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Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? #2890793
02/19/21 10:49 PM
02/19/21 10:49 PM
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Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline OP
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... I’ve built a few motors and done lots of mechanical work ... BUT NOT LIKE SOME HERE !

Me ? ... rod and mains.. head bolts ... most times INTAKE BOLTS ...,

BUTTTT ... oil pan and water pump bolts ? ... etc ?? !!

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: dOc !] #2890806
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Pretty much just cam sprockets, bearing caps and head bolts. But with over 45 years as an auto mechanic I have a pretty good feel for things.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Guitar Jones] #2890808
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On an engine, pretty much everything EXCEPT some intake bolts that there is no way to get a torque wrench on (middle bolts on a 340 come to mind). I also torque lug nuts and some suspension nuts (ball joints, tie rods).

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Jim_Lusk] #2890826
02/20/21 12:14 AM
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Southern Alberta
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If I can get a torque wrench on it, I'll do it to spec.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Uberpube] #2890835
02/20/21 02:05 AM
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Tucson, AZ
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Important stuff. Engine internals, things like that. Beyond that, I am pretty well calibrated and can feel what is right.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Ramrod39] #2890892
02/20/21 10:01 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Anything that specifies more than 30 foot pounds.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Stanton] #2890915
02/20/21 10:51 AM
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North Dakota
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I torque everything that has a specification. I find that even after decades I tend to over tighten smaller fasteners (< 3/8" or so) and under tighten larger fasteners (> 3/8" or so). I've gone to grade 8 on any 1/4" bolt as I pop the stock fasteners like candy. Intake gasket end rails on a BB as one example. The only notable exception is the oil pan. That I use gasket compression to know when to stop.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Stanton] #2890919
02/20/21 10:54 AM
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Sniper Offline
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Everything.

Even the inner intake bolts

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Sniper] #2890946
02/20/21 11:57 AM
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Engine internals, heads and intake gasket. Other then that I mostly only do something if it's hard to get to once everything is fully assembled or if it's a part I don't want to take off again or gasket failure might have been part of the original problem.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 5thAve] #2890987
02/20/21 12:57 PM
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Michigan
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Head bolts, rod bolts, main caps, rockers shaft bolts, etc. Don't think I've ever torqued intake bolts, oil pan bolts or anything on the front of the motor for that matter. I'm anal about the tightening sequence though.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: MarkZ] #2890997
02/20/21 01:05 PM
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Central Pa
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moparjim79 Offline
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Here's a thought too-- is it not just as important to follow the steps/procedure/sequences incrementally as it is to torque to "value"? Example: (generic) lets say head bolts need 110 ftlbs., who feels ok just jammin' them away to said torque spec following the sequence? Or do you go incrementally (20ftlbs, 40 ftlbs, etc)?

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: moparjim79] #2891056
02/20/21 02:37 PM
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Incremental is the way it should be done and the way I like to do it, but let 's face it, unless this is a high performance car it probably isn't going to matter. There is a difference between a race engine and a stock daily driver. For instance, for a driver just torquing rod bolts is fine, for a race engine, the bolt stretch method should be mandatory.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Guitar Jones] #2891076
02/20/21 03:09 PM
02/20/21 03:09 PM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Head bolts, Rod bearings, main bearings, flywheel bolts, lug nuts. That is about it.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: dOc !] #2891099
02/20/21 03:47 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Since the OP wasn't engine-specific, don't forget lug nuts.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 6PakBee] #2891132
02/20/21 04:35 PM
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Minnesota
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Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I torque everything that has a specification. I find that even after decades I tend to over tighten smaller fasteners (< 3/8" or so) and under tighten larger fasteners (> 3/8" or so). I've gone to grade 8 on any 1/4" bolt as I pop the stock fasteners like candy. Intake gasket end rails on a BB as one example. The only notable exception is the oil pan. That I use gasket compression to know when to stop.


About the same here plus I use a torque wrench on the air cleaner wing nut, hose clamps, and trim screws. luck laugh2


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Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2891198
02/20/21 08:30 PM
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Michigan
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Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I torque everything that has a specification. I find that even after decades I tend to over tighten smaller fasteners (< 3/8" or so) and under tighten larger fasteners (> 3/8" or so). I've gone to grade 8 on any 1/4" bolt as I pop the stock fasteners like candy. Intake gasket end rails on a BB as one example. The only notable exception is the oil pan. That I use gasket compression to know when to stop.


