833 Synchro Rings
#2860328
12/15/20 03:15 PM
12/15/20 03:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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A friend (yes Greg, I have those) just pulled apart his 4-speed that wasn't shifting too well and found these brass synchro rings installed in the 2nd and 3rd position. They have the dog teeth machined off; 1st and 4th position are stock.
I've never seen anything like this, I assume it is some form of "slick shift" mod; anybody here seen this? He bought the trans and installed it without removing the side cover for inspection.
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: 4406bbl]
#2860668
12/16/20 11:10 AM
12/16/20 11:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,487 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
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God's Country Maryland
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That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2860779
12/16/20 02:17 PM
12/16/20 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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That was my thinking, they use the toothless ring as a brake to slow the gears at the shift but no synchronizing.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2861111
12/17/20 01:41 AM
12/17/20 01:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908 Nebraska
4406bbl
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
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That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear. For some cars with mechanical secondaries that works but 6bbl setups with vacuum pods like to be shifted with your foot flat on the floor. A block under the clutch pedal to limit clutch plate departure, those rings, and a 10w-30 and atf mix in the box would get you right down the street. Gear oil seemed to make it a little harder to do it, straight atf was best, because it is thin and the rings grab the gear better/faster.
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2861113
12/17/20 01:48 AM
12/17/20 01:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908 Nebraska
4406bbl
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Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
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That was my thinking, they use the toothless ring as a brake to slow the gears at the shift but no synchronizing. Well kinda, I guess with no teeth it could be called semi synchronized. The teeth just give it the last 1/8"or so of alignment/syncronization. When flat footing and shifting hard it goes right in, and has nice street manners as long as your teeth are sharp, the ring friction surface is fresh, and the oil is not too thick.
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: 4406bbl]
#2861683
12/18/20 12:04 PM
12/18/20 12:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,487 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
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God's Country Maryland
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That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear. For some cars with mechanical secondaries that works but 6bbl setups with vacuum pods like to be shifted with your foot flat on the floor. A block under the clutch pedal to limit clutch plate departure, those rings, and a 10w-30 and atf mix in the box would get you right down the street. Gear oil seemed to make it a little harder to do it, straight atf was best, because it is thin and the rings grab the gear better/faster. I'm sure you know the two end carbs on the six pack are closed by the two little rods attached to the center carb as soon as the center carb is closed. They are opened slowly by vacuum but closed instantly by the return spring when the throttle is released.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2861779
12/18/20 02:19 PM
12/18/20 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908 Nebraska
4406bbl
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
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That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear. For some cars with mechanical secondaries that works but 6bbl setups with vacuum pods like to be shifted with your foot flat on the floor. A block under the clutch pedal to limit clutch plate departure, those rings, and a 10w-30 and atf mix in the box would get you right down the street. Gear oil seemed to make it a little harder to do it, straight atf was best, because it is thin and the rings grab the gear better/faster. I'm sure you know the two end carbs on the six pack are closed by the two little rods attached to the center carb as soon as the center carb is closed. They are opened slowly by vacuum but closed instantly by the return spring when the throttle is released. Yes I know, that is why they do not respond well to blipping the throttle. The return spring starts the closing, but the air velocity and vacuum thru the carb is what actually closes a carb, that us why the blades should never open a full 90 degrees, bad sheet will happen without a barndoor spring.
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: 4406bbl]
#2861983
12/18/20 10:40 PM
12/18/20 10:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,487 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,487
God's Country Maryland
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That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear. For some cars with mechanical secondaries that works but 6bbl setups with vacuum pods like to be shifted with your foot flat on the floor. A block under the clutch pedal to limit clutch plate departure, those rings, and a 10w-30 and atf mix in the box would get you right down the street. Gear oil seemed to make it a little harder to do it, straight atf was best, because it is thin and the rings grab the gear better/faster. I'm sure you know the two end carbs on the six pack are closed by the two little rods attached to the center carb as soon as the center carb is closed. They are opened slowly by vacuum but closed instantly by the return spring when the throttle is released. Yes I know, that is why they do not respond well to blipping the throttle. The return spring starts the closing, but the air velocity and vacuum thru the carb is what actually closes a carb, that us why the blades should never open a full 90 degrees, bad sheet will happen without a barndoor spring. I hope you're joking with that statement. The throttle return spring closes the carb, not air velocity and vacuum. Air velocity and vacuum is what draws fuel through the boosters. When you let off the throttle the carb has to close immediately or you'll end up in an accident with the car in front of you.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2861988
12/18/20 11:12 PM
12/18/20 11:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,951 northwest USA
NANKET
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master
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northwest USA
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Godscountry 340 is correct. It is Vacuum opening and manual linkage closing. Any release of the pedal closed all 3 the same amount instantly. Any other way would be crashing the vehicle.
You can go out to the car with engine off and open and close carbs and see it for yourself.
Last edited by NANKET; 12/18/20 11:13 PM.
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: NANKET]
#2862017
12/19/20 12:48 AM
12/19/20 12:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908 Nebraska
4406bbl
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top fuel
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Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
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The vacuum/ air velocity is at play as the blades close, if you do not believe it drive 70 down the highway, stick your hand out the window flat, then turn it 90 degrees. Let me know what happens, same principle. The throttle shaft bore is offset like .030 from the throttle plate bore so there is always a slight pull to close it, and keep it from slamming wide open. A 6bbl with vac pods will never open or close instantly. If I start my 6bbl there is enough play in the linkage that you can slightly open the 2 end carbs, not move the center carb and spring, and magically it returns to idle, all while running, I could care less what It does when the engine is off. It has to be the vacuum acting on the .030 offset of the throttle blades that creates more force to close than open. I could be all wrong here.
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Re: 833 Synchro Rings
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2862070
12/19/20 10:26 AM
12/19/20 10:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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Rittman Ohio
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That was my thinking, they use the toothless ring as a brake to slow the gears at the shift but no synchronizing. Those were sold by Mr.Gasket back in the day and you are correct they were used top slow down the gear for easier shifting when the gears were "slicked-up". I used to have a set for a Muncie in a bubble pack distributed by Speed Industries from Medina Ohio but made by Mr.Gasket. Don't know why they put them in the transmission you are working on. That thing must have shifted like crap at any speed. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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