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Mid to low 11s on pump gas? #2892654
02/24/21 12:27 PM
02/24/21 12:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
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Ohio
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Old buddy Offline OP
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Ohio
I have a 69 road runner that is going to be a street/strip car that I plan on running on 93 octane pump gas with the addition of a little race fuel at the track. I have no intentions of making it a cruiser...I want it more oriented toward drag strip performance. I have been out of Mopars for the past 12-13 years, at that time I had a 68 road runner that had a 440 recipe that was for a low 12 car. I know that technology had came a long way with cylinder heads, suspension, camshafts, etc since I built that 440 in 2000. I havent decided on a lot yet, but I have decided on Cal Trac Mono leaf springs, Cal Trac bars, Cal Trac rear shocks. The rear end is a Dana 60 with 4.10 gears. The trans will be a 727...no idea on stall speed or converter brand yet. Ill be running a 28-29" tall tire in the rear. I plan on adding torque boxes and frame connectors, and possibly a 6 point bar if the car runs quick enough. Itll have an A12 hood for fresh air.

Since ive been out of this hobby for so long, what would you guys recommend running to get me there? I have access to a 440 and the original 383 thats in the car. I was thinking something along the lines of Trick Flow 240 heads, roller solid camshaft, lightweight pistons, H beam rods, M1 Single plane, 950hp Holley or AED, all MSD ignition, TTI 2" step headers, fuel cell with -8 line to the regulator with -6 going to the float bowls. Will a stock stroke 440 get me to mid 11s and lower if I decided I wanted to go quicker? I really dont want to shift this car much over 62-6400 if that helps.

I appreciate any advice

Last edited by Old buddy; 02/24/21 12:30 PM.
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2892658
02/24/21 12:40 PM
02/24/21 12:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,950
Wichita
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GY3 Online content
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Wichita
We do what you're wanting to albeit with a much higher gear, 3.54's, 2800 stall, pump gas and through the mufflers. It is a little bigger at 505".

Really don't need big headers or large fuel line to get it done, either. The TF240's are a good choice.

See my build in the Member Projects and Survivor pics section for more details. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/428197/11.html




Last edited by GY3; 02/24/21 12:42 PM.

'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2892661
02/24/21 12:49 PM
02/24/21 12:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,002
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Your plans look fine.

I’d suggest building a 505 out of the 440 block for some easy 10’s.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2892677
02/24/21 01:41 PM
02/24/21 01:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,059
Massillon, Ohio
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cudatom Offline
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Massillon, Ohio
Did just what you want with my 67 wagon but used LD stroker. Like others said go 505 with your 440. No need for a roller cam. I also like the dominator vs the 4150 carb. They can be very streetable, just takes some time to get them squared away.

I'm at 4100lbs plus and have no problem running 11"0s with less head(edelbrock performers)than you are looking at. Good luck and keep us posted.

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2892678
02/24/21 01:42 PM
02/24/21 01:42 PM
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Posts: 4,310
Puyallup, WA
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StealthWedge67 Offline
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Your recipe should get you to where you want to be, as long as the chassis is up to the task, with room to spare. My Satellite sits right where you want to be with CNC’d Stealths and a mid-sized solid flat tappet. 28” tires and 4.10’s work real well together, should have you at about 6400 at the stripe depending on your converter.

I would think TF240’s and a solid roller in the range of 250-256 at .050 on the intake side really should have you knocking on the 10 second door, if not barging right through it.


LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: StealthWedge67] #2892682
02/24/21 01:57 PM
02/24/21 01:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,484
bronx n.y
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one bad fish Offline
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bronx n.y
my 65 coronet is 440 tf 240 solid cam 950 carb 430 gear 1150 @ 116

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: one bad fish] #2892687
02/24/21 02:05 PM
02/24/21 02:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,551
Michigan
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Transman Offline
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Michigan
A12, 4.56 axle, 9” converter, stock blueprinted short block and heads with old cheater cam, .440” / .470” hydraulic, through flowmasters.
3725 pounds on the starting line, last time out (2005) 11.28. I drive it on the street as it is.

For you, change the axle ratio, use a good 10” converter, lose some et.
Use a better cam and heads and get more back than you lost.

Boom.

Last edited by Transman; 02/24/21 02:16 PM.
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2892695
02/24/21 02:19 PM
02/24/21 02:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,974
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Got a car like that going together in the shop this winter. This one has a 505 pump gas engine with Trick Flow 270 heads and a street roller cam. It made 700 hp on the dyno with a Holley Sniper throttle body. If you know anything about computers or have a buddy who is okay with computers you might consider EFI rather than a carb. The EFI will provide you with a bigger tuning window for a street/strip car.

