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Need A12 guru help. #2863761
12/23/20 08:11 AM
12/23/20 08:11 AM
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Abilene, Texas
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I have an A12 Bee and my bud just bought one. We are comparing carb dates based upon a story of the seller. My Bee’s motor was built on March, 28 and the vin is 2626##. His car motor was built on June 12 and his vin is 3029##. My question is my carbs are dated 102 and 104 for outboards. My center was a 71 changed out long ago. I’m pretty sure the outboards are original to the car. I know the owner from 72 to date. His carbs are dated earlier than mine. His are supposed to be the original carbs and dated 093,092, and 087. Seller claims that the normal first in first out with parts was not followed on these A12 cars. He claims the opposite. This claim seems to follow our two cars, somewhat. I’ve got lots of oem 69.5 carbs I’ve bought over the years. I’ve got date codes ranging from 072 to 198. Anyone have more information to add?

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: fastmark] #2863943
12/23/20 03:23 PM
12/23/20 03:23 PM
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First in and first out would apply to most everything that was assembly line installed but the A12 cars were not completely assembly line finished from what I was told by Dick Maxwell who's personal project the A12's were. Dick said that it was no problem for Fleet Engineering and Product Planning to find openings or missing spots (due to many reasons) in the normal assembly line with the timeline "window" of first March 29, 1969 and then because of demand for more than 500 each A12 RR's and SB's another "window" of April 26m 1969. Sticking a 440 without the 3X2 carburetors into a '69 B-body was not a problem on the normal assembly line and neither was a 4.10 Dana or a 26" radiator or 11" brakes. The biggest issue was the carburetors, fiberglass lift off hood, the hood pins and brackets and a couple of smaller items like the high idle solenoid and plastic clip on the valve cover for the wire, and idle adjustment for that system, putting the special idle adjustment label in place and installing the A12 air filter tray and cover etc., The remaining A12 Lift-Off-Hood, carbs etc., where done in a special area at the end of the normal assembly line according to Dick Maxwell where those components were stored and pretty sure those items were not in a first in, first out normal production line format of storage. I would think that if the LOH had a production date those dates would also be all over the place along with anything else that was not possible to install on the assembly line with a GTX, Satellite, Cornett, R/T etc., There is also the story of finished production delays due to a delay or shortage of Edelbrock aluminum intakes from them along with some quality issues too that may have caused the dates to be somewhat out of sequence.

MikeR

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A12] #2864097
12/23/20 09:38 PM
12/23/20 09:38 PM
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Wisconsin
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There is limited data supporting the original date codes on the carbs. I believe the outboards on the 262xxx car are correct. I have data from a low mileage original A12 in this VIN range. We would have to compare the body in white (BIW) numbers to confirm.

The data you provide indicates installation of the carbs was not a first in, first out. This means as product was delivered it was placed in front of inventory already there. A last in, first out scenario best describes how it was used in the assembly process. The limited data we do have at the A12 forum indicates the higher VIN cars may have lower date coded carbs. The numbers from the 302xxx car are in line with other data points we have indicating a decline in date, not gain. With this said, more research and data points are needed to confirm.

Other components used in the A12 cars show this same pattern. "Last in first out." The small font 054 radiators are well documented. The higher the VIN (BIW), the lower the date code. There is a pinnacle date and then regression to the end of production. I suspect this is the same scenario with the carbs as there appears to be a pinnacle date for them.

This data is complied for the 1969 Lynch Road assembly plant. How the other plants did it is unknown, so do not generalize this across the spectrum.

I would like to get more accurate information from you if you wouldn't mind. I will send my contact info offline.

I hope this helps.

