victor 383, a 750 Demon and some headers and it went 11.47/119 right off the trailer. I have played with intakes and carbs this past season and it now goes 11.30 in not so good air. To get the good time slips with it you will the suspension dialed which you should be able to do with the Caltracs and a well matched converter (I've had good results with PTC). So if the bottom end of that 383 is in good shape it may be an option if you are around 3,500lbs, if it needs any work at the machine shop, then you are money ahead by going ahead with the 500+ cubic inch route.



Save some of us some time - how do we find the post on Fast’s success story.

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Transman] #2893155
02/25/21 07:40 PM
02/25/21 07:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,001
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,001
So. Burlington, Vt.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2893186
02/25/21 09:08 PM
02/25/21 09:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 783
Liverpool, NY
S
SILVER67 Offline
super stock
SILVER67  Offline
super stock
S

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 783
Liverpool, NY
505 cubes
10.96 compression
440-1 CNC 325
M1 intake
1000 4150 AED
.600 Comp flat tappet
70-71 Hemi oil pan
2” TTI step headers, 3” exhaust out the back bumper.

3.54 gear
8” convertor
FMVB - A&A transmission
3,930 pounds

93 Sunoco
Chrome box
Belt driven water pump
Lincoln Mark VII fan
Mallory 140 fuel pump
6 point chromemoly bar
Pinion snubber, XHD springs
Viking DBL adjustable-rear
Gas shock-front
9x28 M/T Pro Bracket Radial

Shift
1) 6300
2) 6200
Stripe) 6200

Foot break @ 2,000

Best of 10.89 @ 123
Does 10.90’s in the dead of summer

Put over 1,500 miles on it last year.
Cruises @ 3,300 rpm @ 68 mph on the highway

Cubes can help

My leak springs are bent......so i’m Not sure the power is doing that but I don’t think the weight helps

891C52B0-16EF-4D54-B561-7BDAAB8441EC.jpeg
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: SILVER67] #2893235
02/25/21 11:02 PM
02/25/21 11:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,082
central texas
K
krautrock Offline
top fuel
krautrock  Offline
top fuel
K

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,082
central texas
^ dude, 3.54 gear with a 28" tire shows almost 78mph on an rpm calculator.
is your torque converter making you lose 10mph at cruise?

and 6200rpm shows 145mph...

Last edited by krautrock; 02/25/21 11:03 PM.
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: SILVER67] #2893308
02/26/21 10:10 AM
02/26/21 10:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,283
Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline
master
TonyS451  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,283
Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by SILVER67
505 cubes
10.96 compression
440-1 CNC 325
M1 intake
1000 4150 AED
.600 Comp flat tappet
70-71 Hemi oil pan
2” TTI step headers, 3” exhaust out the back bumper.

3.54 gear
8” convertor
FMVB - A&A transmission
3,930 pounds

93 Sunoco
Chrome box
Belt driven water pump
Lincoln Mark VII fan
Mallory 140 fuel pump
6 point chromemoly bar
Pinion snubber, XHD springs
Viking DBL adjustable-rear
Gas shock-front
9x28 M/T Pro Bracket Radial

Shift
1) 6300
2) 6200
Stripe) 6200

Foot break @ 2,000

Best of 10.89 @ 123
Does 10.90’s in the dead of summer

Put over 1,500 miles on it last year.
Cruises @ 3,300 rpm @ 68 mph on the highway

Cubes can help

My leak springs are bent......so i’m Not sure the power is doing that but I don’t think the weight helps


Love this 67 RT!! Now thats a street car


2 kids and a dog
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: TonyS451] #2893310
02/26/21 10:18 AM
02/26/21 10:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,576
Arlington, Texas
B
bobby66 Offline
master
bobby66  Offline
master
B

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,576
Arlington, Texas
Originally Posted by TonyS451
Originally Posted by SILVER67
505 cubes
10.96 compression
440-1 CNC 325
M1 intake
1000 4150 AED
.600 Comp flat tappet
70-71 Hemi oil pan
2” TTI step headers, 3” exhaust out the back bumper.