About the same here plus I use a torque wrench on the air cleaner wing nut, hose clamps, and trim screws. luck laugh2


Just like the vehicle assembly plants - they use DC nut runners on everything.

And the manufacturing plants use them too along with “multiples”.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: A727Tflite] #2891206
02/20/21 08:53 PM
02/20/21 08:53 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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45 years ago couldn’t keep oil pan bolts from coming lose or falling out on the race car, on a whim I looked in a service manual, used the torque and never came lose again. Long story short I torque EVERYTHING I can get to at factory spec.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2891223
02/20/21 09:27 PM
02/20/21 09:27 PM
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Central Pa
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moparjim79 Offline
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[/quote]

About the same here plus I use a torque wrench on the air cleaner wing nut, hose clamps, and trim screws. luck laugh2 [/quote]

That was awesome

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: moparjim79] #2891246
02/20/21 10:43 PM
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Pretty much everything I can get a torque wrench on. I don`t torque valve cover and oil pan bolts as I do them by feel. As a side note, I remember when I was young I asked a mechanic at the local dealer what was the torque spec for main caps bolts and head bolts for a small block mopar. He said I don`t know I just use my air gun and crank them down. I laughed as I thought he was joking. He said I`m not joking I work flat rate and I don`T have time for that. He added that he never has any come backs.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: mopars4ever] #2891251
02/20/21 10:54 PM
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Sniper Offline
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I find a correlation between the lack of using a torque wrench and leaky valve covers and oil pans.

I am lazy, I prefer to do the job once.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: cudaman1969] #2891253
02/20/21 10:59 PM
02/20/21 10:59 PM
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Colleyville
3hundred Offline
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
45 years ago couldn’t keep oil pan bolts from coming lose or falling out on the race car, on a whim I looked in a service manual, used the torque and never came lose again. Long story short I torque EVERYTHING I can get to at factory spec.


I used to have trouble with transmission pans. After I found we had an inch pound wrench I used the spec, typically 12 in lbs, found it took several rounds to get them all tight at once, no more leaks.


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 3hundred] #2891283
02/21/21 12:55 AM
02/21/21 12:55 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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About 30 years ago I lost the ability to be able to know how tight bolts were by hand tightening. Torquing everything is a royal pain. Over the last 15 or so years, I don't do much stuff that requires specific torque anymore. Just one of several reasons I became a welder. Gene

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: poorboy] #2891295
02/21/21 02:55 AM
02/21/21 02:55 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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I remember a older Service station mechanic telling me that he had calibrated elbows on most tightening he did on cars in that stations bays.
I will use a inch lb. torque wrench and convert the lighter ft. lbs. into inch lbs. like using 23 Ft. Lbs. on 5/16 bolts, 23x12=276 inch lbs. 20x12=240 + 3x12=36. 36+240= 276


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: dOc !] #2891304
02/21/21 06:47 AM
02/21/21 06:47 AM
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Australia
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Mcode69 Offline
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Heads, rods and mains here down under !

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2891331
02/21/21 09:27 AM
02/21/21 09:27 AM
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North Dakota
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Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I torque everything that has a specification. I find that even after decades I tend to over tighten smaller fasteners (< 3/8" or so) and under tighten larger fasteners (> 3/8" or so). I've gone to grade 8 on any 1/4" bolt as I pop the stock fasteners like candy. Intake gasket end rails on a BB as one example. The only notable exception is the oil pan. That I use gasket compression to know when to stop.


About the same here plus I use a torque wrench on the air cleaner wing nut, hose clamps, and trim screws. luck laugh2


What is the torque spec on an air cleaner wing nut, hose clamps, and trim screws? After all, you said you used a torque wrench to tighten them, you must know. smirk


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 6PakBee] #2891345
02/21/21 10:15 AM
02/21/21 10:15 AM
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Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline OP
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I’m surprised....

NO one mentions the critical torque spec of the ......




Muffler bearing

Maybe the apimp from Bend oVeR can check in xmaseek

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: dOc !] #2891348
02/21/21 10:19 AM
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Quote
I find a correlation between the lack of using a torque wrench and leaky valve covers and oil pans.
Quite the opposite for me. They are the only ones I have found that needed hand tightening instead of a torque wrench. All seemed to be too loose.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: mopars4ever] #2891350
02/21/21 10:22 AM
02/21/21 10:22 AM
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Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline OP
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Oil pan bolts?

