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Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: GOLD67GTX] #2877579
01/20/21 10:42 PM
01/20/21 10:42 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Your doing the correct thing in asking for help on your car, determining who is helping and who is B.S. ing you is the hard part whiney work
Have you tried different starting line stall speeds and different shift RPM for both 1st and 2nd gear yet? Probably not yet but put that on your list to try, do one change or test at a time and keep notes for every run with any or no changes.
If it goes way slower or quicker on one run and then goes back to normal throw that run out and try and find out what happen with that run to try and identify the problem, spinning, miss the shift RPM, bogged, time slip error or what ever it was scope up
Keep us in the loop, when can you race your car again?

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/20/21 10:42 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: GOLD67GTX] #2877592
01/20/21 11:11 PM
01/20/21 11:11 PM
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TN Hoosier
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Originally Posted by GOLD67GTX
Andy, my converter comes out at 5100-5200, 6500 shift points, crosses at 6600-6700. Pretty much stays between 5800-6600 most of the run. I really value your opinion, and I’m thinking with a 1.58 60ft, the single plane is doing well. I thought a performer rpm might not cut it. Your thoughts? Btw, I’m still dialing it in, only about 12 passes so far.


I have a pretty similar setup as yours and I run a M1 4500 and a 4150 carb. My best to date 11.35 @ 118 and my 60' needs help and still sorting out the combo. Same weight, 0.40 over 440, 266@0.50 & .600 SFT, Eddy RPM's breathed on a little by Mr. Porter, and 4500 stall. And my best was with leaving it in Drive and letting it shift around 5700, which is below optimal...but I was trying to keep it near 11.50 index at Holley Moparty.

When the engine was on the dyno I ran both a Victor and this M1 and they were almost identical on paper. I went with the M1 due to height and I like the angle machined in to keep carb level.

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: jb500] #2877625
01/21/21 12:21 AM
01/21/21 12:21 AM
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CT
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Where in CT are you from, and how often do you go to LVD? A gold '67 X sounds right up my alley. (my car below)

My .02 - You've got alot of cam already, the TF would take more advantage of it, but as suggested what you really probably need more of is mid range torque, but with your 5100 stall speed it wouldn't get used. I think its worth a try, but you might be better off spending the money elsewhere.

There was a mag article from years ago from Steve Dulcich that tested a ton of different intakes on a 440 with really well ported stock heads and a 260 @ .050 solid roller. It was a 620ish HP combo and 666 HP with a tunnel ram. Link is below. The Eddy Victor was worth 10 HP peak and 10 ft lbs at torque peak of 4900 RPM over the M1. I hear the Trick Flow is a bit better than the Victor.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0207-intake-manifold-engine-and-rpm-range-test/

I assume 3900 at the line includes you? What do you have for a fuel pump?


Satellite1.jpg
Last edited by GTX MATT; 01/21/21 12:53 AM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: GOLD67GTX] #2877648
01/21/21 01:08 AM
01/21/21 01:08 AM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted by GOLD67GTX
My first post gives the spec rundown, and so far it’s gone 11.45 at 116.3
I know a huge issue is the 3925# launch weight. But like all of us, we all strive for different things. I'm testing to see how quick and fast this particular 446 combo goes, albeit only 12 passes in. It’s about trying slightly different stuff outside the norm, and I’ve found I learn a lot that way. By that I mean this combo is very far from perfect, but I’m just working my plan. With all your help, gets even better. That’s why I’m here.


116 mph @ 3900 lbs works out to less than 500 hp on the Moroso slide rule. A 440 with TF240 heads, good compression and decent solid cam like you have should make 600 hp on the dyno. So you might have a bigger issue than which intake to use.

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: mopar dave] #2878027
01/21/21 07:45 PM
01/21/21 07:45 PM
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I just measured the Trick flow intake mounted to 240 heads on my 440 and it is 6.250 to the china wall from the carb flange front and rear.

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #2880697
01/26/21 11:12 PM
01/26/21 11:12 PM
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South Florida
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Thanks for the duration info Dwayne and Andy. Yes I thought the cam was a little higher than needed, but I was curious how the 10.9 cr and the cam would react together in this combo, and how much I could squeeze out of it.

Cab, I may go this weekend, weather and air looks excellent. Down here in Florida, that is. I’ve also used a trusty logbook to document details of the runs.
Actually started recording the tach in the car with my iPhone....that really opened my eyes to what was going on. I’ll post that story a little later.

And someone commented about the converter....yes, I think I’ve got more slip than needed. Once I get a little more time in, I’ll talk to Lenny/Montgomery at UCC, it’s one of theirs. I believe at one point I calc’d the converter at roughly 10% slip.

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: nss guy] #2880700
01/26/21 11:16 PM
01/26/21 11:16 PM
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South Florida
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I’m running a 4.10 spool 83/4 with Hoosier QTP 27x10.5/15.

