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Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: Bad340fish] #2875148
01/16/21 04:36 PM
01/16/21 04:36 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Originally Posted by Bad340fish


Just to update this mine indeed does run off of four wires and can run the fan alone on command, or on schedule whatever.



Heating and cooling or just heating?


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Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: John_Kunkel] #2875319
01/17/21 12:29 AM
01/17/21 12:29 AM
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Tulsa OK
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
Originally Posted by Bad340fish


Just to update this mine indeed does run off of four wires and can run the fan alone on command, or on schedule whatever.



Heating and cooling or just heating?


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Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: MI_Custumz] #2875378
01/17/21 07:00 AM
01/17/21 07:00 AM
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you need a common ( c ) wire for it to work properly


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Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: Wirenut] #2875379
01/17/21 07:23 AM
01/17/21 07:23 AM
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Port Huron, Michigan
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Originally Posted by Wirenut
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
I'm sure if I had a furnace or electrician come in they could run new wires and hook it up no issues. The circuit board on the furnace isn't something I want to mess with. I came across this one and seems like a programmable one like we have now, but added wifi.

https://www.amazon.com/Emerson-Sens...p3Q&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0


You say circuit board. Is it a zone panel that controls zone dampers ?
If so it could complicate things depending on age .
Honeywell is the best, and they make something called a common maker. Look into it , I think it’s simple.


I meant the circuit board in the furnace where the wiring for the thermostat hooks into. No idea what a zone panel is. That's why I was hoping for a wifi thermostat that works without a C wire. I have heat and central air. If the Nest steals power when running, there are a few weeks when the furnace/AC is not on at all. Usually spring and fall when it's nice out.

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: Bad340fish] #2875380
01/17/21 07:24 AM
01/17/21 07:24 AM
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Port Huron, Michigan
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Originally Posted by Bad340fish
Originally Posted by Bad340fish
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
I'm told you can run a wi-fi with four wires but you have to forego the continuous fan mode. IOW, the fan will only work in the AUTO mode.


I'll try to remember to look at mine today. I think my nest is only setup with four wires and I do have the ability to control the fan alone. I have it set to run a little every hour during the day when we are not home and the system is set to "away temps".


Just to update this mine indeed does run off of four wires and can run the fan alone on command, or on schedule whatever.



I see you have the extra blue wire there. Is that the C wire? How would you find out if a wire has 24V? I know a multimeter can check it, but one end on the wire and where would the other go?

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: MI_Custumz] #2877979
01/21/21 05:25 PM
01/21/21 05:25 PM
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Not an expert by any means but I think you'll be fine. My gas company is running an incentive program right now offering the basic Nest thermostat for free, or the more expensive learning thermostat for $95 ($150 off). I ran the compatibility checker and came up with the result that my system (also 4-wire) 'should' work with it,so I said [censored] l'll get one...

I just installed it today. I have gas heat, central a/c forced air. In my case wires are red to RH, white to W, green to G, and blue to Y. I hooked it up the same way to the Nest and - good to go.

It won't let me test the a/c due to the cold outside temps (built-in safety feature) but the fan and heat work as they should. Power to the unit seems fine, the screen activates when you walk by as it should.

If your wires are thin, like 20 gauge single strand / solid then you have the low voltage (24v) setup. 120v I believe are braided like you might see in a lamp fixture or ceiling fan control module wiring, etc. and should also state this somewhere on the thermostat.





IMG_0993 .jpgIMG_0994 .jpgIMG_0995 .jpg
Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: EV2RTSE] #2878205
01/22/21 06:52 AM
01/22/21 06:52 AM
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Port Huron, Michigan
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I don't see any warning about high voltage on the thermostat cover or front of the unit. Will have to check behind the unit where it meets the wall, but would assume it would be posted somewhere easy to see. I have a red going to the RH with a jumper to RC, Yellow to Y, Green to G, and White to W. The wires appear to be solid and thin. The thermostat wires in the furnace show Red=R, Yellow=Y, Green=G, Blue=C, and White=W. It has some wires tied into the blue one, but no blue to the thermostat. I really don't want to start crossing or tapping into wires. I have a humidifier control under the thermostat that we don't use and think one of the wires comes from the C wire in the furnace. Not wanting to swap wires either until I get the ok from the HVAC guy. May hold off until they come for their yearly cleaning and ask questions then. I don't really want one that turns on and off when we leave the house because we have pets and a kid that stays home when we go on date nights. Rather have it set on a schedule where we can manually tweak it on the phone. Heard Nest may cycle the furnace to draw power to charge the battery. Hoping it would get enough charge to not cycle the furnace to the point it put wear and tear on the unit that it may not need. They sell plug in adapters to substitute the C wire I could do, but then have to hide the wire since there is not a plug real close to the thermostat.

