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OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 #2889319
02/16/21 06:06 PM
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Ray S Offline OP
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I have a 1971 Dodge M375 RV with 413 engine (6 bolt crank), 10k GAVW, and would like to upgrade to a locking OD trans rather than ever rebuild the A727 which has 70k miles (but runs OK).
What options are there?
I found 3 options for 47RH:
~$4.5k https://www.coperacingtrans.com/?product=crt-518-hd-1-transmission
~$4.5k https://transmissioncenter.net/product-category/dodge/?product-category=level-2-47re-47rh-618,level-2-48re-dodge
~$3k https://www.transdepot.net/46RH-47RH-48RH-Dodge-Stage-1-Transmission-89-95_p_138.html


A 700R4 is probably too weak to last, but Wilcap has an adapter
The ZF Dodge transmissions don't have RB 413/440 adapters (a real pity)
AFAIK there are no Allison adapters

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2889358
02/16/21 07:28 PM
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A friend put the Chevy 8 speed in his 68 Dart, with electronics was over 7 grand. I would look into the 727 and the over drive that bolts to the tail shaft (can’t think of the company). Also have to redo the rear trans mount to even do the factory od trans. Copes trans with adapter might be the best, they all will need an adapter. I’m looking to do same in my 79 truck, I have a 92 trans that I’m going to cut off the front part and weld the big block piece to it. like the factory SHOULD have done. I’m measuring now to see where the two cases match up. Even thought of using the Ultra Bell bolt on housing.(cut trans housing off and then it bolts to the front pump)
Look up PATC they have the wiring kit you need.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/16/21 07:31 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: cudaman1969] #2889366
02/16/21 07:41 PM
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I have an adapter kit for putting a small black transmission behind a bit block up for sale. Pm me if interested. It's the plate, flexplate, flexplate spacer, and bolts.


1949 International KB-2 "Mater" - 302/T5

1968 Dodge Dart GTS "The Drat" - 340/727

2006 Dodge Magnum R/T - Hemi

2016 Dodge Durango Limited - 3.6
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: cudaman1969] #2889406
02/16/21 08:52 PM
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John at https://www.coperacingtrans.com says he loans an alignment tool he made to get the adapter perfectly dialed into the crank centerline, using a dial indicator, made out of an old SB bell.
It seems that perfect alignment is not a given, so his plate pins are eccentric.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2889504
02/17/21 04:06 AM
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I have a new to me 1973 travco with the m375 chassis. I had planned to run a 413, but mine came with a 318 and a good 413 core has proved hard to find.
I will be building a 518 to go behind a 408 stroker. I don't know why it would need a 4k trans to live behind it. The 518's will live just fine without having to spend that kind of money. I am looking to see if someone builds a lock up torque converter with a heavy duty clutch though.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2889569
02/17/21 11:08 AM
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Keep an eye on your local Craigslist or facebook marketplace for a 2wd Ram with a V10 automatic in it. You can get the whole truck for about a quarter of the price of the re-builds you listed.

Dump the 413 and put the V10 auto in your RV. You will be miles ahead.

If you still want to keep the 413, go to the autowrecker and they will do a search for you for a pre-1998 47rh. You will probably get one for under a thousand dollars and get a 30 day warranty.


Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2889572
02/17/21 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Grizzly
Keep an eye on your local Craigslist or facebook marketplace for a 2wd Ram with a V10 automatic in it. You can get the whole truck for about a quarter of the price of the re-builds you listed.

Dump the 413 and put the V10 auto in your RV. You will be miles ahead.

If you still want to keep the 413, go to the autowrecker and they will do a search for you for a pre-1998 47rh. You will probably get one for under a thousand dollars and get a 30 day warranty.


1995 was last year for RH, 1996 started the RE's.


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed sold
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2889824
02/17/21 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
I have a new to me 1973 travco with the m375 chassis. I had planned to run a 413, but mine came with a 318 and a good 413 core has proved hard to find.
I will be building a 518 to go behind a 408 stroker. I don't know why it would need a 4k trans to live behind it. The 518's will live just fine without having to spend that kind of money. I am looking to see if someone builds a lock up torque converter with a heavy duty clutch though.


You had two 413 freebies about a year ago tsk


cheap, nosy, obnoxious? ...moi ?? ... just call it a HOBBY !!
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2889827
02/17/21 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Grizzly
Keep an eye on your local Craigslist or facebook marketplace for a 2wd Ram with a V10 automatic in it. You can get the whole truck for about a quarter of the price of the re-builds you listed.

Dump the 413 and put the V10 auto in your RV. You will be miles ahead.

If you still want to keep the 413, go to the autowrecker and they will do a search for you for a pre-1998 47rh. You will probably get one for under a thousand dollars and get a 30 day warranty.





Grizzzzzz ...a v10 ?.... whatchoobeensmokin ? smoke xmaseek


cheap, nosy, obnoxious? ...moi ?? ... just call it a HOBBY !!
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2889851
02/17/21 10:35 PM
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Factory computer engine management, 450 ft/lbs torque, overdrive, dead reliable, cheap, turn the key and go anywhere RV?

Other than lack of fabrication skills, not really sure why anyone would question a V10 swap, Doc?

I have a Ford V10 in a triple slide 30 foot RV and there is not one single time where I thought a carbureted big block anything would be better.


Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2889861
02/17/21 10:48 PM
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Ignoring the parts situation I think the V10 swap is an awesome upgrade. The '96 and newer V10's got sequential port injection and a slight HP bump if my memory isn't falling apart.


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed sold
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2889903
02/18/21 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Grizzly
Keep an eye on your local Craigslist or facebook marketplace for a 2wd Ram with a V10 automatic in it. You can get the whole truck for about a quarter of the price of the re-builds you listed.

Dump the 413 and put the V10 auto in your RV. You will be miles ahead.

If you still want to keep the 413, go to the autowrecker and they will do a search for you for a pre-1998 47rh. You will probably get one for under a thousand dollars and get a 30 day warranty.



If I had the time for a full swap with computers, mounts, gas tank pump and all I agree the V10 is a good motor.
I can put the 47RH in in an afternoon, and the 413 purrs and pulls great - 71 was the highest HP year.
My 97 B3500 has the 47RE with all upgrades and over 120k miles now on the rebuild. 200k on the OEM engine.
I do intend to check the yards nearby as I want some 90s Dodge captains chairs.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2889904
02/18/21 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray S
I do intend to check the yards nearby as I want some 90s Dodge captains chairs.


Good luck with the seats, they've been scarce forever. Don't forget to check the vans, same seats.


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed sold
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2889961
02/18/21 10:39 AM
02/18/21 10:39 AM
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Quote
AFAIK there are no Allison adapters


There are but good luck finding one. Industrial applications such as street sweepers could be a source.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: NITROUSN] #2889966
02/18/21 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Quote
AFAIK there are no Allison adapters


There are but good luck finding one. Industrial applications such as street sweepers could be a source.


IF you can find one of the FL series (FL50 ~ FL80, I think?) Freightliners equipped with an Allison and 360 or V10 you'd have one. BIG IF, damned few built, let alone with the $12,000 optional Allison.


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed sold
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: 3hundred] #2890001
02/18/21 11:36 AM
02/18/21 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 3hundred
Originally Posted by Ray S
I do intend to check the yards nearby as I want some 90s Dodge captains chairs.


Good luck with the seats, they've been scarce forever. Don't forget to check the vans, same seats.


I love the seats in my 97 B3500, I've sat for nearly 10 hours at a time without pain across the West.
Sad that so many others do not take care of their upholstery.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: NITROUSN] #2890004
02/18/21 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Quote
AFAIK there are no Allison adapters


There are but good luck finding one. Industrial applications such as street sweepers could be a source.