Did you apimp THROW OUT the special nyLock bolts tsk

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: dOc !] #2891413
02/21/21 11:57 AM
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Richmond, Indiana
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I use a torque wrench on all mechanical assemblies where I can actually gain enough clearence to do so. When I can't, it bothers me!


1970 340 swinger. sublime
1967 barracuda fastback BB
55 Plymouth Project
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 19swinger70] #2891430
02/21/21 12:29 PM
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I think you need to be more specific. Putting together older iron is completely different than the late model stuff. Not following specific torque specs/sequences on late model stuff(especially TTY bolts) will guarantee failures.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Dcuda69] #2891491
02/21/21 02:15 PM
02/21/21 02:15 PM
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north of coder
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crank 'em down till they strip or break, then back 'em off 1/2 turn........... devil boogie whistling
beer

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: dOc !] #2891625
02/21/21 07:32 PM
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Rod, main, & head bolts - yes
Lug nuts on any import or an American car newer than mid 80's. Yes
Exotic unfamiliar engine parts like Cam Phasers or some other unusual item that looks like it could warp under too much pressure, I look up and torque to spec too.

Anything else I will torque with experience and the industry standard spiral sequence.

I never thought of anything else having a torque spec until I watched a terminator movie and Arnold used a torque wrench on a starter. I thought that's weird and then it hit me, oh yeah there is probably a spec for everything. LOL

I also only use Red threadlocker (Permanent) and never blue (Temporary). Especially on cam bolts, even if it isn't required.

I also incrementally torque nearly everything and never tighten any one bolt until all the bolts are started and run most of the way in. I can not tell you how many newbie mechanics just start popping in bolts & tighten away, and then they have to loosen them all to get the last few in.


Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: mopars4ever] #2891628
02/21/21 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mopars4ever
Quote
I find a correlation between the lack of using a torque wrench and leaky valve covers and oil pans.
Quite the opposite for me. They are the only ones I have found that needed hand tightening instead of a torque wrench. All seemed to be too loose.


I'm thinking of the ones reefed down so hard that they warp the rails and never seal. Both ends of the spectrum are bad.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 3hundred] #2891783
02/22/21 10:18 AM
02/22/21 10:18 AM
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W. Kentucky
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Originally Posted by 3hundred

I used to have trouble with transmission pans. After I found we had an inch pound wrench I used the spec, typically 12 in lbs, found it took several rounds to get them all tight at once, no more leaks.


Same here, oil pans and valve covers too.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: justinp61] #2891801
02/22/21 10:48 AM
02/22/21 10:48 AM
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Michigan
MarkZ Offline
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Originally Posted by justinp61
Originally Posted by 3hundred

I used to have trouble with transmission pans. After I found we had an inch pound wrench I used the spec, typically 12 in lbs, found it took several rounds to get them all tight at once, no more leaks.


Same here, oil pans and valve covers too.


Type of pan/cover and gasket probably matters as well. If you're using a cork gasket with a stamped steel cover, then torque spec is crucial. I've been using cast aluminum covers/pans with anti-crush gaskets now for years and don't have any issues with hand tightening. Still using a stamped oil pan, but for that I bought Andy's pan reinforcements.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: justinp61] #2891908
02/22/21 03:42 PM
02/22/21 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by justinp61
Originally Posted by 3hundred

I used to have trouble with transmission pans. After I found we had an inch pound wrench I used the spec, typically 12 in lbs, found it took several rounds to get them all tight at once, no more leaks.


Same here, oil pans and valve covers too.


#1 important thing for pans and covers is clean and check them with a straight edge. Too many gorillas work on the car before me and think tighten it until it bends the wrench and the pan.

For trans/oil/valve covers I do not use anything bigger than a 1/4" drive ratchet. Same thing with plastic intakes.

I do follow the gasket manufacturers recommendation about sealant but if it doesn't have specs I do this.
Trans pans I oil both sides of the gasket and snug repeatedly in a crisscross pattern until it feels good or the gasket starts to just barely squeeze out.
Oil pan I spread a thin thin smear of sealant on both sides of the gasket and snug repeatedly in a crisscross pattern until it feels good or the gasket starts to just barely squeeze out.
Valve covers, I use sealant on the valve cover side of the gasket and oil on the bottom of the gasket then snug then repeatedly in a crisscross pattern until it feels good or the gasket starts to just barely squeeze out.