DSC_4505 (Large).JPG
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2892699
02/24/21 02:23 PM
02/24/21 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,527
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Since the rotating assembly is pretty much the same price from 440 540 cubes , IMHO the bigger you can go the better. I am betting Fast68 suggested the 505 due to it probably working with an internal oil system. If you are willing to go external pickup, I would chose a 535 combo, 4.5 stroke and 4.350 bore. 10/1 compression, good flowing small port heads and a solid cam similar to the 590 mopar cam. A 950 will leave power on the table. I had good luck with a ported tunnelram with a pair of 800 holley dps on my 535 with 906 heads. Those carbs may not have been ideal, but the point is a big motor needs air! It went 10.50s at 3400 lbs and there was a fair amount wrong with some of my choices in that build 40 years ago. I ran those numbers with 4.10 gears and 33x15 slicks. Shifted at 5700. If i were to do it again it would get fuel injection on that tunnelram.


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: AndyF] #2892714
02/24/21 02:47 PM
02/24/21 02:47 PM
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Posts: 29,974
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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The M1 will work but if you have the room a Trick Flow intake will work better. Do some research on EFI before you start spending money. EFI will solve a bunch of problems with street/strip cars but it takes money and some knowledge to make it work. Putting the fuel pump in the tank with the regulator simplifies the fuel system. You'll only need one high pressure fuel line and no return lines. Having the EFI system control the ignition timing gives you complete control of the ignition timing which really helps when you have a big cam on the street. Plus, these systems come with data logging built in which helps debug any problems. It is one of the big changes over the past 10 years but is still fairly early in adoption phase.

DSC_4443 (Large).JPG
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: gregsdart] #2892717
02/24/21 02:52 PM
02/24/21 02:52 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 476
Temperance, MI
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68 HEMI GTS Offline
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Temperance, MI
Build a 500 ci engine. My 69 rr runs 11.0-10.90’s @ 4000# race weight, on pump gas, driving to the track. 10.5:1 400/511, nothing trick, just a full interior, heater working, street car.

Last edited by 68 HEMI GTS; 02/24/21 02:53 PM.

68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780#
69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: 68 HEMI GTS] #2892728
02/24/21 03:07 PM
02/24/21 03:07 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 11,852
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
At 500 cubes or better, low 11's is no problem....


'70 Cuda,...605 Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown Hemi Car
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2892731
02/24/21 03:12 PM
02/24/21 03:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,693
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Online content
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A stock stroke 440 w/ some Trick Flow 240s and a decent cam will get you mid 11s easily. You just need to know what you have currently (decent crank and rods, etc.) and do the homework to compare what it'll cost to rebuild what you have versus building a stroker. The stroker is great, but will add a bunch of money to the project. A decent carb is way cheaper than going EFI. Reading things nowadays it's amazing these cars ever ran at all w/ carburetors on them, lol.

For what you're wanting, a stock crank, stock LY rods w/ some ARP bolts, and some $450 Wiseco Pro True Street pistons will work just fine. I'd get Dwayne to spec you a cam...but even a shelf hydraulic flat tappet (something comparable to the old MP 509/292) will work. Some Trick Flow 240s, a decent single plane manifold, 850 holley, etc.

Not knocking anyone's recommendations thus far, but mid 11s can be done cheap. You'll have $2500+ in just the stroker kit (if buying new parts). You should be able to do a stock style rotating assembly w/ a freshly turned stock crank, resized stock rods, and new pistons for $1k or so.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8 sec street car
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'73 Chrysler New Yorker
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'90 Chevy SS454 Silverado
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2892737
02/24/21 03:25 PM
02/24/21 03:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,283
Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline
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TonyS451  Offline
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Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
A stock stroke 440 w/ some Trick Flow 240s and a decent cam will get you mid 11s easily. You just need to know what you have currently (decent crank and rods, etc.) and do the homework to compare what it'll cost to rebuild what you have versus building a stroker. The stroker is great, but will add a bunch of money to the project. A decent carb is way cheaper than going EFI. Reading things nowadays it's amazing these cars ever ran at all w/ carburetors on them, lol.

For what you're wanting, a stock crank, stock LY rods w/ some ARP bolts, and some $450 Wiseco Pro True Street pistons will work just fine. I'd get Dwayne to spec you a cam...but even a shelf hydraulic flat tappet (something comparable to the old MP 509/292) will work. Some Trick Flow 240s, a decent single plane manifold, 850 holley, etc.

Not knocking anyone's recommendations thus far, but mid 11s can be done cheap. You'll have $2500+ in just the stroker kit (if buying new parts). You should be able to do a stock style rotating assembly w/ a freshly turned stock crank, resized stock rods, and new pistons for $1k or so.



I agree with Chip on this. Stock stroke 440 w decent pistons and rods, TF 240's and a mild solid flat tappet or even HFT, 850 holley, 4.10 and 3500 stall should slam dunk into the mid 11's. A 505 will do it easier if money isnt an issue, but if mid 11's is your goal, stroker is not necessary.