Yeah I just don't see the Allisson happening.
A computer and adapter for the ZF8HP, OTOH, would be awesome. My sister's 1500RAM has the paddle shifters and 8 speeds is almost seamless shifting. Higher tow rating too.

EDIT
I did have a link for a user who stuck one from a RAM into a 8 second Chevelle https://www.pro-touring.com/archive/index.php/t-123590.html

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparfor ... ion.17287/
https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissi ... lites.html
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/dodge/9 ... 727-a.html
https://ramchargercentral.com/drivetrai ... y-id-info/

Last edited by Ray S; 02/18/21 11:53 AM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2890013
02/18/21 12:10 PM
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Ray, the computer, or controller, is available for the 8 speed. Sound German Automotive makes them. I've been thinking about putting an 8 speed in my barracuda, behind a hopped up small block. I just don't want to cut up the trans tunnel to get it in there. I know it will bolt up but not sure what is needed to have the proper connection between the TQ and the flex plate.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: roadrunninMark] #2890166
02/18/21 04:57 PM
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GearVendors with a yoke input and output. Hang it in place of the carrier bearing and shorten one drive shaft. You can probably find a used one for $1K or less and have it freshened up and installed for half of the cost of a 518/618/46RH conversion and swap.

Kevin

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: roadrunninMark] #2890173
02/18/21 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by roadrunninMark
Ray, the computer, or controller, is available for the 8 speed. Sound German Automotive makes them. I've been thinking about putting an 8 speed in my barracuda, behind a hopped up small block. I just don't want to cut up the trans tunnel to get it in there. I know it will bolt up but not sure what is needed to have the proper connection between the TQ and the flex plate.


There are 2 that make TCMs for it
https://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/pcs/
https://htg-tuning.com/

but no physical adapters to the RB blocks.
You'd think someone could; if they have the CAD for the 440, and the CAD for the ZF end, why not?

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Twostick] #2890180
02/18/21 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Twostick
GearVendors with a yoke input and output. Hang it in place of the carrier bearing and shorten one drive shaft. You can probably find a used one for $1K or less and have it freshened up and installed for half of the cost of a 518/618/46RH conversion and swap.

Kevin

I literally drive by the GV shop regularly, and have looked for used.
If I go GV, I still have a 50 year old trans with 70k miles, and no locking TC...
In an RV app, I want a trans to lower the RPM due to my smaller tires (225-19.5 vs 8R17), and lock for cooler, efficient Hwy driving.
It also has to survive the Grapevine at WOT for 15 minutes pushing 11,000 lbs, so cooler is good. The A727 will, and has, but I'd rather upgrade than rebuild when it's time.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2890206
02/18/21 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray S
Originally Posted by Twostick
GearVendors with a yoke input and output. Hang it in place of the carrier bearing and shorten one drive shaft. You can probably find a used one for $1K or less and have it freshened up and installed for half of the cost of a 518/618/46RH conversion and swap.

Kevin

I literally drive by the GV shop regularly, and have looked for used.
If I go GV, I still have a 50 year old trans with 70k miles, and no locking TC...
In an RV app, I want a trans to lower the RPM due to my smaller tires (225-19.5 vs 8R17), and lock for cooler, efficient Hwy driving.
It also has to survive the Grapevine at WOT for 15 minutes pushing 11,000 lbs, so cooler is good. The A727 will, and has, but I'd rather upgrade than rebuild when it's time.


Is that an 8R17 or 8R17.5? I can't find a listing for an 8R17 but an 8R17.5 is 30.9" tall.

A 225/70/19.5 is 32" tall.

I'd be willing to bet if the current transmission has no issues, a fluid and filter change with a band adjustment will take it another 50 years and 70K.

If I was building a 518/46RH for that application I would be using all the diesel stuff in it, drums, clutches, planets and overdrive section.

If you're thinking the Ultrabell option, make sure it can house a big converter. I seem to recall reading somewhere that 10" is the limit. Not ideal for that application IMHO.

Here's a link to Tranz Tech in Dubuque IA. They have a process to weld a big block bell to a small block case.

http://www.tranztech.net/overdrive.html

Kevin

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Twostick] #2890209
02/18/21 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Twostick
Originally Posted by Ray S
Originally Posted by Twostick
GearVendors with a yoke input and output. Hang it in place of the carrier bearing and shorten one drive shaft. You can probably find a used one for $1K or less and have it freshened up and installed for half of the cost of a 518/618/46RH conversion and swap.

Kevin

I literally drive by the GV shop regularly, and have looked for used.
If I go GV, I still have a 50 year old trans with 70k miles, and no locking TC...
In an RV app, I want a trans to lower the RPM due to my smaller tires (225-19.5 vs 8R17), and lock for cooler, efficient Hwy driving.
It also has to survive the Grapevine at WOT for 15 minutes pushing 11,000 lbs, so cooler is good. The A727 will, and has, but I'd rather upgrade than rebuild when it's time.


Is that an 8R17 or 8R17.5? I can't find a listing for an 8R17 but an 8R17.5 is 30.9" tall.

A 225/70/19.5 is 32" tall.

I'd be willing to bet if the current transmission has no issues, a fluid and filter change with a band adjustment will take it another 50 years and 70K.

If I was building a 518/46RH for that application I would be using all the diesel stuff in it, drums, clutches, planets and overdrive section.

If you're thinking the Ultrabell option, make sure it can house a big converter. I seem to recall reading somewhere that 10" is the limit. Not ideal for that application IMHO.

Here's a link to Tranz Tech in Dubuque IA. They have a process to weld a big block bell to a small block case.

http://www.tranztech.net/overdrive.html

Kevin


Sorry I miss-typed; the 7.50R17 was OEM and 34.2 diameter, and about 2" taller than my new ones (pic)
I did the fluid and bands less than 1k ago, so shifting well. My thought has been that if the swap is a PITA or >$4k then I'll just leave it.
My van has all the 48RE hard parts etc they could put in it, and runs well.

I will call TranzTech for sure, thanks!

compared.jpg
Last edited by Ray S; 02/18/21 06:46 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2890227
02/18/21 07:35 PM
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I also just bookmarked this thread: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/140863/all/727-to-a518-swap.html
and will also be calling http://www.phoenixtrans.com/

I like the idea of the shop "just" welding a RB bell onto the 518 and eliminate the spacer.
Our 73 Jeepster had, all original, an AMC 304 and TH400 trans with OEM adapter, which cracked 2 flex plates due to imperfect machining/alignment. Argg.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2890887
02/20/21 09:43 AM
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Yes an the offer was very much appreciated. The 2000 mile round trip pulling a trailer last summer during the middle of the Covid stuff put a damper on your kind offer sir. I will revise my post to say a local cheap 413 core has proved to be hard to come by.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2890889
02/20/21 09:54 AM
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There was a machinist with a Travco that went by Chewbacca that tried welding a 727 bellhousing to a 518. After all that work it was slightly misaligned and he cut it off and used an ultrabell. His story was on one of the classic RV forums. Used gear vendors boxes come up from time to time on Ebay.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2890891
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Ray, what kind of RPM's are you turning at 55 and 65 with your current setup? Is the 413 mostly stock, or do you have a cam, headers, ??? What kind of mileage do you get with your rig?

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2890999
02/20/21 01:07 PM
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Quote
If I was building a 518/46RH for that application I would be using all the diesel stuff in it, drums, clutches, planets and overdrive section.

Some of the diesel stuff(drums) won't fit in the case. The 500/518/46rh is still a small block trans. An ultrabell on a 47/48RH would handle it. Not sure if they changed bolt pattern on them though.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2891036
02/20/21 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Yes an the offer was very much appreciated. The 2000 mile round trip pulling a trailer last summer during the middle of the Covid stuff put a damper on your kind offer sir. I will revise my post to say a local cheap 413 core has proved to be hard to come by.