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: MI_Custumz] #2878235
01/22/21 09:46 AM
01/22/21 09:46 AM
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I did read in the instructions that if you have any jumpers to not use them with the Nest- and this would seem to confirm that as well -
https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9250973?hl=en

So installation should be as simple as Red to RH (or just R), Yellow to Y, Green to G, and White to W

I believe power comes from red, are the batteries in your original thermostat just a backup for your settings possibly?

It is fully programmable with the Nest app and you can do away with the turning on and off when you leave the house and just run it more like a regular programmable thermostat. I will be doing the same thing, as my wife is working from home all the time for now whereas I still go in to the office a couple of times per week.

Not trying to sell you on one brand over another.





Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: EV2RTSE] #2878322
01/22/21 12:53 PM
01/22/21 12:53 PM
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Port Huron, Michigan
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Originally Posted by EV2RTSE
I did read in the instructions that if you have any jumpers to not use them with the Nest- and this would seem to confirm that as well -
https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9250973?hl=en

So installation should be as simple as Red to RH (or just R), Yellow to Y, Green to G, and White to W

I believe power comes from red, are the batteries in your original thermostat just a backup for your settings possibly?

It is fully programmable with the Nest app and you can do away with the turning on and off when you leave the house and just run it more like a regular programmable thermostat. I will be doing the same thing, as my wife is working from home all the time for now whereas I still go in to the office a couple of times per week.

Not trying to sell you on one brand over another.




Was looking into the Emerson Sensi because it's like the one we have now, but with wifi. Battery operated and no C wire required, but not sure how long the batteries last. I usually change all house batteries twice a year when we change time for DST.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Emerson...Thermostat-for-Smart-Home-ST55/301231478

Sam's also has the Nest Thermostat E on sale for like $80. Not sure if they still have them in stock. Leaning towards the Nest because it's been around and proven, but the Sensi has a 3 year warranty and may not need to cycle the furnace for power.

Current thermostat loses settings and display when batteries are pulled. Not sure if it works or not without batteries. Never tried it.

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: MI_Custumz] #2878327
01/22/21 01:00 PM
01/22/21 01:00 PM
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Port Huron, Michigan
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Another thing we are used to is heat and cool being separate. I don't want it to run one or the other on it's own. I want to be on one or the other making me change it. If it sits for a few weeks without running, will the Nest batteries die or run the furnace/AC to get it recharged?

Sorry for all the questions, but would hate to not have heat/air when we need it and freak out if the batteries die.

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: MI_Custumz] #2878333
01/22/21 01:06 PM
01/22/21 01:06 PM
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My thermostat allows for separate heat and cool functions as well as combined, but its not internet connected so outside the topic. I suspect you can get internet connected ones that do that as well.

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: Sniper] #2878472
01/22/21 04:08 PM
01/22/21 04:08 PM
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With the Nest you can select heat / cool or both.

Looking into this further, I too am reading that if the battery starts to get low the system will run to charge it, and sometimes short cycling can occur. Doesn't seem like a great solution for something that's supposed to save energy overall. But I don't think battery drain will be a problem whenever the system is running at least a few times per day. Around here we basically go right from winter to summer and back to winter again, as far as HVAC use goes. There's maybe a 3-4 week interval each spring or fall that we won't be using either the a/c or heat and just have the windows open. So hopefully this won't be a big deal, if it is I guess I'll go ahead and run a common wire rather than rely on the system to run just to charge the battery. Or maybe just shutting it off for that short time frame would be another option.

I guess being connected to wifi causes a good amount of the battery draw but there are also 3 screen brightness levels, I'll probably use the lowest setting. I also just found you can set the display to turn on any time it senses someone approaching, or only activate when the button is pressed. I'm going to use the button to activate the display to avoid unnecessary battery drain from people walking by. Thermostat is in our hallway.

Depending on the model the Nest can be recharged with either an Android USB phone charger, or some apparently have AAA batteries. So either way if they do run down at least it's not a big deal to get the system back up and running again.




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Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: John_Kunkel] #2878545
01/22/21 06:23 PM
01/22/21 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
I'm told you can run a wi-fi with four wires but you have to forego the continuous fan mode. IOW, the fan will only work in the AUTO mode.

The module or the fan burnt up in my Trane so no A/C and gas furnace.
Installed late 2007 every thing new as swapped from electric to gas. New everything even the ducts and pan.
Still used the same type gray 4 wire to the stat.
My friend since high school is my HVAC guy and close friend.
He swapped the motor and module out and upgraded the thermostat and use the same 4 wires again when he swapped the parts.
Took 5 10 min. To just pull it and stick the same 4 wires on.
Is a Vive Comfort one and works well and is programmable like the OP asked about. Does all kids of stuff this old fart does not need.


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Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: 340SIX] #2878750
01/23/21 05:53 AM
01/23/21 05:53 AM
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Should have 5 wires
Nest will produce issues eventually without a C connection
Had one for year at a customers with 4 wires . , worked great until it updated automatically
Ran a proper wire , its working great now.

