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Swingout kit or curved side bars? #2875412
01/17/21 10:41 AM
01/17/21 10:41 AM
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Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline OP
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I was planning to install swing outs to both side bars in my 62 Plymouth, but wondering if curved side bars might be a better option. Obviously, there will still be some side stepping over a curved bar, but are there any other pros/cons I should be considering here? Thanks for any input


2 kids and a dog
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: TonyS451] #2875415
01/17/21 10:46 AM
01/17/21 10:46 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Online sleepy
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Are you racing the car? NHRA don’t like curved side bars, swing out is fine with them in done correctly

Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: cudaman1969] #2875418
01/17/21 10:52 AM
01/17/21 10:52 AM
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Portage,michigan
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B3422W5 Offline
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Swingouts if you are ever gonna hit the track with it. Obviously easier to get in also


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3350 race weight
418 Bloomer headed stroker
Best so far, 10.68 at 124.48
1.44 best 60 foot.
6.76 at 101.63 best 1 /8

Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: B3422W5] #2875420
01/17/21 10:54 AM
01/17/21 10:54 AM
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Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline OP
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Yes I plan to race it, so I should have specified that legality is most important


2 kids and a dog
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: TonyS451] #2875425
01/17/21 11:20 AM
01/17/21 11:20 AM
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A shed in England
Tig Offline
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Swing out bars are legal to 8:50 IIRC up


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: Tig] #2875435
01/17/21 11:57 AM
01/17/21 11:57 AM
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NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
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Go with curved bars and yes they are legal and will certify to 8.50 if done correctly

IMG_3029.jpgIMG_3031.jpg
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: DoubleD] #2875507
01/17/21 01:26 PM
01/17/21 01:26 PM
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Wichita
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GY3 Online content
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Mine are curved to clear the armests in my '63. They were done by a local chassis shop and, while they aren't 100% legal to the letter of the NHRA rulebook, I've never had a tech have an issue with them. We race at 5 different NHRA AND IHRA tracks with it.

I like them welded in vs. theswingout style because of the added rigidity to the chassis.


20170331_182321.jpg
Last edited by GY3; 01/17/21 01:27 PM.

'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: GY3] #2875515
01/17/21 01:32 PM
01/17/21 01:32 PM
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Puyallup, WA
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Similar as above here. I’ve been racing regularly. One tech so far has mentioned it. It was at the Division 6 finals, made it through tech just fine, then the lead tech came and found me in the pits to talk about it. They let me race but just posed it as “we want you to be safe, it really should be changed”. I’ll probably go to a swing out bar at some point.

CC6FC803-01B0-4577-8F71-08956AA4386B.jpeg

LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: GY3] #2875533
01/17/21 01:59 PM
01/17/21 01:59 PM
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Trumussia
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jcc Offline
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Originally Posted by GY3
Mine are curved to clear the armests in my '63. They were done by a local chassis shop and, while they aren't 100% legal to the letter of the NHRA rulebook, I've never had a tech have an issue with them. We race at 5 different NHRA AND IHRA tracks with it.

I like them welded in vs. theswingout style because of the added rigidity to the chassis.



I assume that is the pass side pic. the addition of one additional per side tube, from the bottom corner of the side bar bend, diagonally down to the base of the main roll bar, would substantially increase the rigidity of the roll bar system significantly, for very little additional weight, cost, or effort.


If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: TonyS451] #2875560
01/17/21 02:56 PM
01/17/21 02:56 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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A bar curved in its linear axis will change length when compressed or tensioned, a straight tube won't. Unless it's significantly stiffer than its linked tubes, this bending will allow the others to move.
NHRA doesn't have any structural engineers making these decisions...


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Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: jcc] #2875566
01/17/21 03:03 PM
01/17/21 03:03 PM
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Sunnyvale, CA
Jeepmon Offline
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The nice thing about swing out bars are you can remove them and then re-install them when needed.

Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: Jeepmon] #2875575
01/17/21 03:10 PM
01/17/21 03:10 PM
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St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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I went with swing outs on my early A body.
If I was to do it over again , I would have gone through the dash though.
Going behind the dash with the cage makes it harder getting in and out and really closes down the amount of room in the car.
I don't think I would feel as crammed in there had I run the down tubes through the dash.

IMG_3019.JPG
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: polyspheric] #2875620
01/17/21 04:28 PM
01/17/21 04:28 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
A bar curved in its linear axis will change length when compressed or tensioned, a straight tube won't. Unless it's significantly stiffer than its linked tubes, this bending will allow the others to move.
NHRA doesn't have any structural engineers making these decisions...