But mGO ... you could have had THREE of them ... I had NINE good core motors !

Define CHEAP ! ... what .. INSURANCE ADJUSTER CheapO ??


cheap, nosy, obnoxious? ...moi ?? ... just call it a HOBBY !!
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2891085
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Ray, what kind of RPM's are you turning at 55 and 65 with your current setup? Is the 413 mostly stock, or do you have a cam, headers, ??? What kind of mileage do you get with your rig?


2700 @ 55
3200 @ 65
BTW the truck versions had a governor set at 3,400 RPM redline!

All stock except HEI and hot/cold air cleaner snorkel
~9-10MPG
working on the code for a RaspberryPi dash computer with fuel meter (I added O2, vacuum, drive shaft, spark and crank sensors)

IMG_7381.JPGIMG_5392.JPG
Last edited by Ray S; 02/20/21 03:27 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Moparite] #2891088
02/20/21 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Moparite
Quote
If I was building a 518/46RH for that application I would be using all the diesel stuff in it, drums, clutches, planets and overdrive section.

Some of the diesel stuff(drums) won't fit in the case. The 500/518/46rh is still a small block trans. An ultrabell on a 47/48RH would handle it. Not sure if they changed bolt pattern on them though.


yep, 413/440 pattern and TC is larger, thus the need for adapter or bell swap
they are also 2.5" longer so trans mount and DS shortening need attention

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2891370
02/21/21 10:57 AM
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9 to 10mpg is pretty respectable mileage for what you are running.

For comparison I'm getting 12 to 13 in a 21,000 pound Class A with 5 speed automatic. 1800 to 1900 rpm.


Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Moparite] #2891396
02/21/21 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Moparite
Quote
If I was building a 518/46RH for that application I would be using all the diesel stuff in it, drums, clutches, planets and overdrive section.

Some of the diesel stuff(drums) won't fit in the case. The 500/518/46rh is still a small block trans. An ultrabell on a 47/48RH would handle it. Not sure if they changed bolt pattern on them though.

No such thing as a 48RH, RE only and the 47RH was two years only, '94 & '95 diesel or V10.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2891531
02/21/21 03:22 PM
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Again, I appreciate the offer Doc. Cheap is relative depending upon time involved. If I was going to Michigan on vacation anyway it would have been one thing. Vacation was ruined by governor's edict. Combine that with my doctor telling me to stay close to home because of health issues and the unknown about the covid stuff and it did not work out for me to make the trip last year.

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 02/21/21 03:22 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2891677
02/21/21 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray S
Originally Posted by roadrunninMark
Ray, the computer, or controller, is available for the 8 speed. Sound German Automotive makes them. I've been thinking about putting an 8 speed in my barracuda, behind a hopped up small block. I just don't want to cut up the trans tunnel to get it in there. I know it will bolt up but not sure what is needed to have the proper connection between the TQ and the flex plate.


There are 2 that make TCMs for it
https://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/pcs/
https://htg-tuning.com/

but no physical adapters to the RB blocks.
You'd think someone could; if they have the CAD for the 440, and the CAD for the ZF end, why not?



I thought the hemi bellhousing pattern was the same as a smallblock. Aren't a lot of guys using 727's when they do hemi swaps in older muscle cars?

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2891688
02/21/21 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray S
Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Ray, what kind of RPM's are you turning at 55 and 65 with your current setup? Is the 413 mostly stock, or do you have a cam, headers, ??? What kind of mileage do you get with your rig?


2700 @ 55
3200 @ 65
BTW the truck versions had a governor set at 3,400 RPM redline!

All stock except HEI and hot/cold air cleaner snorkel
~9-10MPG
working on the code for a RaspberryPi dash computer with fuel meter (I added O2, vacuum, drive shaft, spark and crank sensors)



What kind of MPG improvement did you see as a result of the HEI and cold air induction? Did you do those before or after the switch to radial tires?

Will the raspberry thing be a data logger, or allow control over engine management? One more question- how in the heck are you getting those MPG's using a holley?

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2891702
02/21/21 10:50 PM
02/21/21 10:50 PM
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Quote
I thought the hemi bellhousing pattern was the same as a smallblock. Aren't a lot of guys using 727's when they do hemi swaps in older muscle cars?


The B and RB as well as the Hemi have the same pattern. Not sure on the Gen 3 Hemi. That may be small block pattern.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: NITROUSN] #2891714
02/21/21 11:43 PM
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gen 3 is small block pattern

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2891722
02/22/21 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Grizzly
9 to 10mpg is pretty respectable mileage for what you are running.

For comparison I'm getting 12 to 13 in a 21,000 pound Class A with 5 speed automatic. 1800 to 1900 rpm.


That's pretty good
I got 10.5 in my Southwind years ago with headers and a few mods

A few people put Cummins in their Travcos and get 14-15 usually with a 48RE behind it

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2891727
02/22/21 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Originally Posted by Ray S
Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Ray, what kind of RPM's are you turning at 55 and 65 with your current setup? Is the 413 mostly stock, or do you have a cam, headers, ??? What kind of mileage do you get with your rig?


2700 @ 55
3200 @ 65
BTW the truck versions had a governor set at 3,400 RPM redline!

All stock except HEI and hot/cold air cleaner snorkel
~9-10MPG
working on the code for a RaspberryPi dash computer with fuel meter (I added O2, vacuum, drive shaft, spark and crank sensors)



What kind of MPG improvement did you see as a result of the HEI and cold air induction? Did you do those before or after the switch to radial tires?

Will the raspberry thing be a data logger, or allow control over engine management? One more question- how in the heck are you getting those MPG's using a holley?


Not sure of any MPG improvement, but I have a local hill climb test I do that went from 41s to 39s from a standing start.

Pi has a 7" touch screen just to log / display data ( I normally write a lot of code) and maybe control an air bleed (IAC) that I got for mountain driving. I go up to 9,000' in the Sierras.

The 390CFM 4150 is all the low-rpm motor needs and was built and tuned by Rick Walker Carbs. I think the HEI helped a LOT - certainly runs a lot smoother than the OEM even after it had new bushings and all. I also use Mopar Performance Tune for the timing with a degree tape, and the dizzy was tweaked by The Dyno Shop.

I posted this on Tapatalk years ago:
Quote
I just had a 4150C Holley R-6189A gone through, with stagger jetting; no real issues, just confirming it was clean and jets were OEM. These carbs also have the 6.5 power valve and 2 idle screws only on the secondary block.
Holley tech confirmed the set:
L-Pri 59, R-Pri 57
L-Sec 70, R-Sec 72
It is a 413-1 in a Travco RV, and the left barrels see the deeper side of the dual plane intake; I presume that the left jets are larger since that side gets less average vacuum (I get ~16" at idle at 4000').
Once I put the HEI back on I'll be re-checking my O2 sensors' results, and I'm using Champion type 120 plugs at .045
When I was looking at the O2 data before I could see one or 2 were leaner than the others, but because of the cross-over manifold it's hard to tell which.


I also stay 65 or under on the freeway...

tuner SW.jpgtune results.jpg4150 built.jpg
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2891889
02/22/21 02:58 PM
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What kind of AFR are you running at cruise and what timing?

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2891976
02/22/21 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
What kind of AFR are you running at cruise and what timing?