If I have a leak I snug a little more but that doesn't happen often and it is usually when a center bolt valve cover has been bent in the middle.

The most important thing is to do what works best for you.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: MarkZ] #2891938
02/22/21 05:30 PM
02/22/21 05:30 PM
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ILLINOIS
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volaredon Offline
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Pffft.... not much. usually just internal engine bolts. Head, rod, main, sometimes manifolds.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: dOc !] #2891947
02/22/21 06:15 PM
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Keep a “fisherman’s scale” in your tool box and every wrench becomes a torque wrench.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 360view] #2891951
02/22/21 06:18 PM
02/22/21 06:18 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
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Originally Posted by 360view
Keep a “fisherman’s scale” in your tool box and every wrench becomes a torque wrench.

IF you factor the length of the wrench into the calculation!

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: IMGTX] #2891953
02/22/21 06:20 PM
02/22/21 06:20 PM
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Florida STAYcation
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i m a GORILLA is not uncorrect... wave

Those damn pan rails are a bummer tsk

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: dOc !] #2893117
02/25/21 05:52 PM
02/25/21 05:52 PM
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How about the front suspension bolts. Anybody concerned with these?

When you turn bolts everyday for a career you can get really good at getting bolts to proper torque by hand it you pay attention.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: NANKET] #2893237
02/25/21 11:08 PM
02/25/21 11:08 PM
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Ontario, Canada
RealWing Offline
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I can usually tell what torque to apply after many many years of experience as well, however, every one of the front suspension bolts on my current '69 Barracuda restoration are torqued to spec.
Jim

IMG_7708_1024x768.jpeg

1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: RealWing] #2893297
02/26/21 09:35 AM
02/26/21 09:35 AM
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Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Sniper] #2893315
02/26/21 10:29 AM
02/26/21 10:29 AM
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Ohio
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Realwing, is that a home made roll around under you eng./trans?

Looks good, care to share how you fabbed it?
The furniture movers we have aren't going to cut it for mobility.

Thanks, Joe

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Sniper] #2893319
02/26/21 10:40 AM
02/26/21 10:40 AM
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North Dakota
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.



I'm not so sure that applies to all people. When I was going to college I worked part time at the local Chrysler dealer. One thing I did was new car pre-delivery preparation (dealer prep). One of the items on the checklist was to make sure the front wheel bearings were adjusted properly, So I was working on a new car and had the torque wrench out adjusting the front wheel bearings as per the FSM procedure. The senior mechanic walked over and asked me what I was doing. Told him, he laughed that you could do that by hand, didn't need a torque wrench. This is 1974 and I'm young, dumb, and headstrong so I proceed to tell him it can't be done. Now this is a guy that has worked on Mopars since 1947 and has done it all. So it ended up in a challenge. I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again and over the next year I learned a lot from that old fart. Passed away about 20 years go. Great loss of talent. Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 6PakBee] #2893374
02/26/21 01:17 PM
02/26/21 01:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,225
Looking for a way out of Middl...
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Originally Posted by 6PakBee
Originally Posted by Sniper
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.



Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head.


I'm about to do that on a 440 Chrysler 300. My plan was a plumbing bar clamp. I would be very interested in his way.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Sniper] #2893392
02/26/21 02:17 PM
02/26/21 02:17 PM
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WI
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.



Yep! Our Snap on guy did a demo for our classes at school. None, I mean NONE of us were right on and that includes a few of us with 30+ years turning wrenches. Like I said earlier....new stuff is WAY different than stuff built 50 years ago. If you're not torquing stuff you're begging for come backs.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 6PakBee] #2893393
02/26/21 02:20 PM
02/26/21 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 6PakBee
Originally Posted by Sniper
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.



I'm not so sure that applies to all people. When I was going to college I worked part time at the local Chrysler dealer. One thing I did was new car pre-delivery preparation (dealer prep). One of the items on the checklist was to make sure the front wheel bearings were adjusted properly, So I was working on a new car and had the torque wrench out adjusting the front wheel bearings as per the FSM procedure. The senior mechanic walked over and asked me what I was doing. Told him, he laughed that you could do that by hand, didn't need a torque wrench. This is 1974 and I'm young, dumb, and headstrong so I proceed to tell him it can't be done. Now this is a guy that has worked on Mopars since 1947 and has done it all. So it ended up in a challenge. I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again and over the next year I learned a lot from that old fart. Passed away about 20 years go. Great loss of talent. Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head.


