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combo/cam help #2893008
02/25/21 12:13 PM
02/25/21 12:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
Clarksville
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Furious67 Offline OP
member
Furious67  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
Clarksville
Hello all, first post but i have been lurking for a couple of years, also sorry in advance but this may be a little long winded.. I am looking for some opinions/help with what i am hoping to do. We (the wife and I) are working on a 67 plymouth fury 1 (which is to be her drag car) and are hoping to run Rocky Mountain Race Week in it this year. Car was an original 318 car which we have swapped for a 78 400 out of a newport (i wanted to go late model hemi but she wanted a big block lol). We have only taken it on a couple of very short test drives as we keep running into minor issues but this 400 is barely faster than the original 318. We are hoping to get this car to run 14.0 true street class so I figure we need to run a mid to low 13 here in Missouri to run a 14 at elevation(faster would be better). Bandimere is the highest track at 6000+ ft. elevation if i recall correctly. I know we are fighting the low compression of this 400 so i am looking for some help to get the most out of it. Also we are not wanting to pull apart the short block to do pistons or anything of that sort, we bought this 400 just to get the car swapped to a big block and see what we could do with it, we plan to build a stroker 440 in a year or so. So we have the motor in and running, currently have TTI headers on it. My plan was to use edlebrock e-street 75cc heads to bring the compression up a little and get more flow (plus the stock heads have some broken exhaust bolts in them and someone tried to get them out and really gouged up the surface where the header/manifold seals. Put an edlebrock performer RPM intake on (already purchased) swap the rear gears (2.76 stock, looking at 3.91's ) swap the cam (need help here) and put a bigger carb on (currently a 600cfm edlebrock that came off the 318). My wife does not care how loud or obnoxious the car is but i do need it streetable enough to make the drive there/home and the drive between tracks. So i am wondering how big can I/should I go on cam to achieve our goal. Car weighed 4150 with the small block and me so i would think the big block added at least another 100lbs. I have not had the heads off but everything i read says the compression it in the 7.5ish range, cranking pressure was 127-130 on all cylinders. So any help with the cam or overall combo would be greatly appreciated. Also if you think this is just not gonna work that's fine to as we are fairly new to all of this.

Thanks
Jason

Re: combo/cam help [Re: Furious67] #2893024
02/25/21 01:40 PM
02/25/21 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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fast68plymouth  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
To go along with the new heads, intake, headers, gears........ Iā€™d suggest a 750 double pumper type carb, the Hughes Whiplash cam, and a decent 9.5ā€ or 10ā€ converter.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906ā€™s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: combo/cam help [Re: Furious67] #2893033
02/25/21 02:16 PM
02/25/21 02:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
I would build the current 400 motor into a 4.250 stroke stroker motor after having it sonic tested to make sure you end up with at least .150 cylinder wall thickness on the cam side and motor mount sides of all 8 cylinders.
The 400 blocks have a lot thicker main webbing and you can crack the 440 main webs a lot easier than the 400 block whiney
I would and do use either 6.700 or 6.800 good brand long H beam rod to safely make 600+ HP on pump swill up
As far as the cam to use I like big ones devil On the exhaust system I would and do use a 3.0 pipes from the collectors to the 3.0 inlet and outlet high flow muffs.
You need a good converter to work well at the track and driving to the races, I like and do use a good 8 inch up Not a cheap one down
My first "drag race only car" was a 1960 Dodge Phoenix that weighed 4050 lbs. without me in it, I traded a 1955 Chrysler Fire Power 331 C.I. Hemi and installed into the guys roadster for a stroker 383 motor (unknown the true C.I., I was told it had a welded up 413 crank that had a 4.250 stroke and bored to 4.310 shruggy) that I put a stock type dual 4 barrel set up on that motor. That car ran 12.80 on a set of J.C. Penney 7x26x14 slicks, yes they sold them for a while back in the late 1960s. That was with a stock cast iron torqeflyte and stock low stall converter with 3.73 gears and no posi .
I was very happy with those results up
Good luck on your build scope Make sure and degree the cam and verify the compression ratio on all 8 cylinders scope wrench


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: combo/cam help [Re: fast68plymouth] #2893046
02/25/21 02:35 PM
02/25/21 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,005
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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DaveRS23  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,005
Benton, IL.
With those changes, the OP is gonna need some more traction, too. Launching well over 4,000lbs is gonna take more tire, U joints, Sure-Grip, shocks, maybe better springs and other traction aids. And you'll find out how sound that 727 is, too.