~14/1 is what I saw cruise, and with the local 10% ethanol fuel it's about right or even lean
of course I live at 4,000'

timing is via https://www.mopar1.us/engine2.html (charts at the bottom)

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2892177
02/23/21 11:05 AM
02/23/21 11:05 AM
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Let me add .. you best have a big torque 413 to pull through a lock up and overdrive transmission..


cheap, nosy, obnoxious? ...moi ?? ... just call it a HOBBY !!
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2892183
02/23/21 11:16 AM
02/23/21 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray S


That's pretty good
I got 10.5 in my Southwind years ago with headers and a few mods

A few people put Cummins in their Travcos and get 14-15 usually with a 48RE behind it


Oh, for sure, it would be the perfect home for a Cummins. With diesel costing more than gas I would be more willing to turbo the V10. At least if I blow it up I can always get another V10 from the Wreckers for $800.00. Power isn't that much of an issue at the weight I'm at, I would just turbo it to up my fuel mileage a bit more. I have two T3's to do it, but I just got this machine so going to leave it alone for the time being.

I did upsize the rubber (19.5's to 22.5's) to get more mechanical advantage out of it. Using the Torq App and bluetooth OBD connector for data, it is so far showing better fuel mileage with the bigger rubber. I stay under 60mph with mine, the only ones getting 5mpg out of these things are the guys in the hammer lane, of which I will never understand.

Looks like you have a well-sorted plan, nice job. up


Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2892185
02/23/21 11:24 AM
02/23/21 11:24 AM
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A huffed V10 ?

Oh Lord ... the uNsanity continues .. xmaseek

Double tonguue atcha !


cheap, nosy, obnoxious? ...moi ?? ... just call it a HOBBY !!
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2892397
02/23/21 06:33 PM
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What RV are you running Grizzly?

Link to a converter I came across shopping.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hup-15lfuel/applications

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2892615
02/24/21 10:56 AM
02/24/21 10:56 AM
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It's a 2006 Gulfstream Indepence, F53 Ford chassis. Removed the S110 axle 19.5's and put the big Spicer S150 axle in myself along with front hubs to change over to the 22.5 wheels/tires. Big job. Like everything, Ford doesn't make anything easy, even the part numbers and diagrams are impossible to find.

You guys need to post up photos of your RVs. up That picture in your profile Ray just isn't enough to go on. grin

IMG_20200815_144154.jpgDSCN1309.JPG

Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2892655
02/24/21 12:28 PM
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Grizzly, I think you may be my brother from another mother. I have a challenger convertible I am working on as well to take with us on some of my wife and I's trips.

My travco isn't much to look at now, I just got her and have not yet even gotten it home to give it a bath. She has been sitting for a while..

DodgeTravco3 (2).jpgDodgeTravco2 (2).jpg
Last edited by mgoblue9798; 02/24/21 12:53 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2892848
02/24/21 08:44 PM
02/24/21 08:44 PM
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Great minds think alike. up

Be prepared: you'll get a lots of Gawkers and People coming up to you to talk when you get your Challenger on the back of yours. grin

Neat machine you have there, I really like that Travco L'Espirit you educated me on in the other thread. Renovating older RV's is getting to be a hot thing, the price of older machines have really gone up because of it.

Side note, you can't even tell the car is back there, that F53 is the best chassis for RVs. They've owned the gasoline market for a number of years and now Ford has it all to themselves.

Travco on Bring a Trailer




30.jpg31.jpg

Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2894263
03/01/21 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Grizzly

You guys need to post up photos of your RVs. up That picture in your profile Ray just isn't enough to go on. grin


https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...re-lets-see-your-trucks.html#Post2889316
and
https://www.facebook.com/71.Dodge.Travco

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894471
03/01/21 04:33 PM
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Nice!

Correction on my fuel mileage for moving from 19.5's to 22.5's: it worked out to 9.4 mpg.


Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894802
03/02/21 01:58 PM
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OK, I spoke to both Transtech (Iowa) and Phoenix Transmission Products (Texas) and both said they did not have a product for a heavy vehicle.
Transtech said the welded-on bell will not accept a large TC - needed for the 413 RV, and Phoenix only builds A-500 mods, not 518.
JW Performance Transmission does not have an Ultrabell to do it.

So, it looks like the Wilcap adapter and finding a 47RH is the only solution.

Along this line, has anyone heard of or used Hughes TCs?
http://www.hughesperformance.com/xtm-xfm/
they said they have a 24XTM for the 727, and a 15LXTM for the 47RH, both for towing etc.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894814
03/02/21 02:18 PM
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The Ultrabell response was mysterious since "flyinlow" put a 518 onto his 440 Charger
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,65534.0.html
but apparently that was the "small" TC referred to, which works fine in a passenger car they say.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894815
03/02/21 02:18 PM
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Ray, my main concern with this set up is the clutch in the lock up converter. Unless someone has seriously upgraded clutch material and surface area, I question how long it would live in our application. I am trying to get answers about that from different converter companies before purchasing.

I may wind up not running a lock up. With both the hollow input shaft and clutch in the converter being weaker links, I would rather build a non lockup than build something that has to come out for rebuild again in a year or two. Couple places sell low rpm converters. Combine that with a nice cooler and it would mitigate heat issues.

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 03/02/21 02:19 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2894861
03/02/21 03:47 PM
03/02/21 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray S
OK, I spoke to both Transtech (Iowa) and Phoenix Transmission Products (Texas) and both said they did not have a product for a heavy vehicle.
Transtech said the welded-on bell will not accept a large TC - needed for the 413 RV, and Phoenix only builds A-500 mods, not 518.
JW Performance Transmission does not have an Ultrabell to do it.

So, it looks like the Wilcap adapter and finding a 47RH is the only solution.

Along this line, has anyone heard of or used Hughes TCs?
http://www.hughesperformance.com/xtm-xfm/
they said they have a 24XTM for the 727, and a 15LXTM for the 47RH, both for towing etc.

The 47RH was only for the diesel and V10 applications. In that application the converter sticks out from the bell housing face about an inch or more and it's overall diameter is much larger, so a 47RH isn't really going to help you.
What you are basically needing is a billet cover single disc lockup converter for a gas 727. No one I know of makes it because you would need not only the Ultra Bell for the B engine adaption but also a spacer between the engine and trans for the extra depth and then you would still be limited to the smaller diameter converter. I've never said this before but you might have better luck, or at least more converter options with a Turbo 400 for what you are trying to do.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2894947
03/02/21 06:56 PM
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Guitar, what is wrong with using 11" converter? There are options out there if using the adapter kit. Now I have some concern about the lock up clutch, but this one has the billet cover so one step in the right direction. http://stores.hi-potek.com/hipotek-...r-dodge-jeep-518-and-46re-transmissions/

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2894962
03/02/21 07:31 PM
03/02/21 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Guitar, what is wrong with using 11" converter? There are options out there if using the adapter kit. Now I have some concern about the lock up clutch, but this one has the billet cover so one step in the right direction. http://stores.hi-potek.com/hipotek-...r-dodge-jeep-518-and-46re-transmissions/


That is as close as you are going to get with a 46RH. I honestly don't know how that would hold up in his application though. The billet cover and lockup clutch take up room in the converter that the turbine, stator and impeller occupy so all those components have to be smaller, which equals weaker. It's one of the reasons high horsepower automatic drag cars use GM transmissions, the bell housing is deeper.
You could of course have someone build a special one off converter (expensive) and space the trans back but then the crossmember needs to be moved and the driveshaft shortened. Maybe not a big deal in Ray's case but is in others. I had to do that when I converted my '92 diesel to a lockup. Everything had to move rearward 1.250".