D


Seeking 1969 Lynch Road fender tags/Build Sheets/Window Stickers/VIN - Over 2300 so far thanks to you!!
2018 Demon Challenger PY4 A8 Black Hood
2017 Jeep Trail Hawk
2016 Hellcat Challenger PCP A8
1969.5 A12 Super Bee WM21 V1H F6 D21
1969 Coronet RT B5 D32 M46 N96
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A12] #2864099
12/23/20 09:40 PM
12/23/20 09:40 PM
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Abilene, Texas
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So, in theory, the A12’s could have almost any carb that predates the day it was shipped out?. And not necessarily even dated closely together? It seems the carbs and intakes I have bought over the years have had the outboards all closely dated but some of the centers are way off. Now the 70 440s and 340s I have are all pretty close. Do we know the dates the cars were actually made and does the vin number tell us anything about that date? I’m waiting for the dates from Dave Carsons car. His car and mine were unloaded from the transport the same day in 69 by a friend of mine.

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: fastmark] #2864103
12/23/20 09:54 PM
12/23/20 09:54 PM
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They do run in groups but I have seen large deviations (10 days +) from the outboards to the primary. The carb dates will precede the engine assembly date (EAD) not the shipping date. We can estimate the actual production date of your car based upon the BIW number. The VIN tells us nothing about the date of production for the A12 cars.

Dave C and I work closely together at the A12 Forum.

D


Seeking 1969 Lynch Road fender tags/Build Sheets/Window Stickers/VIN - Over 2300 so far thanks to you!!
2018 Demon Challenger PY4 A8 Black Hood
2017 Jeep Trail Hawk
2016 Hellcat Challenger PCP A8
1969.5 A12 Super Bee WM21 V1H F6 D21
1969 Coronet RT B5 D32 M46 N96
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: fastmark] #2864108
12/23/20 10:16 PM
12/23/20 10:16 PM
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Abilene, Texas
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Yes. I’ll contact you. I have never registered my car for some reason. It’s a back burner project car that just was retired from it’s short and limited racing career. It’s original drivetrain survived as well as the fender tag.

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: Big D A12] #2864182
12/24/20 04:58 AM
12/24/20 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Big D A12

They do run in groups but I have seen large deviations (10 days +) from the outboards to the primary. The carb dates will precede the engine assembly date (EAD) not the shipping date. We can estimate the actual production date of your car based upon the BIW number. The VIN tells us nothing about the date of production for the A12 cars.

Dave C and I work closely together at the A12 Forum.

D


Where and what is the BIW number?

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A727Tflite] #2864186
12/24/20 05:33 AM
12/24/20 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by Big D A12

They do run in groups but I have seen large deviations (10 days +) from the outboards to the primary. The carb dates will precede the engine assembly date (EAD) not the shipping date. We can estimate the actual production date of your car based upon the BIW number. The VIN tells us nothing about the date of production for the A12 cars.

Dave C and I work closely together at the A12 Forum.

D


Where and what is the BIW number?


Body-In-White number, top row, right on a Lynch Road fender tag

(95% of a Lynch Road fender tag is basically all info needed in BIW and paint)

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A12] #2864221
12/24/20 09:43 AM
12/24/20 09:43 AM
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So 01149 means Julian date code 114 which is April 24th ?

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A727Tflite] #2864320
12/24/20 02:05 PM
12/24/20 02:05 PM
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Las Vegas, NV
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top row "right" 6-digits - Body in White sequence number

01149 * 01 = GATE number & 149 = BASE number (the fixtures to build the Body in White)

moparts side-gates.jpg
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: 6bblgt] #2864420
12/24/20 05:18 PM
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Oh, my other right. Sorry.

274284

Last edited by Transman; 12/24/20 05:22 PM.
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A727Tflite] #2864430
12/24/20 05:51 PM
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We'll see if the A12 guys agree * BODY SEQ# 274284 built ~Thursday 5/15/69

6bbl auto?
do you know your K-frame date?

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: 6bblgt] #2864480
12/24/20 07:57 PM
12/24/20 07:57 PM
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I have a pic of the date stamp somewhere - too dark and cold to look at it tonight. If I don’t find the pic I’ll slide under it tomorrow.
Manual trans.

Original everything except the long block, manual sold a long time ago, have the whole clutch and bellhousing assembly, shifter,etc.