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: jb500] #2880701
01/26/21 11:19 PM
01/26/21 11:19 PM
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Jb500, what tire are you running, ratio, and 60 so far?

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: GTX MATT] #2880704
01/26/21 11:25 PM
01/26/21 11:25 PM
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South Florida
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GTX Matt, 3900 with me yes. Holley blue pump. Originally Enfield CT, spent lots of time on the Belin Tpke in 90s and even more at LVD from 95 to 2005. Now in Florida where I can race all year long so I can spend even more time and money chasing those dreamy timeslips!

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: AndyF] #2880707
01/26/21 11:38 PM
01/26/21 11:38 PM
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Agreed. More testing planned for this weekend. I’ve got a afr gauge installed to help watch the mixture, I’ll be recording that to see if perhaps I’m leaning out somewhere. I also feel as if my converter is giving up more hp than needed.
When I get a chance, I’ll post a time slip for forensic evaluation.
I’ll be testing timing changes and posting that info also. The run I made was at 38 degrees total to start, but I’ll be working my way down during testing to see how right or wrong I was. I started there, thinking the engine might like more timing with the big duration and less than optimal compression.

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: GOLD67GTX] #2881117
01/27/21 10:11 PM
01/27/21 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by GOLD67GTX
Jb500, what tire are you running, ratio, and 60 so far?

275/60 MT ET Street
4.10 with 3800# SS Springs
1.61 60' It could be better if I added Skinnies, shocks, and /6 T-Bars, but that's down the road.

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: GOLD67GTX] #2881122
01/27/21 10:28 PM
01/27/21 10:28 PM
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Did you verify TDC on your balancer and dampener to insure your reading the actual total timing? If not you should, if so have you tried less timing yet? If not I would up wrench
I haven't built a stock stroke, or stroker, 440 motor with the TF240 heads yet so maybe those heads will make more power at 38 degrees total timing confused
Let us know how your doing as you go faster and quicker, that will help others on here thumbs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #2881198
01/28/21 09:46 AM
01/28/21 09:46 AM
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my black 65 is 440 trick flow 240 30over around 10to1 small solid cam from bullet 252 260 @ 50 car is 3900 1155 @ 116 38 degrees of timing

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #2881885
01/29/21 10:01 PM
01/29/21 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Did you verify TDC on your balancer and dampener to insure your reading the actual total timing? If not you should, if so have you tried less timing yet? If not I would up wrench
I haven't built a stock stroke, or stroker, 440 motor with the TF240 heads yet so maybe those heads will make more power at 38 degrees total timing confused
Let us know how your doing as you go faster and quicker, that will help others on here thumbs


Going Saturday night (tomorrow) specifically to test the timing only. I’ll report in a few days with a full rundown. Very interested in seeing how it reacts going from 38 down to 32 in increments.
I’ll definitely post results. Can’t stand it when people don’t share!

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: one bad fish] #2881886
01/29/21 10:04 PM
01/29/21 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by one bad fish
my black 65 is 440 trick flow 240 30over around 10to1 small solid cam from bullet 252 260 @ 50 car is 3900 1155 @ 116 38 degrees of timing


Thanks for the info. Is 38 timing where it runs best? Ever tried different timing?

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: GOLD67GTX] #2881909
01/29/21 11:46 PM
01/29/21 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GOLD67GTX
Originally Posted by one bad fish
my black 65 is 440 trick flow 240 30over around 10to1 small solid cam from bullet 252 260 @ 50 car is 3900 1155 @ 116 38 degrees of timing


Thanks for the info. Is 38 timing where it runs best? Ever tried different timing?
yes it likes 38

Re: M1 vs TF intake on a 440 Questions [Re: GOLD67GTX] #2883812
02/03/21 10:16 PM
02/03/21 10:16 PM
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Liverpool, NY
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While I don’t have the M1 to TF help.
I can say i also have a 3,930 pound car.

505
10.96 comp fed with Sunoco 93
440-1 CNC 325, 2.19 intake
34* timing
M1 4150 intake..used to have the INDY 2D
1,000 cfm AED
2” header
260/268 @ 50
.585/.600 flat tappet
109 LSA
104-105 ICL
8” convertor
3.54 gear
9x28 radial slick
Shift @ 6300 and 6200...stripe @ 6200

It’s a 10.90’s car @ 121-122....hit 123 once

Be neat to see what yours does with the TF intake.

Mine liked going from the 2D to the M1 with the -1 heads.
I had to get the flanges welded on the M1 to cover the intake ports on the -1 heads.
Love to get my hands on a 440-2 / 4150.....the 440-2 / 4500 i have seems huge

C8F1BFBE-3B87-4663-ABDF-FA48AED8A049.jpeg
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