2 kids and a dog
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: TonyS451] #2892740
02/24/21 03:32 PM
02/24/21 03:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,484
bronx n.y
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one bad fish Offline
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Originally Posted by TonyS451
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
A stock stroke 440 w/ some Trick Flow 240s and a decent cam will get you mid 11s easily. You just need to know what you have currently (decent crank and rods, etc.) and do the homework to compare what it'll cost to rebuild what you have versus building a stroker. The stroker is great, but will add a bunch of money to the project. A decent carb is way cheaper than going EFI. Reading things nowadays it's amazing these cars ever ran at all w/ carburetors on them, lol.

For what you're wanting, a stock crank, stock LY rods w/ some ARP bolts, and some $450 Wiseco Pro True Street pistons will work just fine. I'd get Dwayne to spec you a cam...but even a shelf hydraulic flat tappet (something comparable to the old MP 509/292) will work. Some Trick Flow 240s, a decent single plane manifold, 850 holley, etc.

Not knocking anyone's recommendations thus far, but mid 11s can be done cheap. You'll have $2500+ in just the stroker kit (if buying new parts). You should be able to do a stock style rotating assembly w/ a freshly turned stock crank, resized stock rods, and new pistons for $1k or so.



I agree with Chip on this. Stock stroke 440 w decent pistons and rods, TF 240's and a mild solid flat tappet or even HFT, 850 holley, 4.10 and 3500 stall should slam dunk into the mid 11's. A 505 will do it easier if money isnt an issue, but if mid 11's is your goal, stroker is not necessary.
thats what my car goes

Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2892749
02/24/21 03:53 PM
02/24/21 03:53 PM
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Posts: 39,637
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Your plans look fine.

I’d suggest building a 505 out of the 440 block for some easy 10’s.
iagree
It is always better to have more power than you need to meet your goals to start with, you can always add the roll bar later devil up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: one bad fish] #2892751
02/24/21 03:56 PM
02/24/21 03:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,002
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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If you read all the stuff the OP is already planing on(for both the engine and the car)....... adding the 4.25 crank and 50+ cubes is a no brainer.

If there’s any chance an upgrade to the stroker would be a part of the future plans, by far the cheapest point in time to make that upgrade is........ when the motor is built the first time around.

And then there’s always:
Quote
Will a stock stroke 440 get me to mid 11s and lower if I decided I wanted to go quicker? I really dont want to shift this car much over 62-6400 if that helps


The frequency of builds based on ET’s at the track....... where the owner doesn’t end up wanting to go quicker........ is almost zero.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2892753
02/24/21 03:59 PM
02/24/21 03:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,693
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Online content
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
Well, I guess he didn't mention a budget...so spend away. up


CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8 sec street car
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'73 Chrysler New Yorker
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'90 Chevy SS454 Silverado
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2892772
02/24/21 05:04 PM
02/24/21 05:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,363
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 2,363
Sydney,Australia
My small , 440RB , 10.75:1 , 9 1/2" 5000 stall , 4.1 gear , 28" Pro Bracket radial , solid flat tappett , 0.520 lift / 258@050 , CNC stealths ,HP1000 holley , Victor 440 ,1 7/8 hooker headers+ exhaust to diff , pump gas . Best of 10.88@125ish mostly 10.90s. 3690lbs 68 Satellite .
Same short motor , TF270 , Super Victor , 4500 1050 , 30" Pro bracket radial , 6000 stall *" , 10.70@127ish.
Went to 2" Dougs D452 with the 505 and used them on the 440/TF270 motor .
505RB with 11:1 , same top end as 440 (Stealth / HP1000) , solid flat tappet .600 nett lift 272@050 ,10.50@127ish , 28" radial
505 with TF270, 4500 etc 10.25@129ish
Then split block whiney

Heck i went 11.20(?) with a 509 cam in that 440

This is my daily driver , in fact i am driving it interstate in a couple weeks to race . 11/12 hrs 1050kilometers(650 miles) each way

Tex




Last edited by tex013; 02/24/21 05:07 PM.

New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Mid to low 11s on pump gas? [Re: Old buddy] #2892799
02/24/21 06:19 PM
02/24/21 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,662
Western NC
440Jim Offline
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Western NC
Originally Posted by Old buddy
I was thinking something along the lines of Trick Flow 240 heads, roller solid camshaft, lightweight pistons, H beam rods, M1 Single plane, 950hp Holley or AED, all MSD ignition, TTI 2" step headers, fuel cell with -8 line to the regulator with -6 going to the float bowls. Will a stock stroke 440 get me to mid 11s and lower if I decided I wanted to go quicker? I really dont want to shift this car much over 62-6400 if that helps.

I appreciate any advice
Yes, your basic combo will get you there. Don't be afraid of some converter stall speed to improve track performance, ~3800-4200 rpm.
But since you are putting new H-beam rods and good pistons in the build, adding the 4.250" stroke crankshaft won't cost much more. Then you have a base for a 10 second "street" car.
With the stroker, I would suggest the Trick Flow 270 vs the 240 heads. Now finding a new pair of Trick Flow heads right now will be tough...

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