Is the BIW info on the broadcast sheet ?

Last edited by Transman; 12/24/20 11:39 PM.
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A727Tflite] #2864582
12/25/20 10:34 AM
12/25/20 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Transman
Is the BIW info on the broadcast sheet ?


No, only the fender tag, If you share your tag and broadcast sheet we can provide more insight.

Originally Posted by 6bblgt
We'll see if the A12 guys agree * BODY SEQ# 274284 built ~Thursday 5/15/69


I agree. K frame date should be around 1299 +.

D


Seeking 1969 Lynch Road fender tags/Build Sheets/Window Stickers/VIN - Over 2300 so far thanks to you!!
2018 Demon Challenger PY4 A8 Black Hood
2017 Jeep Trail Hawk
2016 Hellcat Challenger PCP A8
1969.5 A12 Super Bee WM21 V1H F6 D21
1969 Coronet RT B5 D32 M46 N96
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: Big D A12] #2864673
12/25/20 04:35 PM
12/25/20 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Big D A12
Originally Posted by Transman
Is the BIW info on the broadcast sheet ?


No, only the fender tag, If you share your tag and broadcast sheet we can provide more insight.

Originally Posted by 6bblgt
We'll see if the A12 guys agree * BODY SEQ# 274284 built ~Thursday 5/15/69


I agree. K frame date should be around 1299 +.

D


I need an email address to share the info. Won’t post here.

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A727Tflite] #2864729
12/25/20 06:56 PM
12/25/20 06:56 PM
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PM sent...


Seeking 1969 Lynch Road fender tags/Build Sheets/Window Stickers/VIN - Over 2300 so far thanks to you!!
2018 Demon Challenger PY4 A8 Black Hood
2017 Jeep Trail Hawk
2016 Hellcat Challenger PCP A8
1969.5 A12 Super Bee WM21 V1H F6 D21
1969 Coronet RT B5 D32 M46 N96
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: Big D A12] #2864892
12/26/20 01:22 PM
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While on the subject of A12 - does anyone have a copy of the Product Planning/Technical Services/Fleet Engineering document that shows all the unique delete and add items for the A12 build, prints for decal placement, hood pin placement, etc.?

Edit - just found out that the package of info I have is actually the 4 page Lynch Road Bulletin that isn’t posted on the A12 Registry PLUS all the info such as part number add/delete, prints, etc.

E99312B6-38AD-4867-8DFF-7A205020F229.jpeg
Last edited by Transman; 12/26/20 01:44 PM.
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A727Tflite] #2864997
12/26/20 05:51 PM
12/26/20 05:51 PM
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Interesting Transman,
When I took delivery of my A12 in 1969, one of the first thing I modded was
to continue the black over the cowl and under the grill, mine was white with a black vinyl
top. I thought I needed that to finish the look.

Funny that they were considering that too.

Thanks, Joe

Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: jlatessa] #2865004
12/26/20 06:09 PM
12/26/20 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jlatessa
Interesting Transman,
When I took delivery of my A12 in 1969, one of the first thing I modded was
to continue the black over the cowl and under the grill, mine was white with a black vinyl
top. I thought I needed that to finish the look.

Funny that they were considering that too.

Thanks, Joe



I've done a few photoshop's of the black cowl on a few A12's and still considering doing my car that way. Saw it a long time ago on point #25 on the below sheets:

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/instructions.html

69cars4_aaa.jpg
Re: Need A12 guru help. [Re: A12] #2865011
12/26/20 06:40 PM
12/26/20 06:40 PM
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Hey A12, where in Northern Ohio are you?
I bought mine in Willoughby at Halpert Chry-Ply.

My buddy sold a lot oh Hi-Po stuff from that dealer.
They even gave us a car every year to bracket race at Thompson.
We had it lettered for advertisement, did a few mods, cam, jetting,
timing etc., it was called "That Plymouth"

Lot of fun in those days on the street!!!

Joe

Last edited by jlatessa; 12/26/20 06:40 PM.
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