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Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2891889
02/22/21 01:58 PM
02/22/21 01:58 PM
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mgoblue9798 Offline
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What kind of AFR are you running at cruise and what timing?

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2891976
02/22/21 06:53 PM
02/22/21 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
What kind of AFR are you running at cruise and what timing?


~14/1 is what I saw cruise, and with the local 10% ethanol fuel it's about right or even lean
of course I live at 4,000'

timing is via https://www.mopar1.us/engine2.html (charts at the bottom)

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2892177
02/23/21 10:05 AM
02/23/21 10:05 AM
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Let me add .. you best have a big torque 413 to pull through a lock up and overdrive transmission..


cheap, nosy, obnoxious? ...moi ?? ... just call it a HOBBY !!
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2892183
02/23/21 10:16 AM
02/23/21 10:16 AM
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Salem
Grizzly Online tonguue
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Originally Posted by Ray S


That's pretty good
I got 10.5 in my Southwind years ago with headers and a few mods

A few people put Cummins in their Travcos and get 14-15 usually with a 48RE behind it


Oh, for sure, it would be the perfect home for a Cummins. With diesel costing more than gas I would be more willing to turbo the V10. At least if I blow it up I can always get another V10 from the Wreckers for $800.00. Power isn't that much of an issue at the weight I'm at, I would just turbo it to up my fuel mileage a bit more. I have two T3's to do it, but I just got this machine so going to leave it alone for the time being.

I did upsize the rubber (19.5's to 22.5's) to get more mechanical advantage out of it. Using the Torq App and bluetooth OBD connector for data, it is so far showing better fuel mileage with the bigger rubber. I stay under 60mph with mine, the only ones getting 5mpg out of these things are the guys in the hammer lane, of which I will never understand.

Looks like you have a well-sorted plan, nice job. up


Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2892185
02/23/21 10:24 AM
02/23/21 10:24 AM
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A huffed V10 ?

Oh Lord ... the uNsanity continues .. xmaseek

Double tonguue atcha !


cheap, nosy, obnoxious? ...moi ?? ... just call it a HOBBY !!
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2892397
02/23/21 05:33 PM
02/23/21 05:33 PM
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What RV are you running Grizzly?

Link to a converter I came across shopping.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hup-15lfuel/applications

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2892615
02/24/21 09:56 AM
02/24/21 09:56 AM
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Salem
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It's a 2006 Gulfstream Indepence, F53 Ford chassis. Removed the S110 axle 19.5's and put the big Spicer S150 axle in myself along with front hubs to change over to the 22.5 wheels/tires. Big job. Like everything, Ford doesn't make anything easy, even the part numbers and diagrams are impossible to find.

You guys need to post up photos of your RVs. up That picture in your profile Ray just isn't enough to go on. grin

IMG_20200815_144154.jpgDSCN1309.JPG

Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2892655
02/24/21 11:28 AM
02/24/21 11:28 AM
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Grizzly, I think you may be my brother from another mother. I have a challenger convertible I am working on as well to take with us on some of my wife and I's trips.

My travco isn't much to look at now, I just got her and have not yet even gotten it home to give it a bath. She has been sitting for a while..

DodgeTravco3 (2).jpgDodgeTravco2 (2).jpg
Last edited by mgoblue9798; 02/24/21 11:53 AM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2892848
02/24/21 07:44 PM
02/24/21 07:44 PM
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Salem
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Great minds think alike. up

Be prepared: you'll get a lots of Gawkers and People coming up to you to talk when you get your Challenger on the back of yours. grin

Neat machine you have there, I really like that Travco L'Espirit you educated me on in the other thread. Renovating older RV's is getting to be a hot thing, the price of older machines have really gone up because of it.

Side note, you can't even tell the car is back there, that F53 is the best chassis for RVs. They've owned the gasoline market for a number of years and now Ford has it all to themselves.

