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talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) #2881754
01/29/21 02:13 PM
01/29/21 02:13 PM
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theraif Offline OP
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wrench

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: theraif] #2881807
01/29/21 05:18 PM
01/29/21 05:18 PM
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New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline
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Very, very interesting. I guess the block must be heated up to op. temp to assemble it if it actually has an interference fit cold.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: Chargerfan68] #2881821
01/29/21 06:27 PM
01/29/21 06:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,774
A collage of whims
topside Offline
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^^^ Yes, they pre-heat the engine before firing cold.
Heck, they quit using valve springs back in the '70s, IIRC.
At one time around the V10 era, they spun 'em at 18,000 RPM.
Nothing else screams like the old F1 V8s, V10s & V12s; the hybrid stuff they run now sound like home appliances in comparison.
Whenever one of those does exhibition runs, most of the paddock gets to the fence to drink it in.

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: topside] #2881830
01/29/21 07:06 PM
01/29/21 07:06 PM
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IL
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EchoSixMike Offline
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Valve springs went away in the turbo era, middle to late 80's. Peak rpm was 20k and a little bit, has been reined back since then. S/F....Ken M

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: EchoSixMike] #2881850
01/29/21 08:05 PM
01/29/21 08:05 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,107
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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There was a company around here that did a proprietary treatment to the tops of them. I know a guy that worked there, he gave me one and I have used it as a paperweight at my desk at work for years. That's one expensive paperweight. laugh2

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: theraif] #2881891
01/29/21 09:31 PM
01/29/21 09:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,554
Here
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jcc Offline
No soup for you!!!
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Yes, that was interesting, 200g's eek, but makes me wonder, why the initial moving engine cutaway had valves, are FI engines kept heated during competition red flags, and if clearances are that critical, assuming the block is still a integral structure member of the back half of the chassis, I'm impressed that the block is rigid enough with all the road induced
and aero loads.


I'm with Helmuth Hübener, and no soup is being served today.
Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: jcc] #2881936
01/30/21 01:34 AM
01/30/21 01:34 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,641
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
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I used to have a rod bolt for a Ferrari F1 engine that I got at Lisi Aerospace in Dorval Quebec when I was delivering a machine there in the early 2000's.

I have since lost it which annoys me to no end. It looked and felt like a peice of fine jewelry. They were some kind of high zoot material that involved cobalt.

Prior to Lisi's involvement in Ferrari's engine program, they couldn't finish a race. I believe this was during the Schumacher years.

Kevin

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: Twostick] #2882025
01/30/21 12:20 PM
01/30/21 12:20 PM
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mr_340 Offline
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Originally Posted by Twostick
I used to have a rod bolt for a Ferrari F1 engine that I got at Lisi Aerospace in Dorval Quebec when I was delivering a machine there in the early 2000's.

I have since lost it which annoys me to no end. It looked and felt like a peice of fine jewelry. They were some kind of high zoot material that involved cobalt.

Prior to Lisi's involvement in Ferrari's engine program, they couldn't finish a race. I believe this was during the Schumacher years.

Kevin


That sounds like one of the multiphase alloys (not steel) like MP35N, Several years back someone had two round bars of MP35N that was 2" in diameter and about 36" long. I guess he gave up trying to machine it. I wondered if the guy wanted to make a rifle barrel (or cannon) out of it?

https://www.hcstarcksolutions.com/3-column-news/mp35n-alloy-properties-applications/


Floyd Lippencott IV
Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: mr_340] #2882058
01/30/21 01:31 PM
01/30/21 01:31 PM
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Posts: 21,774
A collage of whims
topside Offline
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A collage of whims
Note also, only 2 ring lands.
As for red flag cool-down, they must retain sufficient heat for re-start.

A fascinating book about precision is "The Perfectionists" by Simon Winchester.
It covers, in detail, how precision and the measuring of it developed from early times.

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: Chargerfan68] #2882084
01/30/21 02:54 PM
01/30/21 02:54 PM
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my own world
theraif Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Chargerfan68
Very, very interesting. I guess the block must be heated up to op. temp to assemble it if it actually has an interference fit cold.

i asked that in the comment section and didn't get a reply

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: theraif] #2882237
01/30/21 10:40 PM
01/30/21 10:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,054
Salem
Grizzly Offline
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Some bits were interesting, but, sorry, not impressed by the end of it.

Photo attached is a $270.00, 14,000 rpm piston for a 14.5:1 Yamaha YZ250f.

Without a turbocharger, the hp per liter of a $8000.00 Motocross bike or $17,000.00 Super Sport bike are well within reason of a multi-million dollar F1 car. Don't get me wrong, I like F1, but they should be embarrassed to quote those kind of dollar figures.

30.jpg

Mo' Farts

Moderated by "tbagger".
Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: Grizzly] #2882293
01/31/21 08:21 AM
01/31/21 08:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,858
NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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F1 is the US government of Europe. The manufacturing contracts go to cronies of the team owners. Another way of keeping wealth in a small circle.

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: fbs63] #2882833
02/01/21 04:14 PM
02/01/21 04:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
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I think when F1 quote costs they're including all the R&D time at what many would consider an inflated hourly rate.

This Ferrari brake pedal is worth around $150K aparently. From what I can gather, that information has come from EOS (manufacturer of the printer used, rather than the team).

https://imgur.com/r/formula1/tBmjEWF

We print a lot of stuff like this all the time, the parts aren't as expensive as you'd imagine to make, the software is a substantial investment.


Alan Jones
Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: topside] #2882933
02/01/21 08:49 PM
02/01/21 08:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 743
Southern Alberta
Uberpube Offline
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Originally Posted by topside
^^^ Yes, they pre-heat the engine before firing cold.
Heck, they quit using valve springs back in the '70s, IIRC.
At one time around the V10 era, they spun 'em at 18,000 RPM.
Nothing else screams like the old F1 V8s, V10s & V12s; the hybrid stuff they run now sound like home appliances in comparison.
Whenever one of those does exhibition runs, most of the paddock gets to the fence to drink it in.


We were at Suzuka for a track session that got rain cancelled so the track called all the staff that man the pro team pits to put on a car show. They brought out a bunch of F1 cars and all the preheating apparatus so they could do a start up for the crowd.
Lots of stuff, a generator, some kind of gas fired heater and an air compressor. We( easily 200+ people) all stood in the rain for an hour outside the pit garages just to hear the cars start up. Pretty intense experience to hear them up close.

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: Grizzly] #2882935
02/01/21 08:51 PM
02/01/21 08:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Production numbers are also a factor.
Yamaha makes tens of thousands of YZ450 F's and YZ250 F's I bet.
Formula One manufacturers probably don't make ten of each.
R&D costs are astronomical and they only swim in the deep end of the technology pool.
That being said , the average non car person who hears this number will have no frame of reference and be duly impressed.
I kind of see the game , and I am still impressed.
Plus , I like to say " Unobtanium ".

Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: tubtar] #2882937
02/01/21 08:54 PM
02/01/21 08:54 PM
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Southern Alberta
Uberpube Offline
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Found a picture of one of the cars.

FB_IMG_1612230774022.jpg
Re: talk about pistions Why F1 Pistons Cost £50,000(usd 68,598) [Re: Uberpube] #2882939
02/01/21 08:58 PM
02/01/21 08:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
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Southern Alberta
Uberpube Offline
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