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Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? #2891647
02/21/21 08:38 PM
02/21/21 08:38 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
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Lets say rpm limit is 7k and engine size is 555.....There are a number of combinations to get near the cube limit, but which would be quicker? A smaller bore and big stroke, or a big bore small stroke?


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891650
02/21/21 08:46 PM
02/21/21 08:46 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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My thinking is that steep rod angles hurt power. I'd llean towards a bore that's equal to or larger than the stroke. but that's only my thought, I'm not an engine builder.

Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891651
02/21/21 08:51 PM
02/21/21 08:51 PM
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Posts: 1,020
Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
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67_Satellite Offline
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A lot of other factors go into which would be "quicker", but for a given engine family, go with the biggest bore which is practical, then adjust stroke to get the cubes desired.

Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891663
02/21/21 09:05 PM
02/21/21 09:05 PM
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Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Irving, TX
Bigger bores mean more reciprocating weight and more drag.

I imagine the proper answer is a nice blend of the two.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891672
02/21/21 09:24 PM
02/21/21 09:24 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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I'm thinking the type of motor, N/A or what type power adder, will have something to do which works better. scope
Don't most of the faster all out Pro Stock N/A motors have a 4.625 size bore with less than 4.0 inch stroke to make 500 C.I.. On your deal I would look at 4.5+ on the bore and around 4.375 stroke to get close to 555 C.I. scope Adjust as needed wrench up
My next all out N/A motor will start as a 4.500 bore Koleno block with a older 4.375 stroke Bryant top fuel full counter weighted crankshaft with 2.200 rod journals with B1-MC heads and a pair of Dominator carbs up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891681
02/21/21 09:46 PM
02/21/21 09:46 PM
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Massillon, Ohio
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cudatom Offline
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Not sure but I ended up going with 4.5 bore and a 4.35 stroke. Using 7.1 rods with 2.2 rod journals. Ends up being a tad over 553 CI.


Ok
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: cudatom] #2891691
02/21/21 10:08 PM
02/21/21 10:08 PM
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Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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On gasoline, the biggest bore possible makes the most power, because moving the cylinder wall away from the valve improves flow. Assuming adequate cylinder wall thickness for effective ring seal.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891692
02/21/21 10:10 PM
02/21/21 10:10 PM
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Souderton
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Taylor Offline
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Wedge or Hemi ? Wedge the big bore Short stroke seems to be the go to...... Canted valve leans towards Big Bore short stroke also
.... for Hemi....... I don't think it matters as much.

Current Pro stock thinking is 4.71-4.75 bore and stroke in the 3.5, 3.55 depending on deck height rods are in the 5.95-6.10 range .Last DRCE my uncle built was a 8.70 DH , 4.71X3.55 with 6.10 C to C rods.


04 Ram 4x2 11.66@ 122 4750LBS ...phat pig Moves for fully loaded truck with NA 345ci Hemi
2020 1320 Challenger....stock daily driver.
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Taylor] #2891698
02/21/21 10:39 PM
02/21/21 10:39 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Stroke will make more power, most engines can only go .060 but you can stroke them 1/2 inch or more. Chevy, I know I know, 427-4.25 bore x 3.75 stroke, 454 4.25 bore x 4.00 stroke, which makes more power turning same rpm?

Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: cudaman1969] #2891720
02/22/21 12:12 AM
02/22/21 12:12 AM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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One of the magazines did a big bore short stroke vice versa dyno comparison some years ago. Same heads, cam and induction.

I don't recall the difference being more than a few HP.

As far as which one might be faster, I suspect if there is any difference between 2 engines that make the sameish power, it will be the engine that can accelerate itself the quickest.

Kevin

Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Twostick] #2891725
02/22/21 12:39 AM
02/22/21 12:39 AM
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Fulton County, PA
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500 inch blown fuel engines are long stroke, small bore. 500 inch gasoline ProStock engines are big bore, short stroke.

Torque monster - more stroke. Peaky high RPM - big bore, big valves.

7k limit would favor a long stroke.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891729
02/22/21 12:58 AM
02/22/21 12:58 AM
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Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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From my experience, you want the biggest bore, and still keep the cylinder walls thick enough they do not flex, you don't make any power if the rings don't stay sealed under power. And on the dyno testing, just keeping track of the engines I dynoed, the peak numbers may be close, but those that I did the average HP numbers were always higher on the big bore engines, and higher average numbers usually will out run higher peak numbers given the same chassis combination. The best example was to 383 small block chey's I built for mud jeeps. One was a 350 block stroked, the other was a 400 de-stroked. The 350 had some better heads, and made about 20HP more, but the 400 had better average numbers, in the mud pit, the 400 jeep smoked the 350 block.

Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: CMcAllister] #2891740
02/22/21 02:20 AM
02/22/21 02:20 AM
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Minnesota
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Originally Posted by CMcAllister
500 inch blown fuel engines are long stroke, small bore.

7k limit would favor a long stroke.


The fuel motors really need the wall thickness. Plus the slow burning nitro doesn't mind the long stroke.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Twostick] #2891792
02/22/21 10:27 AM
02/22/21 10:27 AM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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Same heads, cam and induction

That's the reason.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891841
02/22/21 12:31 PM
02/22/21 12:31 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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In the mid-level typical bracket race engine(1.5-ish hp/ci), assuming the head/induction/exhaust are identical between the two configurations(and are appropriately sized for the desired output) I would expect the power difference to be negligible, especially if there is going to be an upper rpm limit of 7K.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2891845
02/22/21 12:40 PM
02/22/21 12:40 PM
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Las Vegas
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7000 rpm is the limiting factor IMO. Would likely flavor more stroke. But generally a bigger bore will make more power than more stroke, but when you are talking BB Mopar the bores are not very large for sure. The old saying bore makes power stroke moves where it happens.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: polyspheric] #2891848
02/22/21 12:54 PM
02/22/21 12:54 PM
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Minnesota
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
Same heads, cam and induction

That's the reason.


Why would you keep everything the same? The bore and stroke needs to be considered when building the rest of the motor. You can use a bigger intake valve if you have a 4.5-in bore versus a 4.310 bore. Cam events would be different with a shorter stroke versus longer stroke, and the intake. That's the problem with some of these comparisons that the magazines and TV shows do. They don't build the motor around the one variable that they are testing.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2891855
02/22/21 01:22 PM
02/22/21 01:22 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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As long as the bore doesn't restrict the size of the intake valve at the desired RPM level, it doesn't make much difference. If your combo needs more valve and it won't fit. Then it needs more bore.
Doug

Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: dvw] #2891862
02/22/21 01:36 PM
02/22/21 01:36 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
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Dragula  Offline OP
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted by dvw
As lon[s][/s]g as the bore doesn't restrict the size of the intake valve at the desired RPM level, it doesn't make much difference. If your combo needs more valve and it won't fit. Then it needs more bore.
Doug


So the bigger bore shows its an advantage right there.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Which is Faster, Bore & Stroke ? [Re: Dragula] #2891878
02/22/21 02:26 PM
02/22/21 02:26 PM
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Posts: 8,230
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
You don’t understand, ya gotta play with what you have available. Really like to see some of these 5” bore mopar engines. Like hitting a nail, short swing, nail won’t go deep, big swing that nail going clear thru. Bigger hammer might help a little but big swing gets the job DONE. One of the 5 basic tools, a lever!

Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/22/21 02:26 PM.
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