Maybe you need to go back and reread how to set front wheel bearing preload. Having just converted my 51 from the original style setup to the later style, such as used in 74, there is no torque on the bearings when you are done.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: IMGTX] #2893395
02/26/21 02:27 PM
02/26/21 02:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,698
North Dakota
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Originally Posted by IMGTX
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
Originally Posted by Sniper
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.



Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head.


I'm about to do that on a 440 Chrysler 300. My plan was a plumbing bar clamp. I would be very interested in his way.


IIRC what Vern did was use a bar and a block of wood against the firewall. Took a punch and, in combination with the bar, pressed on a side of the plug to turn it sideways. He then pulled it out with a smaller bar. Cleaned the bore up with some abrasive cloth (as I remember this was the worst part), then used a socket and the bar/wood combo to press the plug in. He was leveraging everything off the firewall using the wood block as a spreader. I can't remember him disconnecting the kickdown linkage or the throttle linkage but he must have as this was the driver's side head. This was a mid 60's Chrysler wagon if my memory isn't totally crap today.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Sniper] #2893397
02/26/21 02:30 PM
02/26/21 02:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,814
Kirkland, Washington
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
Originally Posted by Sniper
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.



I'm not so sure that applies to all people. When I was going to college I worked part time at the local Chrysler dealer. One thing I did was new car pre-delivery preparation (dealer prep). One of the items on the checklist was to make sure the front wheel bearings were adjusted properly, So I was working on a new car and had the torque wrench out adjusting the front wheel bearings as per the FSM procedure. The senior mechanic walked over and asked me what I was doing. Told him, he laughed that you could do that by hand, didn't need a torque wrench. This is 1974 and I'm young, dumb, and headstrong so I proceed to tell him it can't be done. Now this is a guy that has worked on Mopars since 1947 and has done it all. So it ended up in a challenge. I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again and over the next year I learned a lot from that old fart. Passed away about 20 years go. Great loss of talent. Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head.


Maybe you need to go back and reread how to set front wheel bearing preload. Having just converted my 51 from the original style setup to the later style, such as used in 74, there is no torque on the bearings when you are done.


The procedure still involves a torque spec to arrive at the desired result. Unless you are good at doing it without, and many people are.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Sniper] #2893435
02/26/21 04:06 PM
02/26/21 04:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,698
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
Originally Posted by Sniper
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.



I'm not so sure that applies to all people. When I was going to college I worked part time at the local Chrysler dealer. One thing I did was new car pre-delivery preparation (dealer prep). One of the items on the checklist was to make sure the front wheel bearings were adjusted properly, So I was working on a new car and had the torque wrench out adjusting the front wheel bearings as per the FSM procedure. The senior mechanic walked over and asked me what I was doing. Told him, he laughed that you could do that by hand, didn't need a torque wrench. This is 1974 and I'm young, dumb, and headstrong so I proceed to tell him it can't be done. Now this is a guy that has worked on Mopars since 1947 and has done it all. So it ended up in a challenge. I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again and over the next year I learned a lot from that old fart. Passed away about 20 years go. Great loss of talent. Sometime I'll tell the story about replacing the casting plug in the end of a 383 head...with the engine in the car....on the end that faces the firewall...without removing the head.


Maybe you need to go back and reread how to set front wheel bearing preload. Having just converted my 51 from the original style setup to the later style, such as used in 74, there is no torque on the bearings when you are done.



I couldn't find a '74 manual online but this is the procedure from the '73 manual.