True, although the degree of the bend matters. A 10 degree kink in a door bar is not as significant of an issue as a 45 or 60 degree bend I see in some of these photos. On any major tube, I will support any bend over 30 or so with a diagonal of some sort...

Frankly I don't see how some of the bars in the photos got a tag put on them. I don't think that would fly in NHRA D1. And the bends certainly reduce the effectiveness of stiffening the car.

I have done some bars like that for restomods and drivers with the stipulation that it wasn't legal for competition. And the guys who just wanted to sneak into an occasional TnT were OK with that.

There's a difference between "dipping" the bar down to get over it easier and tweaking it out to keep it tight to the door for max driver space. On new cars with the bigger plastic door panels, it's not unusual to shape the side bar to fit the door snug - horizontally out, not dipping it down. Older cars with a flat door panel, I may tweak it up over the door handle, window crank, etc. and/or adjust the bar up or down. They can still be a challenge for an old fat guy to get in and out with the steering wheel and seat in the stock location. But there's only so much wiggle room in the rules and in keeping the thing safe.

Swing out bars are okay when properly done. Attachment angles adjusted so they open flat rather than flop down. They still cost some rigidity, and make window nets a pain. I wouldn't bend a sidebar down excessively unless it was just for looks.

One trick on the swing out is to make it a solid bar to fit the door nice, weld it in, then slice it where you want to make the swing out. Looks much nicer and is easier than working with three separate pieces.

IMG_4752[1].JPG

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: CMcAllister] #2875625
01/17/21 04:41 PM
01/17/21 04:41 PM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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If I were to install swing out bars, would install a floor bar to keep rigitity.


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: hemi-itis] #2875654
01/17/21 05:26 PM
01/17/21 05:26 PM
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St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Originally Posted by hemi-itis
If I were to install swing out bars, would install a floor bar to keep rigitity.

I did on the driver's side , per the rule book.
But with the sub frame connectors and full cage , this car is stiffer than a husband on a honeymoon.
If you put a floor jack inside of either front or rear wheel , the whole side of the car comes up.
It puts a premium on having good working suspension.............which I still haven't figured out yet.

Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: tubtar] #2875661
01/17/21 05:48 PM
01/17/21 05:48 PM
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Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline OP
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https://link.shutterfly.com/70miFNL87cb

Thanks for the great feedback. Here’s a pic so you can see what I’m working with


2 kids and a dog
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: TonyS451] #2875728
01/17/21 08:22 PM
01/17/21 08:22 PM
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So Near, Yet So Far
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A couple of thoughts:

If you want to retain the armrests, mock up the door bars with a length of PVC.
I have a removable limiting strap on the driver's door so I can close it myself when belted in.

Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: polyspheric] #2876795
01/19/21 06:53 PM
01/19/21 06:53 PM
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jcc Offline
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
A bar curved in its linear axis will change length when compressed or tensioned, a straight tube won't. Unless it's significantly stiffer than its linked tubes, this bending will allow the others to move.
NHRA doesn't have any structural engineers making these decisions...


I think I understand your point on qualifying/noting the thickness of the bent tube in this context, but not to mislead anybody here, if the bent tube for arguments sake is the same dia as the connecting tubes, even if the bent tube was solid, it will still flex to some degree, and change its length as you noted. My point in noting this, there is no thickness increase solution feasible/practical, when the addition of a simple straight brace is possible, originating at the bend.


If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: jcc] #2876878
01/19/21 09:00 PM
01/19/21 09:00 PM
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MI
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68shifter Offline
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Swing out.

Not knocking the guys with curved bars but neither the IHRA or NHRA inspectors here in MI would pass those to an 8.50. And several tracks the Midwest “CAN” have prickly inspectors at times. Probably one of the worst things is the inconsistency. But it does state right in the rule book that side bar must pass at a mid point between elbow and shoulder. Obviously not all enforce it, but if you ever drive 4-6 hrs for a race then get turned away...

87AFF247-FCE1-46BF-BE58-8ABAF742D941.jpeg

68' Barracuda (4 speed) 64' Savoy (4 speed) 65' Satellite (girl tranny)
Re: Swingout kit or curved side bars? [Re: 68shifter] #2877095
01/20/21 11:11 AM
01/20/21 11:11 AM
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Las Vegas
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IMO a swing out is the route I would and likely will choose eventually. Curved bars like some shown can and will cause you a problem with some tech officials as they are not letter of the law legal.


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