Travco on Bring a Trailer




30.jpg31.jpg

Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2894263
03/01/21 01:25 AM
03/01/21 01:25 AM
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Ray S Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Grizzly

You guys need to post up photos of your RVs. up That picture in your profile Ray just isn't enough to go on. grin


https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...re-lets-see-your-trucks.html#Post2889316
and
https://www.facebook.com/71.Dodge.Travco

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894471
03/01/21 03:33 PM
03/01/21 03:33 PM
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Salem
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Nice!

Correction on my fuel mileage for moving from 19.5's to 22.5's: it worked out to 9.4 mpg.


Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894802
03/02/21 12:58 PM
03/02/21 12:58 PM
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OK, I spoke to both Transtech (Iowa) and Phoenix Transmission Products (Texas) and both said they did not have a product for a heavy vehicle.
Transtech said the welded-on bell will not accept a large TC - needed for the 413 RV, and Phoenix only builds A-500 mods, not 518.
JW Performance Transmission does not have an Ultrabell to do it.

So, it looks like the Wilcap adapter and finding a 47RH is the only solution.

Along this line, has anyone heard of or used Hughes TCs?
http://www.hughesperformance.com/xtm-xfm/
they said they have a 24XTM for the 727, and a 15LXTM for the 47RH, both for towing etc.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894814
03/02/21 01:18 PM
03/02/21 01:18 PM
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The Ultrabell response was mysterious since "flyinlow" put a 518 onto his 440 Charger
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,65534.0.html
but apparently that was the "small" TC referred to, which works fine in a passenger car they say.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894815
03/02/21 01:18 PM
03/02/21 01:18 PM
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Ray, my main concern with this set up is the clutch in the lock up converter. Unless someone has seriously upgraded clutch material and surface area, I question how long it would live in our application. I am trying to get answers about that from different converter companies before purchasing.

I may wind up not running a lock up. With both the hollow input shaft and clutch in the converter being weaker links, I would rather build a non lockup than build something that has to come out for rebuild again in a year or two. Couple places sell low rpm converters. Combine that with a nice cooler and it would mitigate heat issues.

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 03/02/21 01:19 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894861
03/02/21 02:47 PM
03/02/21 02:47 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Originally Posted by Ray S
OK, I spoke to both Transtech (Iowa) and Phoenix Transmission Products (Texas) and both said they did not have a product for a heavy vehicle.
Transtech said the welded-on bell will not accept a large TC - needed for the 413 RV, and Phoenix only builds A-500 mods, not 518.
JW Performance Transmission does not have an Ultrabell to do it.

So, it looks like the Wilcap adapter and finding a 47RH is the only solution.

Along this line, has anyone heard of or used Hughes TCs?
http://www.hughesperformance.com/xtm-xfm/
they said they have a 24XTM for the 727, and a 15LXTM for the 47RH, both for towing etc.

The 47RH was only for the diesel and V10 applications. In that application the converter sticks out from the bell housing face about an inch or more and it's overall diameter is much larger, so a 47RH isn't really going to help you.
What you are basically needing is a billet cover single disc lockup converter for a gas 727. No one I know of makes it because you would need not only the Ultra Bell for the B engine adaption but also a spacer between the engine and trans for the extra depth and then you would still be limited to the smaller diameter converter. I've never said this before but you might have better luck, or at least more converter options with a Turbo 400 for what you are trying to do.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2894947
03/02/21 05:56 PM
03/02/21 05:56 PM
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Guitar, what is wrong with using 11" converter? There are options out there if using the adapter kit. Now I have some concern about the lock up clutch, but this one has the billet cover so one step in the right direction. http://stores.hi-potek.com/hipotek-...r-dodge-jeep-518-and-46re-transmissions/

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2894962
03/02/21 06:31 PM
03/02/21 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Guitar, what is wrong with using 11" converter? There are options out there if using the adapter kit. Now I have some concern about the lock up clutch, but this one has the billet cover so one step in the right direction. http://stores.hi-potek.com/hipotek-...r-dodge-jeep-518-and-46re-transmissions/


That is as close as you are going to get with a 46RH. I honestly don't know how that would hold up in his application though. The billet cover and lockup clutch take up room in the converter that the turbine, stator and impeller occupy so all those components have to be smaller, which equals weaker. It's one of the reasons high horsepower automatic drag cars use GM transmissions, the bell housing is deeper.
You could of course have someone build a special one off converter (expensive) and space the trans back but then the crossmember needs to be moved and the driveshaft shortened. Maybe not a big deal in Ray's case but is in others. I had to do that when I converted my '92 diesel to a lockup. Everything had to move rearward 1.250".