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2894971
03/02/21 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones

The 47RH was only for the diesel and V10 applications. In that application the converter sticks out from the bell housing face about an inch or more and it's overall diameter is much larger, so a 47RH isn't really going to help you.
What you are basically needing is a billet cover single disc lockup converter for a gas 727. No one I know of makes it because you would need not only the Ultra Bell for the B engine adaption but also a spacer between the engine and trans for the extra depth and then you would still be limited to the smaller diameter converter. I've never said this before but you might have better luck, or at least more converter options with a Turbo 400 for what you are trying to do.


So the 47RH/618 front is that different than the 46RH/A-518? There are a lot of adapters and there have been a lot of 518s bolted to 440s.
I spoke to a number of people re the MH application
https://www.transdepot.net/46RH-47RH-48RH-Dodge-Stage-1-Transmission-89-95_p_138.html
https://www.bullripper.com/HEAVY-DUTY-A518-p/b30.htm

My 47RE in my 5.9 B3500 van is supposedly also adaptable to the RB/BB, but I wanted to avoid a electronic controller. It was built with all upgraded hard parts at the time (the extra planets etc)

I got a quote for a 700R4 Chevy, but they would not warrantee it in a MH application...

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2895079
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Appreciate the input. Like you I am not sure about any of the lock up converters living in an RV. I have emails in to several places and will see what they have to say. As far as the fabbing goes, I put a 518 behind the 340 in my Challenger in 1994. Truck chassis would be a piece of cake. Fab a mount and cut the driveshaft and it is done save for bolt ons and a couple wires. I think I have talked myself into pulling my 518 non lockup core down to see what it needs for this build. If I want still lower rpms I can run my gear vendor unit being the 518 and have double overdrive at about .54 to 1.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2895080
03/03/21 02:46 AM
03/03/21 02:46 AM
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Both of the links you posted have transmissions that are misidentified. Again the 47RH was a diesel and V10 only transmission for the 94-95 model year. They are all lockup style. The 47RE and 48RE were diesel and V10 applications only for 96 MY and up until they stopped, all lockup style. The 46RH/518 was for gas engines 88 or 89 (I forget exactly but the early ones had smaller 5/16 cooler lines) and up and diesels 91.5-93. They came in lockup and non lockup styles. All the diesel versions were non lockup. So unless you have a 5.9 Cummins in your van you don't have a 47RE in it, you have a 46RH if it's hydraulically controlled or a 46RE if it is electronically controlled. You can put some of the 47/48 internals into a 46 case but not everything.
The diesel and V10 bell housing is large and accepts a larger diameter torque converter. The converter also protrudes from the face of the bellhousing about an inch or so when fully seated vs the 1/2" the converter is recessed into the face of the bellhousing on gas versions and non lockup diesel versions. It's not because the bell is cut back, it's because the converter is thicker to accommodate larger, heavier duty components.
You could cut the bell off a 46 or 47 and use an Ultra Bell for a 727 to B/RB pattern or an adapter for the 46 gas engine trans but you are still stuck with the smaller and narrower converter. That may be fine for your application, I don't honestly know. My concern would be the durability of the smaller converter and lockup clutch to handle that weight with that kind of wind resistance as well. It will always be under load.
I burned through a stock lockup clutch with my slightly warmed over 12 valve pretty quickly and I wasn't even towing with it yet. I'm probably only making about 500 lb/ft. I put a single disc billet cover converter in it and it's been fine since even with some pretty heavy towing.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2895113
03/03/21 08:45 AM
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Oh and real 47RH transmissions aren't cheap from a salvage yard unless you just get lucky and find one in a pick a part yard. When I did my conversion the cheapest one I found was over $1000 and had 250k miles on it. Since they are two year only units they can be fairly scarce.
Grizzly's V10 idea isn't that bad except that comes with it's own set of problems as the V10 is obsolete and some replacement parts such as, rocker arms, cam sprocket, timing cover (oil pump) are no longer available anywhere and magnum and Viper V10 components don't interchange. So you would be stuck sourcing used parts should the need arise.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2895168
03/03/21 11:46 AM
03/03/21 11:46 AM
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I think this may have been covered with GTSdart340's post; staying with your 413 Ray, I think this is your only option:

Big Block to 518 Adapter Package

The "small block" designation is a bit mis-leading, in a 1500 Ram that transmission is factory rated for around 12,000 pounds. I've gone up to 14,100 on my 46RE and it didn't hurt it. My 46RE failed at 240,000 miles.....I have this and other reasons why I despise this transmission, but, I think it's still suitable for your application.

You would have to contact them to see if a lock-up convertor can be used.

The eight speed though.......wow, if one of you Guys pulled that off on a carbureted small/big block, it would be a big game changer in Hot Rodding Mopars. I have an idea how to do it and it's kind of simple. work

30.jpg

Mo' Farts
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2895169
03/03/21 11:49 AM
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Twostick Offline
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You could try to find an SAE#3 bellhousing from a 413 or 361 powered 500-900 series truck. That would open up some Allison options for you but I don't know if that requires an extended crankshaft or if they used a spacer.

Kevin

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Twostick] #2895307
03/03/21 05:50 PM
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@Grizzly I stand corrected on the B3500 trans, it was 46RE, with new planets, governor, solenoids etc

I did locate this turnkey 6 speed auto package:
https://www.tciauto.com/6x-six-spee...chrysler-bellhousing-outlaw-shifter.html
Don't click it if you don't want to know the price.
But still less than an Allison.

One guy did swap a ZF 8HP (my sister's RAM 1500 has one - nice) into a 67 Chevelle
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/123590-Zf-8hp70-mated-to-sbc
and programmed the CAN-bus with a Teensy (I do MSP programming as well), but he said he'd rather have gone for the PCS unit if he knew better
https://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/pcs/
I'm familiar with the rabbit-holes of DIY microprocessor projects...

Re longetivity,
Engine specs (old SAE gross HP) are:
Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-1, 4 BBL, 4.188 X 3.75, 7.5 to 1, 265HP @ 4000, 445 fp @ 2400, Sodium Exhaust Valves
So the 10,500lb Travco weighs more than the B3500 which is 5,400 empty (and I load regularly to 8,000), but the 235HP MPI 5.9 probably has >30 more real net HP.
The RAM probably makes more peak stress on the trans when loaded and climbing the same hills here, but the 413 can and does run WOT for 10-20 minutes without complaining - that's where I see the real "stress" on a MH trans coming from; any built trans that can "handle" (so they say) 500+HP for 10-20 seconds might overheat and burn after 10 minutes. This is also why I wonder when I see Travco group people putting an LS-1 or Hemi in Travcos (and they do!).
It's also why I think mods like the torrington thrust bearing, low-slip or lock TC etc would also help the MH application, even though I have a square foot trans cooler in front.
The triple-clutch TCs would likely be a good option, but add almost $1k.

It's now looking more like finding a 46RH, billet TC and adapter, built up like
https://www.transdepot.net/46RH-47RH-Stage-2-Transmission-89-95_p_847.html
might be the only option under $7k (for the TCI).

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2895320
03/03/21 06:32 PM
03/03/21 06:32 PM
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Ray it isn't peak hp that you look at for trans application, it is peak torque output which the 413 has in spades above the 5.9.We need @transman to chime in if he is around about the best way to modify one of the 46rh's to live in our application. No way am I spending 7k on a trans build. That said I am capable of building it myself so it will just be parts expense for me.

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 03/03/21 06:33 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2895357
03/03/21 07:34 PM
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It's not the trans where I see the problem but the torque converter. The lockup would build less heat than the non lockup but I'm concerned about how much the converter and lockup clutch would take in that smaller size.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2895470
03/04/21 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
It's not the trans where I see the problem but the torque converter. The lockup would build less heat than the non lockup but I'm concerned about how much the converter and lockup clutch would take in that smaller size.


These guys claim 600-1000HP for their $1k 46RH TCs
http://www.torqueconvertershop.com/torque_converter_904_727_518_46r.htm
remains to be seen if they warrantee them for RV use.

