if wrong place sorry mod`s , just the bad part of the story
As Battery Market Soars, Demand For Lithium Grows
"""His biggest concern is the amount of chemicals being used. According to the mining company's estimates, the process would create 2,900 tons of sulfuric acid every day at the start, and double that when it reaches full production. That process could lead to serious health effects if any of that material were to leach out into the air or ground or if there was an accident during transportation.

“I mean, it's not like we're just hauling lumber or something,” Bartell says. “It's pretty dangerous chemicals that are going to be hauled up and down the road, so if there's an accident or something, that could potentially impact people.”And then there's the fuel side of it. The company will consume more than 26,000 gallons of diesel fuel every day"""
if you want to read the full story > https://www.kunr.org/post/nevadas-v...uel-energy-transition-what-cost#stream/0

I don't even look at the eco arguments for or against EV tech. I look at it through the lens of national security. The more diverse we are in our energy consumption the harder we are to pin down by foreign countries and the less susceptible we are to one industry. I just wish people would stop fighting ICE or EV and just embrace both.

I worked at a place that built EV batteries. It’s not the thing we need, just like the stupid windmills.
You MUST look at the big picture on this new “stuff”. And it’s dirty & expensive.

Sure makes some cool accelerating vehicles tho!!


https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/t...lds-fastest-accelerating-car-now-on-sale

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/hurrah-aspark-owl-now-officially-sale

Imaginary eco benefits notwithstanding, they will absolutely haul a$$!!

https://youtu.be/fWrUl3uemb4

Kevin

Lets see, who can afford them?
Not Me
Me thinks most ecologist (SP?) hate America and want to limit our consumption of the worlds resources
The uncontrolled growth of the world population is a upcoming deadly problem for ALL of US here on earth

I saw a Concept One in Manhattan - beautiful car!

Much of this stuff is about marketing to people's "feelings."

So often it's about making people "feel" like they are making a difference more than actually making a concrete, tangible difference. And about politicians making it appear that they are "taking action" so they can get re-elected.

The place I worked just took down all it's 6-year old T5 fluorescent light fixtures (already very efficient and still like new) to put up slightly newer LED fixtures because the "sustainability committee" got money from the power company and they wanted to do it. What a waste.

Meanwhile, down in the boiler room where nobody sees, the building is cooled by a chiller from 1991 and heated by a gas-fired boiler from 1979. Obscenely inefficient, but no one cares because they can't see it or don't understand how it works.

A lot of this drive to EVs is a feel good movement. That is, look at us we are saving the environment because I'm not burning a hydrocarbon to move my butt around. People either aren't capable of realizing the amount of resources required to make EVs or don't care because they want to feel good. Hey, lets us H2 fuel cell vehicles. But getting green H2 is costly (we are starting to discover getting rid of wind turbine blades that have reached their useful life is troublesome) and cheap H2 is from a hydrocarbon anyway. One of the biggest things we should be focusing on is how to convert plastics back to raw hydrocarbon.

When they start getting that low for on the streets, they will have to redesign the under ride protection on trailers.

The hydrogen people are just as myopic as the electric people.

Ballard Power is in Vancouver BC and they make hydrogen fuel cells. Of course the Greenies think every vehicle on the lower mainland should run on hydrogen. Somebody calculated that if you were to supply that hydrogen by electrolysis, it would tale an amount of water the size of Vancouver Harbour to do it.

Guess how much water you get as a byproduct of burning all that hydrogen?

Going to have to upgrade the storm sewers I guess...

Kevin

Yeah there are going to be big environmental problems with EV production, no doubt about that. The vehicles themselves are very cool. Once more people get some seat time in an EV they'll like them. We could probably switch 1/3 of the current cars over to EV and everyone would be happier since their driving experience would be better but it will take some time to do it. Sort of like smart phones gradually replacing land lines. It took roughly ten years for a lot of people to switch.

It's technology for technology's sake, seems to me, with a huge feel-good hyping from the non-car & anti-car media.
If you look into what's required to build them, the foolishness and hypocrisy becomes evident.

100% correct. At this point, application of technology because they can. The reality is they make very little sense and the structure of the US will never support it to large scale. Everyone thinks electricity is 'free' and 'clean'. Hilarious.

I am curious to see the math. Looking at Vancouver Harbor between the Lions Gate and Iron Workers bridges, I estimate about 114x10^9 gallons of water I am involved in a couple of H2 fuel cell vehicle projects (around infrastructure and H2 supply). If my calculations are correct, you could power 8.5 million cars for 10 years with the water from the bay. Or, if every vehicle in the US were H2 fuel cell, you could fuel every one of them for about 4 months. That is assuming that the resulting moisture is never replenished back into the ground. You do need a lot of water to get a small amount of H2 (every kg of water only has 0.05kg of H2).

Currently the majority of H2 in US is by steam methane reforming. Though there is a good amount that is produced by chemical process off-gas. The issue with SMR is that it produced a lot of CO2. Which is the one thing everyone agrees is causing global warming. There are some newer reforming technologies that reduce the CO2 production. And using off gas from land fills is becoming a major source of methane. But CO2 is still a byproduct. In addition, the current technology to deliver H2 to fueling stations uses a lot of diesel fuel. We are exploring higher and higher pressures to store which helps reduce delivery costs. Electrolysis is the most inefficient and capital intensive process to to get H2. Generating electricity to run electrolysis is a problem as solar is costly and results in E-waste, wind is good, but recycling the blades at the end of useful life is now a major issue. I think tidal wave generation using all proper materials to prevent corrosion is promising. Solar generation where sun is used to heat a salt that generates steam to run turbines is also promising. But this last method is most effective in the desert where there is lowest demand for power. Ideally, we all should lump into giant cities where we can minimize fuel usage to transport ourselves. But in the US, that will never happen. It is more common in Europe.

No matter what technology we use, it is nice to come up with something that will harm the planet less. I still run my 472cu in hemi. I use an O2 meter to try to optimize the tune. I am considering fuel injection. I think we all should do what we can. But we should make sure its the right direction that isn't going to cause a bigger issue later in time.

I am sure the Big Three are not doing market research on Moparts.

If they did, they'd find themselves woefully behind the global environment.

All cars pollute. EV's just move that pollution to the batteries both making them and disposing of them and power generation but it gives people the warm fuzzy feeling that they aren't polluting themselves because they aren't burning gas to drive them.

I drove my old neighbours Volt and even that was interesting to drive and seeing the technology and it's no Tesla. What keeps me out of electric cars is the cost of buying them, the thought of what kind of night mare that electronic stuff is going to be long term not to mention repair cost and that they haven't made any I like yet.

Then there's stuff like this

I'm no EV lover, but this is a nonsensical argument against them. Sulfuric acid is the largest produced chemical in the world and considered the most important as well, been commercially produced for 250 years, and it's been transported for 100 years. 2900 tons a day is less than a drop in the bucket.

26,000 gallons of diesel fuel, another drop in the bucket.

EV's have both positive and negative attributes. These are not very moving negative arguments.