Attached PDF document
1973 Wheel Bearings.pdf (54 downloads)

"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Guitar Jones] #2893492
02/26/21 07:38 PM
02/26/21 07:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Shopping @ HoBo Fright
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I just turn everything till it snaps off then back up 1 full measured turn


[img]https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/sig%20pics/2840886-340SIX-1.jpg[/img]
VP of the MPM in New Orleans
73 Dart Sport 340/ 70 challenger vert. That may still get built, If I live long enough
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: jlatessa] #2893499
02/26/21 07:57 PM
02/26/21 07:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
RealWing Offline
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Yes it is homemade. I attached a photo. If you need some measurements, let me know.
Jim

F09CBDB8-8919-4F81-90A2-501823DD06D7.jpeg

1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 6PakBee] #2893533
02/26/21 09:53 PM
02/26/21 09:53 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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I remember being taught about how to tighten front wheel bearing nuts after repacking the wheel bearings , on any GM or other brand cars that had ball bearing wheel bearings you would slowly tighten it up until you felt a tiny bit of resistant or tightness when spinning the tire and then back it, the nut, up a tiny bit and stick the cotter key in to retain the nut. wrench
On all the other cars with Timken tapered roller bearings we would tighten them up while spinning the tire by hand until it started to slow down a tiny bit and back it off, the nut, so you could install the outer nut cover so you could install the cotter key wrench
If you do the math conversion from inch lbs. to foot lbs. 70 inch lbs. = 5.83 ft. lbs., 90 inch pls. = 7.5 Ft lbs. shruggy work Is the difference between those two a tiny bit tight or just barely getting tight? work grin
Remember to calibrate your elbow at least once a week with a certified Ft. Lb. and Inch Lb. torque wrench before using it to judge torque wrench up grin


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2893537
02/26/21 10:13 PM
02/26/21 10:13 PM
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Ohio
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Ohio
Yes, thanks, a couple of dimensions will save me some time.
Do the two tabs in front locate in the k frame?

Thanks again, Joe

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: jlatessa] #2893540
02/26/21 10:36 PM
02/26/21 10:36 PM
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Ontario, Canada
RealWing Offline
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Originally Posted by jlatessa
Yes, thanks, a couple of dimensions will save me some time.
Do the two tabs in front locate in the k frame?

Thanks again, Joe


The 2 vertical pieces fit alongside the oil pan and support the engine/K Frame on the oil pan flange. US Car tools has one which is somewhat similar and locates in the K Frame http://store.uscartool.com/Mopar-K-Frame-Stand-Drivetrain-Restoration-Tool_p_84.html



Last edited by RealWing; 02/26/21 10:36 PM.

1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: RealWing] #2893606
02/27/21 08:24 AM
02/27/21 08:24 AM
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MI, usa
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I worked as a flat rate mechanic 35 plus years . In that scenario very few items were ever torqued. Can you feel the amount of torque? You can get pretty close. You get a pretty good feel for it. Even with power tools. Not everyone has this ability. Same as metal shaping, body work or anything else in life. It was obviously close enough. Stuff didn't break or fall off. Race stuff? I torque any thing I can.

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: jlatessa] #2893773
02/27/21 04:02 PM
02/27/21 04:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
RealWing Offline
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Originally Posted by jlatessa
Yes, thanks, a couple of dimensions will save me some time.
Do the two tabs in front locate in the k frame?

Thanks again, Joe

Some more photos and dimensions

engine transmission dolly dimensions.jpgIMG_7746_1024x768.jpegIMG_7747_1024x768.jpegIMG_7749_1024x768.jpeg

1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: RealWing] #2893815
02/27/21 05:39 PM
02/27/21 05:39 PM
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Ohio
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Thanks a bunch RealWing, I'm going to get started on it.

To the OP, sorry for the hijack, should have done a PM.

Joe

Re: Come on ... BE HONEST...what do you properly TORQUE... ? [Re: 6PakBee] #2895411
03/03/21 09:48 PM
03/03/21 09:48 PM
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Posts: 5,788
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
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Originally Posted by 6PakBee
Originally Posted by Sniper
Anyone that thinks they can tell how tight something is torqued "by hand" is fooling themselves.



I I'd do it by the book and he'd do it his way and we'd compare. So I set one side and make a small dimple on the nut so you could tell position. Loosened it up and he had a go at it (I covered the dimple with a bit of grease) and......he ended up in EXACTLY the same spot. I never questioned him again .



A front wheel bearing is unique. You are compressing 2 tapered wheel bearings. There IS a spot where they get tightened to and most of us can easily find it. Even the range from too loose there is backlash to too tight and it's hard to turn is pretty close to each other.

Anything that crushes a gasket like in the engine not only gets torqued to spec but a pattern is important. Rod bolts stretch when torqued properly, also important.
I always torque U bolts to rear housing too, it's not as tight as most of you "by feel" think it is. Every wheel and every suspension fastener and if it's crushing a sleeve, at ride height.


69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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