I may have been wrong about the exorbitant price of Allisons, pricey still
https://www.bullripper.com/HEAVY-DUTY-ALLISON-LCT1000-p/t13.htm

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2895472
03/04/21 12:47 AM
03/04/21 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Ray it isn't peak hp that you look at for trans application, it is peak torque output which the 413 has in spades above the 5.9.We need @transman to chime in if he is around about the best way to modify one of the 46rh's to live in our application. No way am I spending 7k on a trans build. That said I am capable of building it myself so it will just be parts expense for me.



PATC sells kits if you're inclined - which one would be good to get experience chiming in.
https://transmissioncenter.net/product-category/dodge/?product-category=level-3-46re-46rh-518,level-2-47re-47rh-618,level-2-48re-dodge

None of those build shops have 46/47RH cores, so need to source a wreck.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2895475
03/04/21 12:56 AM
03/04/21 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Ray it isn't peak hp that you look at for trans application, it is peak torque output which the 413 has in spades above the 5.9.We need @transman to chime in if he is around about the best way to modify one of the 46rh's to live in our application.


you might be interested in my trans bookmarks so far:
https://www.transdepot.net/46RH-47RH-48RH-Dodge-Stage-1-Transmission-89-95_p_138.html
https://transmissioncenter.net/shop...50-th400-700r4-and-200-4r-transmissions/
http://www.wilcap.com/mopar.html
https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/transmission/transmission-packages/th700r4-package/
https://www.bigblockdart.com/forum/showthread.php?4936-turbo-400-swap
https://www.theturboforums.com/threads/518-trans-on-a-big-block.352565/#post-1698520
http://www.atsdiesel.com/ats2/productdetail.asp?p=3069402164
https://transmissioncenter.net/product-category/dodge/?product-category=level-2-47re-47rh-618,level-2-48re-dodge
https://www.hgmelectronics.com/comp...rque-converter-lock-up-kit-for-chrysler/
https://www.bullripper.com/HEAVY-DUTY-A618-p/b37.htm
https://www.tranzactracing.com/new-index
https://www.alligatorperformance.com/ats-3069202164-47-rh-transmission-94-95-dodge-5-9l-cummins-2wd
http://www.sd-concepts.com/pages/cfHome.cfm
https://smrtrans.tripod.com/transmissionfeatures/
https://www.coperacingtrans.com/?product=crt-518-hd-1-transmission
https://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/pcs/
https://htg-tuning.com/
http://www.jvxracing.com/jvxcatalog.pdf
http://www.phoenixtrans.com/chrysler-transmissions/
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/140863/all/727-to-a518-swap.html
http://www.tranztech.net/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hup-15lfuel/applications
http://www.hughesperformance.com/xtm-xfm/
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/35994.html
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=84774.0
https://smrtrans.tripod.com/smrtransmissionsintro/id9.html
http://stores.hi-potek.com/hipotek-...r-dodge-jeep-518-and-46re-transmissions/
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/123590-Zf-8hp70-mated-to-sbc
https://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/pcs/
https://www.tciauto.com/6x-six-spee...chrysler-bellhousing-outlaw-shifter.html
http://www.torqueconvertershop.com/torque_converter_904_727_518_46r.htm

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2895553
03/04/21 11:11 AM
03/04/21 11:11 AM
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Thanks for the info. I will add another. Cascade transmission machines 48RE internals- 6 pinion steel planet gears, increased capacity clutch packs, etc to fit the regular 46rh. Parts they have allow for up to 10 clutches in the OD unit. I think you can buy entire already assembled overdrive units from them, and the rest is basically like building a 727.

https://www.cascadetransmissionparts.com/

Last edited by mgoblue9798; 03/04/21 11:16 AM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2895625
03/04/21 01:15 PM
03/04/21 01:15 PM
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I think 10 clutches in the direct portion of the overdrive unit is normal or 22(?) of the one sided discs. Extra clutches for the actual overdrive would be awesome. These would be the ones you see when you pull the overdrive unit off the trans.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2895777
03/04/21 06:48 PM
03/04/21 06:48 PM
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Atlanta, GA
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mgoblue9798 Offline
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I know PATC sells a 7 clutch/steel/pressure plate kit for that overdrive brake set of clutches. What is your opinion of red eagle clutches and kolene steels?

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2895927
03/05/21 07:23 AM
03/05/21 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
I know PATC sells a 7 clutch/steel/pressure plate kit for that overdrive brake set of clutches. What is your opinion of red eagle clutches and kolene steels?

I have never used them, the stock stuff has always worked fine for me. What I would recommend to anyone building a trans for heavy duty use is billet servos for both bands. If you look in the transmission for sale section here mrrandyj sells very nice billet servos. The thicker kickdown band strut sold by many places is also a good upgrade.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2895999
03/05/21 11:34 AM
03/05/21 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Thanks for the info. I will add another. Cascade transmission machines 48RE internals- 6 pinion steel planet gears, increased capacity clutch packs, etc to fit the regular 46rh. Parts they have allow for up to 10 clutches in the OD unit. I think you can buy entire already assembled overdrive units from them, and the rest is basically like building a 727.

https://www.cascadetransmissionparts.com/



So it looks like it is a great source for those parts, combined with one of the billet TC suppliers it would make a good kit.
I've built 3 manuals, but never even considered a complete auto tear-down - one thing I have not done is look for a local (So Cal) guy/shop to do a build from parts...

Completely un-ironically, my 97 RAM just threw a P0740 code, so I need to have the TC clutch system looked at. Ugg.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2896009
03/05/21 11:56 AM
03/05/21 11:56 AM
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If you are having issues with the lock up in the converter, i would try this additive before replacing it. This is similar to the sure grip additive in that it stops the clutch from chattering when engaged. I have used it with great results in numerous trans in lots of different makes including the 46rh/e.

https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-196...qid=1614958765&s=software&sr=1-2

There also is a newer clutch material raysbestos makes for our overdrive units


The red eagle stuff I asked about earlier is a thinner material combined with thinner steels that allows more clutches in the same drum. The raysbestos frictions are just a different material with increase grab and might be a better choice. Not sure and welcome any input.


https://www.raybestospowertrain.com/friction-clutch-packs/rtk-4803


For sure servos, shift kit including sonnex fix that allows oiling in park, and widest bands available are agiven for me. Also updating to the borg warner solenoid as well.

https://www.fivestartransmissionpar...-governor-pressure-solenoid-borg-warner/

There are some really good youtube vids on the rebuild.I have not done a 46rh, but have build numerous 727s in the past. Basically the same save for the overdrive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrZxEp9ZgXY












Last edited by mgoblue9798; 03/05/21 12:06 PM.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2896053
03/05/21 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
If you are having issues with the lock up in the converter, i would try this additive before replacing it. This is similar to the sure grip additive in that it stops the clutch from chattering when engaged. I have used it with great results in numerous trans in lots of different makes including the 46rh/e.

https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-196...qid=1614958765&s=software&sr=1-2


Awesome - thanks for the link.
It was idling funny/low occasionally last 2 weeks almost like a clutch was dragging, the the van has 200K on the OEM engine and 120k on the built trans, so I never know what to expect.
I'm sure the timing chain is loose as a goose, although compression is still good.
I don't have a problem adjusting bands and replacing stuff inside the pan, but beyond that is not worth learning for me.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2896139
03/05/21 04:40 PM
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put one tube in and drive it for 100 miles,may have to add a second for it to work

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2896167
03/05/21 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
put one tube in and drive it for 100 miles,may have to add a second for it to work


bought.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2896170
03/05/21 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
The converter also protrudes from the face of the bellhousing about an inch or so when fully seated vs the 1/2" the converter is recessed into the face of the bellhousing on gas versions and non lockup diesel versions. It's not because the bell is cut back, it's because the converter is thicker to accommodate larger, heavier duty components.
You could cut the bell off a 46 or 47 and use an Ultra Bell for a 727 to B/RB pattern or an adapter for the 46 gas engine trans but you are still stuck with the smaller and narrower converter.