I recommend hw from Home Depot or Lowes
Inexpensive . Easy app.

B9D77E7F-392F-49FA-926E-2C56416D918A.jpeg
Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: sogtx] #2878752
01/23/21 07:00 AM
01/23/21 07:00 AM
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Port Huron, Michigan
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Originally Posted by sogtx
Should have 5 wires
Nest will produce issues eventually without a C connection
Had one for year at a customers with 4 wires . , worked great until it updated automatically
Ran a proper wire , its working great now.

I recommend hw from Home Depot or Lowes
Inexpensive . Easy app.




That one looks like it requires a C wire.

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: MI_Custumz] #2879733
01/25/21 07:10 AM
01/25/21 07:10 AM
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How would I check the wires for 24V of power? I have a electrical tester for plugs and wires, but that isn't sensitive enough to go off for the thermostat. I have a cheap Harbor Freight multimeter, but not sure where to put the black end. I would assume the red goes to the wire I'm testing, but not sure about the black. Also assuming the furnace wouldn't need to be running to see which one has constant power. Heat/cool ones should have power when running, but not when it's not running correct?

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: MI_Custumz] #2879794
01/25/21 11:26 AM
01/25/21 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
How would I check the wires for 24V of power? I have a electrical tester for plugs and wires, but that isn't sensitive enough to go off for the thermostat. I have a cheap Harbor Freight multimeter, but not sure where to put the black end. I would assume the red goes to the wire I'm testing, but not sure about the black. Also assuming the furnace wouldn't need to be running to see which one has constant power. Heat/cool ones should have power when running, but not when it's not running correct?


To check for 24 vac at the T-Stat with a meter, you would need to have a common wire present.
You should have "around" 24 vac between the Red wire found on the RH/RC terminal and usually a Black wire that would be found on the C terminal.

A lot of older systems do not have the 5th wire aka "C Wire" available at the T-Stat. Reason is that it is not necessary unless you have to power a Smart T-Stat with 24 vac.

Last edited by rarefish; 01/25/21 11:27 AM.
Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: rarefish] #2879857
01/25/21 01:27 PM
01/25/21 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rarefish
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
How would I check the wires for 24V of power? I have a electrical tester for plugs and wires, but that isn't sensitive enough to go off for the thermostat. I have a cheap Harbor Freight multimeter, but not sure where to put the black end. I would assume the red goes to the wire I'm testing, but not sure about the black. Also assuming the furnace wouldn't need to be running to see which one has constant power. Heat/cool ones should have power when running, but not when it's not running correct?


To check for 24 vac at the T-Stat with a meter, you would need to have a common wire present.
You should have "around" 24 vac between the Red wire found on the RH/RC terminal and usually a Black wire that would be found on the C terminal.

A lot of older systems do not have the 5th wire aka "C Wire" available at the T-Stat. Reason is that it is not necessary unless you have to power a Smart T-Stat with 24 vac.


I have a humidifier that is wired under the thermostat. I think one of those is wired into the C wire in the furnace. I was hoping to test those to see if one has constant power and possibly use that for a C wire since we don't use the humidifier. The thermostat wiring has 6 wires, 4 for thermostat and 2 for humidifier. Just thinking about options on how to do it since I tend to rush into things and end up redoing them later.

Re: Smart and/or wifi thermostat for home [Re: MI_Custumz] #2880117
01/25/21 08:20 PM
01/25/21 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
Originally Posted by rarefish
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
How would I check the wires for 24V of power? I have a electrical tester for plugs and wires, but that isn't sensitive enough to go off for the thermostat. I have a cheap Harbor Freight multimeter, but not sure where to put the black end. I would assume the red goes to the wire I'm testing, but not sure about the black. Also assuming the furnace wouldn't need to be running to see which one has constant power. Heat/cool ones should have power when running, but not when it's not running correct?


To check for 24 vac at the T-Stat with a meter, you would need to have a common wire present.
You should have "around" 24 vac between the Red wire found on the RH/RC terminal and usually a Black wire that would be found on the C terminal.

A lot of older systems do not have the 5th wire aka "C Wire" available at the T-Stat. Reason is that it is not necessary unless you have to power a Smart T-Stat with 24 vac.


I have a humidifier that is wired under the thermostat. I think one of those is wired into the C wire in the furnace. I was hoping to test those to see if one has constant power and possibly use that for a C wire since we don't use the humidifier. The thermostat wiring has 6 wires, 4 for thermostat and 2 for humidifier. Just thinking about options on how to do it since I tend to rush into things and end up redoing them later.


If you don't use the humidifier and more and the two wires for it are at the same location as the T-stat, then I would say, go ahead and use one of those wires for the T-stat "C wire".
Back at the furnace, you will need to disconnect the two wires that are for the the humidifier and move the one that will be the T-stat "C wire" to the C terminal on your control board.

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