Getting that old boat into the 13s is certainly doable. But not with many of the grocery-getter 318 parts still aboard. The original 318 had maybe 200 - 225hp. According to the Wallace calculators, the Fury will need about 125 more horsepower to hit the high 13s. Probably even more unless the combo is well balanced.


Master, again and still
Re: combo/cam help [Re: fast68plymouth] #2893054
02/25/21 02:49 PM
02/25/21 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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Jerry  Offline
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Warren, MI
is the whiplash cam really that good for a low compression engine?


Superior Design Concepts
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Troy MI 48083
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Re: combo/cam help [Re: Furious67] #2893060
02/25/21 03:04 PM
02/25/21 03:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
This deal will need a lot of help . the weight and altitude are killers. I calculated 4300 weight and 13.00 et to come up with a hp figure of 385 crank hp. To run the number you will need to do cam, heads, headers , high stall converter (4000 rpm or more) at least 3.91 gears and slicks to get there. If you spend the $$ to get heads for your future build you can gain compression and airflow big time. Check out MARSH PERFORMANCE sidewinder heads. Todd is great to deal with and can help you with a cam also. The plan IMHO should be to spend the$$$ on what can transfer to the next motor. The 400 is the motor you want to stroke. A 499 cube stroker that has 10/1 compression can run on pump gas with aluminum heads. And 500 + hp is a piece of cake.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: combo/cam help [Re: gregsdart] #2893089
02/25/21 04:37 PM
02/25/21 04:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
Clarksville
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Furious67 Offline OP
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Furious67  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
Clarksville
Thanks for the input everybody. Yes i figured we would need a 750 carb, converter, better tires and possibly other traction aids. I looked at the Whiplash cams but was not sure that would be the best choice (which is why i am here) plus they are kinda pricey compared to other cams but if the whiplash will help us get the car where we want the few extra bucks is not a big deal.
I had also looked at the sidewinder and 440 source heads but thought the little bump in compression the 75cc e-streets would provide would help. Is the small compression bump just not worth it as the thing i did like about the sidewinders is that i should not have to have them checked.
As far as the rear end i figured the 3.91's would be slightly better on the highway as apposed to 4.10's or more but if more gear is needed that is fine because this car will be more strip than street. I had planned to call Dr. Diff and have a 3rd member built with the Sure Trac and 3.91's (or lower if needed)
Exhaust is already TTI headers (1 7/8") 3" collector extensions (about 18") then into a 3" summit/flowmaster knock-off 2 chamber muffler then turn downs immediately after the muffler so pretty short and free flowing.
Would i really need 4000 rpm stall and how will that be on the street? As long as it will cruise on the highway that's fine. Like i said this will definitely be more drag than street but will get driven to our local track (1.5 hrs) and hopefully Colorado

We had talked about rebuilding the 400 into a stroker when we get to that point as i have read they are the stronger block (and may still) but we have a 440 sitting here also. This was the motor we had planned to drop in but i pulled the heads and found an ever so slight scratch in one cylinder, I probably should have just ran it because we heard it run and it ran good but i freaked and we bought this 400 and i decided to not open it up and just stick it in the car.

Re: combo/cam help [Re: Furious67] #2893111
02/25/21 05:27 PM
02/25/21 05:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
Dump the "Flow Stoppers" and get some straight through muffs for better WOT like the Magnaflow 14x7 with 3.0 side inlets with the 3.0 inch center outlets and mount them behind the rear end for better sound and performance over your current set up twocents
You may want to have a low gear set (2.70 or higher) installed in your tranny instead of using a lower gear ratio in the third member, way better for launching and cruising also scope work
That or buy and use a later model O.D. tranny for that car with a lot steeper low gear and adapt it to your motor and car work shruggy
IHTHs thumbs
Mama racing with you is a good thing up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)






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