I was just buying other stuff and saw
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-to-...-Ram-Cummins-Diesel-12v-24v/233911930079
So, the Cummins has its own adapter to handle the deeper 47* TC?
Could THAT be then adapted to the 413/440, ie stack them? The starter may or may not have clearance of course.

Clipboard01.jpg
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Grizzly] #2896171
03/05/21 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Grizzly

The eight speed though.......wow, if one of you Guys pulled that off on a carbureted small/big block, it would be a big game changer in Hot Rodding Mopars. I have an idea how to do it and it's kind of simple. work



In case you missed this:
One guy did swap a ZF 8HP into a 67 Chevelle
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/123590-Zf-8hp70-mated-to-sbc
and programmed the CAN-bus with a Teensy (I do MSP programming as well), but he said he'd rather have gone for the PCS unit if he knew better
https://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/pcs/

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2896195
03/05/21 07:21 PM
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OK, I got to talk to the builder John at CRT about a 518/46RH
https://www.coperacingtrans.com/?product=crt-518-hd-1-transmission
When I asked, he did not think that the small block TC should be a problem - he said he's "built many of them" for heavy towing applications and can supply the BB adapter, core, TC, etc as a full kit.
He also recommended not to use pressure switches, but only toggles on the dash for control.

So, at least ~$5k...
$2,495.00 full build
$500 core
$800 TC + $400 core https://www.coperacingtrans.com/?product=diesel-performance-converter-1300-tow
$800 adapter

? $ shipping

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2896216
03/05/21 08:20 PM
03/05/21 08:20 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted by Ray S
Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
The converter also protrudes from the face of the bellhousing about an inch or so when fully seated vs the 1/2" the converter is recessed into the face of the bellhousing on gas versions and non lockup diesel versions. It's not because the bell is cut back, it's because the converter is thicker to accommodate larger, heavier duty components.
You could cut the bell off a 46 or 47 and use an Ultra Bell for a 727 to B/RB pattern or an adapter for the 46 gas engine trans but you are still stuck with the smaller and narrower converter.


I was just buying other stuff and saw
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-to-...-Ram-Cummins-Diesel-12v-24v/233911930079
So, the Cummins has its own adapter to handle the deeper 47* TC?
Could THAT be then adapted to the 413/440, ie stack them? The starter may or may not have clearance of course.

The Cummins doesn't have a bellhousing pattern, just a bolt on adapter to fit a multitude of applications. Those 8 bolt holes inside that adapter are what bolts to the block. There are two different adapters for the Dodge/Ram application. One for the non lockup/Getrag (up to '93) and one for the lockup/NV4500 and beyond transmissions. The later version is about 1.125 deeper and has a different starter mounting as well as how the starter is clocked.
I don't know why John would rather have switches instead of pressure switches because that is a PITA to keep up with. I will say you can't just use those little switches like PATC sells, at least I wouldn't. I used two adjustable Hobbs switches, one low and one high with two relays wired so while the low pressure switch closes it doesn't activate the relay until the high pressure switch activates the high switch relay. The high switch relay is then latched to the low switch relay so it stays locked until the low pressure switch is released. Kind of confusing I know and I would have to dig up the schematic again myself to redo it but it locks up at about 46-47 and unlocks at about 42-44 MPH. Otherwise it will hunt between lock and unlock at the pressure switch setting.
I ran the whole deal through the O/D circuit in the PCM so I wouldn't get lockup without it being in O/D and used a third relay in that circuit so I wouldn't burn the driver out in the PCM. Works like factory, really.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2896232
03/05/21 08:52 PM
03/05/21 08:52 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
I know you want to keep the 413 but in reality you could buy a rusted out P pumped 12 valve truck for $5k or less and swap the engine and trans and be money ahead even with a trans overhaul and good converter.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2896336
03/06/21 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
I know you want to keep the 413 but in reality you could buy a rusted out P pumped 12 valve truck for $5k or less and swap the engine and trans and be money ahead even with a trans overhaul and good converter.


It's not that I have an affectionate attachment - it just runs great and I really don't want to remove the front end to cherry-pick it all out.
My vain hope was to jack it up and do a trans R&R, which I've done, and (besides the shaft shortening) is a few hours.

I also did got a reply from Randy (mrrandyj):
"In my opinion you should use a Gear Vendors overdrive behind your 727. You can get a towing 12" torque converter that will not slip much going down the road. If you really must have a lock-up torque converter, you can find a 1978 big block 727 case and convert it to lock-up using a small block lock-up 727 for the parts you need. That way you won't need any expensive adapters to get the transmission to bolt to the engine. With a lot of the adapters you cannot use the larger size torque converter, it will not fit. If it was mine I would use your existing transmission, buy a good non lock-up torque converter, and install a Gear Vendors.
Randy"
and my response was:
"Thank you Randy,
If I find a good used GV unit I'll consider it, otherwise $3-5k for any of these solutions will never be worth it in gas savings..."

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2896340
03/06/21 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones

I don't know why John would rather have switches instead of pressure switches because that is a PITA to keep up with. I will say you can't just use those little switches like PATC sells, at least I wouldn't. I used two adjustable Hobbs switches, one low and one high with two relays wired so while the low pressure switch closes it doesn't activate the relay until the high pressure switch activates the high switch relay. The high switch relay is then latched to the low switch relay so it stays locked until the low pressure switch is released. Kind of confusing I know and I would have to dig up the schematic again myself to redo it but it locks up at about 46-47 and unlocks at about 42-44 MPH. Otherwise it will hunt between lock and unlock at the pressure switch setting.
I ran the whole deal through the O/D circuit in the PCM so I wouldn't get lockup without it being in O/D and used a third relay in that circuit so I wouldn't burn the driver out in the PCM. Works like factory, really.


Sounds like a better idea, John might have had the PATC style simple switches in mind for the comment.
My 97 RAM locks in 3rd and OD and the feel is noticeable. Since I installed 3.21 gear set in the diff climbing the local 6% grade in 3rd lockup is perfect.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2898106
03/11/21 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones

That is as close as you are going to get with a 46RH. I honestly don't know how that would hold up in his application though. The billet cover and lockup clutch take up room in the converter that the turbine, stator and impeller occupy so all those components have to be smaller, which equals weaker. It's one of the reasons high horsepower automatic drag cars use GM transmissions, the bell housing is deeper.
You could of course have someone build a special one off converter (expensive) and space the trans back but then the crossmember needs to be moved and the driveshaft shortened. Maybe not a big deal in Ray's case but is in others. I had to do that when I converted my '92 diesel to a lockup. Everything had to move rearward 1.250".


This thread
https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=14273.0
details one crazy drama of a mechanic's DIY trans mod.
TLDR; he used an Ultrabell at the end, in front of a non-locking 46RH and manual OD switch. But, because of the thicker bell he had to use a smaller TC.

Actually sounds reasonable, and high-quality OD clutches are called for.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2898596
03/12/21 10:07 PM
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Just to add more to the mix, I've learned that there are 2.74 ratio first gear parts out there now (there are raging debates as to whether there were such OEM options for the 727).
With a modern low stall towing converter (non locking) it would make less heat and lower RPMs at cruise.
In addition, I need to check the tag on the Dana 70HD to see if it is one with a 5/8" pinion offset. If so, I might be able to put 3.73 gears in it. With those gears and my shorter 19.5 tires, first would be very similar to OEM and much lower highway rpm. Right now it is over 3400 at 70.