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2894971
03/02/21 07:18 PM
03/02/21 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones

The 47RH was only for the diesel and V10 applications. In that application the converter sticks out from the bell housing face about an inch or more and it's overall diameter is much larger, so a 47RH isn't really going to help you.
What you are basically needing is a billet cover single disc lockup converter for a gas 727. No one I know of makes it because you would need not only the Ultra Bell for the B engine adaption but also a spacer between the engine and trans for the extra depth and then you would still be limited to the smaller diameter converter. I've never said this before but you might have better luck, or at least more converter options with a Turbo 400 for what you are trying to do.


So the 47RH/618 front is that different than the 46RH/A-518? There are a lot of adapters and there have been a lot of 518s bolted to 440s.
I spoke to a number of people re the MH application
https://www.transdepot.net/46RH-47RH-48RH-Dodge-Stage-1-Transmission-89-95_p_138.html
https://www.bullripper.com/HEAVY-DUTY-A518-p/b30.htm

My 47RE in my 5.9 B3500 van is supposedly also adaptable to the RB/BB, but I wanted to avoid a electronic controller. It was built with all upgraded hard parts at the time (the extra planets etc)

I got a quote for a 700R4 Chevy, but they would not warrantee it in a MH application...

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2895079
03/03/21 12:54 AM
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Appreciate the input. Like you I am not sure about any of the lock up converters living in an RV. I have emails in to several places and will see what they have to say. As far as the fabbing goes, I put a 518 behind the 340 in my Challenger in 1994. Truck chassis would be a piece of cake. Fab a mount and cut the driveshaft and it is done save for bolt ons and a couple wires. I think I have talked myself into pulling my 518 non lockup core down to see what it needs for this build. If I want still lower rpms I can run my gear vendor unit being the 518 and have double overdrive at about .54 to 1.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2895080
03/03/21 01:46 AM
03/03/21 01:46 AM
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Both of the links you posted have transmissions that are misidentified. Again the 47RH was a diesel and V10 only transmission for the 94-95 model year. They are all lockup style. The 47RE and 48RE were diesel and V10 applications only for 96 MY and up until they stopped, all lockup style. The 46RH/518 was for gas engines 88 or 89 (I forget exactly but the early ones had smaller 5/16 cooler lines) and up and diesels 91.5-93. They came in lockup and non lockup styles. All the diesel versions were non lockup. So unless you have a 5.9 Cummins in your van you don't have a 47RE in it, you have a 46RH if it's hydraulically controlled or a 46RE if it is electronically controlled. You can put some of the 47/48 internals into a 46 case but not everything.
The diesel and V10 bell housing is large and accepts a larger diameter torque converter. The converter also protrudes from the face of the bellhousing about an inch or so when fully seated vs the 1/2" the converter is recessed into the face of the bellhousing on gas versions and non lockup diesel versions. It's not because the bell is cut back, it's because the converter is thicker to accommodate larger, heavier duty components.
You could cut the bell off a 46 or 47 and use an Ultra Bell for a 727 to B/RB pattern or an adapter for the 46 gas engine trans but you are still stuck with the smaller and narrower converter. That may be fine for your application, I don't honestly know. My concern would be the durability of the smaller converter and lockup clutch to handle that weight with that kind of wind resistance as well. It will always be under load.
I burned through a stock lockup clutch with my slightly warmed over 12 valve pretty quickly and I wasn't even towing with it yet. I'm probably only making about 500 lb/ft. I put a single disc billet cover converter in it and it's been fine since even with some pretty heavy towing.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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