3.54 gear
8” convertor
FMVB - A&A transmission
3,930 pounds

93 Sunoco
Chrome box
Belt driven water pump
Lincoln Mark VII fan
Mallory 140 fuel pump
6 point chromemoly bar
Pinion snubber, XHD springs
Viking DBL adjustable-rear
Gas shock-front
9x28 M/T Pro Bracket Radial

Shift
1) 6300
2) 6200
Stripe) 6200

Foot break @ 2,000

Best of 10.89 @ 123
Does 10.90’s in the dead of summer

Put over 1,500 miles on it last year.
Cruises @ 3,300 rpm @ 68 mph on the highway

Cubes can help

My leak springs are bent......so i’m Not sure the power is doing that but I don’t think the weight helps


Love this 67 RT!! Now thats a street car


Yep. That's a cool machine right there! drive


B
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: bobby66] #2893326
02/26/21 10:54 AM
02/26/21 10:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145
Arizona, USA
gsmopar Offline
super stock
gsmopar  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145
Arizona, USA
10.15 @ 133 on my first shake down pass on 92 octane. 605 hemi, 11:1, CNC Indy SR Heads, 690/670 @ 280/288. Full exhaust, pro street car. I think there is a 9 in it, but my local track is run by a bunch of "mask-holes" and I won't go back until the Chyna Flu scamdemic is over.

https://rumble.com/vb4x3j-race-1-wild-hors-pass-msp-arizona.html

[Linked Image]Untitled by Greg Ault, on Flickr

Last edited by gsmopar; 02/26/21 11:01 AM.
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: gsmopar] #2894648
03/02/21 04:10 AM
03/02/21 04:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
Too Many Posts
3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
I have hit 10.70's @ 125 in my 63 Sport Fury with a mild basic stroker. Its a 493 as I used the 4.15 crank in the 440 block. Has D-dished pistons for 10.6 comp with the basic Indy EZ heads. I use the Indy dual plane intake and a Holley 850 double pumper. Cam is a solid flat tappet from Dwayne Porter ( Fast 68 ) and it is .585 & .592 lift with 264 & 270 @ .050 and a 110 LSA. Its really nothing fancy as I built good quench in it and I drive and race it on 93 pump. Car weighs 3700 with out me as its a 727 with a Dynamic 9.5 converter and 4.30's with a 30" tire. I usually drive it the 45 miles to the track and race just as I drive it through the full exh. Good luck with yours as it sounds like a nice solid build. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 03/02/21 04:12 AM.
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: 383man] #2894652
03/02/21 06:12 AM
03/02/21 06:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 523
UK
rb446 Offline
mopar
rb446  Offline
mopar

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 523
UK
Originally Posted by 383man
I have hit 10.70's @ 125 in my 63 Sport Fury with a mild basic stroker. Its a 493 as I used the 4.15 crank in the 440 block. Has D-dished pistons for 10.6 comp with the basic Indy EZ heads. I use the Indy dual plane intake and a Holley 850 double pumper. Cam is a solid flat tappet from Dwayne Porter ( Fast 68 ) and it is .585 & .592 lift with 264 & 270 @ .050 and a 110 LSA. Its really nothing fancy as I built good quench in it and I drive and race it on 93 pump. Car weighs 3700 with out me as its a 727 with a Dynamic 9.5 converter and 4.30's with a 30" tire. I usually drive it the 45 miles to the track and race just as I drive it through the full exh. Good luck with yours as it sounds like a nice solid build. Ron


Thats a nice combo Ron and assuming thats 3900@the line we are talking around 620fwhp@125mph up I ran 10.71@125 in the '69 car NA at just 3300 all in, 525fwhp, 906 headed 440, .650"sft 290@.050 back in 1990.

Last edited by rb446; 03/02/21 06:17 AM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: rb446] #2895075
03/03/21 01:24 AM
03/03/21 01:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 579
Boise Idaho
6
65coronet500 Offline
mopar
65coronet500  Offline
mopar
6

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 579
Boise Idaho
I have ran a .060 440 with a mildly ported set of Indy 440-1 by Porter racing heads (fast68plymouth )
11to 1 compression on 91 octane 10% ethynol pump gas only no additives
Comp roller 266@.050 .640 lift w1.5 rockers
Indy single plane with a 1050 dominator
Ross flat top pistons Manley H beam rods
TTI 2 1/8 headers 3800 lb 1965 coronet
4.88 gear 5700 stall 8inch converter low gear 727 trans by Ultimate transmission
30x9x15 Hoosier radial drag slick
10.30 et @130 mph 1.40 60ft times
Shift at about 7200
Also ran this car / engine combo with a Jericho 4 speed
Same et with about 1 mph faster
The key in my opinion is the guy that does the heads and cam choice ! (Fast68) Porter racing heads !!