I should also put my old B3500's 4.1 gears in the parts section - free plus shipping.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2898600
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Oh, and another reason not to use a GV or 46RH is that I would need to add a $400 pinion E-brake, as my 727 has the tailshaft drum brake (I'd rebuilt recently).

68471012_10206394347374029_6015225702343770112_n.jpg
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2898708
03/13/21 12:01 PM
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I case someone is interested, I found this list application list.

'90-'93 A518 transmission assemblies

TRANSMISSION ASSEMBLY, Complete w/Overdrive Assy., 4-Speed Automatic, A518

5300 8101 1 B2,3-D1 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, Up To 1-14-1991
5300 7782 1 B2,3-D1 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 1-14-1991
5300 8148 1 B,D A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5211 8184 1 B,D A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8732 1 B,D A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
5300 8142 1 N 1 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5211 8730 1 N 1 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
5300 8143 1 N 5 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5211 7685 1 N 5 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8731 1 N 5 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
4505 154 1 D 5,6,8 A518, w/3.9L,5.2L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, Up To 2-12-1991 Warren Built
4505 154 1 D 5,6,8 Up To 2-8-91 Toluca Built
5300 7783 1 D 5,6,8 A518, w/3.9L,5.2L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 2-12-1991 Warren Built
5300 7783 1 D 5,6,8 After 2-8-1991 Toluca Built
5211 8231 1 D 5 A518, w/3.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5211 8187 1 D 5 A518, w/3.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8734 1 D 5 A518, w/3.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
5300 8147 1 D 5,6,8 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5211 8185 1 D 5,6,8 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8735 1 D 5,6,8 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
5300 8149 1 D 5,6,7,8 A518, w/5.2L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5300 8102 1 B2,3-T4 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, Up To 1-2-1991
5300 7784 1 B2,3-T4 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 1-2-1991
5211 8230 1 B 2,3 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5211 8721 1 B 2,3 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8736 1 B 2,3 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
5300 8102 1 D 1,2,3,4 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, Up To 1-2-1991
5300 7784 1 D 1,2,3,4 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 1-2-1991
5211 8230 1 D 1,2,3,4 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5211 8721 1 D 1,2,3,4 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8736 1 D 1,2,3,4 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
4505 156 1 D 5,6,7,8 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, Up To 1-21-91 (Some Trans. May Be Stamped 4505154)
5300 7786 1 D 5,6,7,8 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 1-21-91
5300 8152 1 D 5,6,7,8 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/o Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1992
5211 8722 1 D 5,6,7,8 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8739 1 D 5,6,7,8 A518, w/5.9L Eng. w/Electronic T/Converter Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
5300 7779 1 D 2,3 A518, w/5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL Eng., w/o Lock-Up, 1991
5211 7524 1 D 2,3 A518, w/5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL Eng., w/o Lock-Up, 1992
5211 7689 1 D 2,3 A518, w/5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL Eng., w/o Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8733 1 D 2,3 A518, w/5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL Eng., w/o Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992
5300 7780 1 D 6,7 A518, w/5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL Eng., w/o Lock-Up, 1991
5211 7525 1 D 6,7 A518, w/5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL Eng., w/o Lock-Up, 1992
5211 7694 1 D 6,7 A518, w/5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL Eng., w/o Lock-Up, 1993, Up To 10-1-1992
5211 8737 1 D 6,7 A518, w/5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL Eng., w/o Lock-Up, After 10-1-1992

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2901015
03/20/21 10:41 AM
03/20/21 10:41 AM
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Twostick Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray S
Oh, and another reason not to use a GV or 46RH is that I would need to add a $400 pinion E-brake, as my 727 has the tailshaft drum brake (I'd rebuilt recently).


Gearvendors makes a divorced unit. If your motorhome has a hanger bearing, you could install the GV unit in place of it and only have to shorten one driveshaft.

Kevin

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2901077
03/20/21 02:00 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Originally Posted by Ray S
Just to add more to the mix, I've learned that there are 2.74 ratio first gear parts out there now (there are raging debates as to whether there were such OEM options for the 727).


No debate, it's a myth.


I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: John_Kunkel] #2901157
03/20/21 06:53 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
There are low gear sets for the 727 but none were OEM. The one set I saw used a 904 planetary and sun gear scabbed together with the 727 parts. Looked really cheesy to me. I don't know who made or sold it.


"Follow me" the wise man said, but he walked behind.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2901578
03/22/21 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
There are low gear sets for the 727 but none were OEM. The one set I saw used a 904 planetary and sun gear scabbed together with the 727 parts. Looked really cheesy to me. I don't know who made or sold it.


I talked to http://www.aandatrans.com and they sell billet low gear sets, PN 22134H**** ~$600 to $900
http://www.jvxracing.com no longer sells the sets that are in their catalog...

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: John_Kunkel] #2901595
03/22/21 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
Originally Posted by Ray S
Just to add more to the mix, I've learned that there are 2.74 ratio first gear parts out there now (there are raging debates as to whether there were such OEM options for the 727).


No debate, it's a myth.


Do we know what the "police and taxi" option trans is? Only upgraded planetaries?
The motorhome 727 came with upgraded planets.

Trans ID A01 B.jpg
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2902383
03/24/21 01:46 PM
03/24/21 01:46 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Originally Posted by Ray S

The motorhome 727 came with upgraded planets.


"Upgraded" how? A BB motorhome, police or taxi trans is basically just a HD unit using the same 4-pinion planetary as any production trans, so that might be considered an "upgrade" from 3-pinion units.

The 383-2 unit circled above would have 3-pinion planetaries front and rear.


I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: John_Kunkel] #2902437
03/24/21 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
Originally Posted by Ray S

The motorhome 727 came with upgraded planets.


"Upgraded" how? A BB motorhome, police or taxi trans is basically just a HD unit using the same 4-pinion planetary as any production trans, so that might be considered an "upgrade" from 3-pinion units.

The 383-2 unit circled above would have 3-pinion planetaries front and rear.


Yes, "upgraded" meaning 4-pinions...
Which implies that the only difference in police or taxi units was the pinion count (?)

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2902665
03/25/21 12:32 PM
03/25/21 12:32 PM
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There are many differences between the standard and HD 727, not just the planetaries. The archives has a list of 727's with 4-pinion planetaries.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/auto/36.html


I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: John_Kunkel] #2902740
03/25/21 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
There are many differences between the standard and HD 727, not just the planetaries. The archives has a list of 727's with 4-pinion planetaries.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/auto/36.html


Thanks
I'd seen that you'd chimed in on this MH 727 thread as well
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2486701/re-motorhome-727.html

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: Ray S] #2904951
04/01/21 03:13 PM
04/01/21 03:13 PM
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Ray I have done some checking and a 12" converter can be used if a midplate style adapter is used to mate the 518 to the big block. If you go with the ultrabell instead of adapter then you may be limited to the 11' as Guitar mentioned. Just a heads up.

Re: OD/locking trans options for 1971 413 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2908733
04/10/21 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Ray I have done some checking and a 12" converter can be used if a midplate style adapter is used to mate the 518 to the big block. If you go with the ultrabell instead of adapter then you may be limited to the 11' as Guitar mentioned. Just a heads up.


Thanks - The Cope Racing build would have such a plate.

I'm still on the fence regarding the main options:
1. 1978+ locking TC 727 with lower 1st and diff ratio change.
2. Same 727 with GV and modern low stall TC
3. Well built 518

Another consideration is that the A727 has the P-brake on the tailhousing. Id have to weld on a pinion brake if I lost that...

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