84446B38-13F7-4169-A15E-417E4A626D9C.jpeg

All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads .
..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: 65coronet500] #2895136
03/03/21 09:54 AM
03/03/21 09:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,484
bronx n.y
O
one bad fish Offline
pro stock
one bad fish  Offline
pro stock
O

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,484
bronx n.y
Originally Posted by 65coronet500
I have ran a .060 440 with a mildly ported set of Indy 440-1 by Porter racing heads (fast68plymouth )
11to 1 compression on 91 octane 10% ethynol pump gas only no additives
Comp roller 266@.050 .640 lift w1.5 rockers
Indy single plane with a 1050 dominator
Ross flat top pistons Manley H beam rods
TTI 2 1/8 headers 3800 lb 1965 coronet
4.88 gear 5700 stall 8inch converter low gear 727 trans by Ultimate transmission
30x9x15 Hoosier radial drag slick
10.30 et @130 mph 1.40 60ft times
Shift at about 7200
Also ran this car / engine combo with a Jericho 4 speed
Same et with about 1 mph faster
The key in my opinion is the guy that does the heads and cam choice ! (Fast68) Porter racing heads !!
nice car

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2895266
03/03/21 03:46 PM
03/03/21 03:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,268
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
ZIPPY  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,268
S.E. Michigan
Your plan will work out just fine, and what you're shooting for is a very solid 11 second kind of a street/strip deal.

My '69 GTX is a getting little bit dated but still runs well and is along the same lines.

451ci (400 B engine based, but really close enough to a .055 or .060 over 440 for comparison sake)
10.75:1
RPM heads, minor prep (backcut valves, blended port openings slightly)
PRH/Comp .630/262-266 solid roller
Victor 383 intake prepped at home, 1000/4150 race demon
2" supercomps/mufflers/X pipe exhaust I fabbed in my Dad's driveway

The converter I have is somewhat "wrong" for the combination, it was originally made for a 572 Wedge
A body race application, and is too tight for mine for racing but it drives really nice on the street so I've left it alone.

4.10 Dana with a Power Lock.

Most of the time it went 11.20s and 11.30s around 120.
11.0 @ 123 best ever (three times same day) and for whatever reason I haven't been able to do it again.

Peak power rpm is about 6200/chassis dyno, pretty close to what you were looking for.

Later I tried a 950 Quick Fuel Brawler and it ran about the same ET as before
but feels quite a bit snappier on the street. Only had it to the track once with that carb
and it went 7.15, 7.16, 7.17, 7.17 that day (so basically 11-teens to 20s).

TBH the only outdated item you're thinking about is the M1, and it's still a pretty darn good piece.
I'm sure a TFS or prepped Victor would pick up a little bit but nothing earth shattering.



Below is an old picture...Old time Moparts people will recognize it from many years ago.....
It wasn't long after this shot we had to intall a roll bar. You will too! Good luck

gtx burnout 2.jpg

Rich H.





Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: ZIPPY] #2895304
03/03/21 05:38 PM
03/03/21 05:38 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,010
ohio
6
67mprfan Offline
super stock
67mprfan  Offline
super stock
6

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,010
ohio
Originally Posted by ZIPPY
Your plan will work out just fine, and what you're shooting for is a very solid 11 second kind of a street/strip deal.

My '69 GTX is a getting little bit dated but still runs well and is along the same lines.

451ci (400 B engine based, but really close enough to a .055 or .060 over 440 for comparison sake)
10.75:1
RPM heads, minor prep (backcut valves, blended port openings slightly)
PRH/Comp .630/262-266 solid roller
Victor 383 intake prepped at home, 1000/4150 race demon
2" supercomps/mufflers/X pipe exhaust I fabbed in my Dad's driveway





Hello zippy how did those 2in super comp headers fit using your low deck block.... Thanks


71 demon stock stroke 440/indy ez-1 running 10.10 @ 132.14 mph in the 1/4 and 6.36 @ 107.46 mph in the 1/8 not in the same weekend but It did it then I sold it.
67 Belvedere that worked it's way in the 10's
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