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833 Synchro Rings #2860328
12/15/20 03:15 PM
12/15/20 03:15 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline OP
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A friend (yes Greg, I have those) just pulled apart his 4-speed that wasn't shifting too well and found these brass synchro rings installed in the 2nd and 3rd position. They have the dog teeth machined off; 1st and 4th position are stock.

I've never seen anything like this, I assume it is some form of "slick shift" mod; anybody here seen this? He bought the trans and installed it without removing the side cover for inspection.

Synch Ring.jpgSynch Ring_2.jpg

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Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: John_Kunkel] #2860374
12/15/20 05:12 PM
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mopars4ever Offline
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I have seen some many years ago with every other tooth removed but none like that.

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: John_Kunkel] #2860415
12/15/20 06:29 PM
12/15/20 06:29 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Any idea what the thinking is there??


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Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: fast68plymouth] #2860448
12/15/20 07:32 PM
12/15/20 07:32 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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The old way of "slick shifting" a trans was to remove every second (or more) of the teeth on both the slider and the gear. But the syncro ring (minus teeth) was still necessary as a spacer. Maybe this was someone's way of doing it "half assed".

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: John_Kunkel] #2860468
12/15/20 08:42 PM
12/15/20 08:42 PM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
A friend (yes Greg, I have those)


up

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: Kern Dog] #2860480
12/15/20 09:01 PM
12/15/20 09:01 PM
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South San Francisco, Ca
70sixpkrt Offline
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I just rebuilt my 18 spline and I was using a “slick shift” 2nd gear with normal syncros. I’ve never seen syncros with no teeth.


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Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: mopars4ever] #2860503
12/15/20 09:53 PM
12/15/20 09:53 PM
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Omaha Ne
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Originally Posted by mopars4ever
I have seen some many years ago with every other tooth removed but none like that.


iagree shruggy

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: John_Kunkel] #2860554
12/16/20 12:29 AM
12/16/20 12:29 AM
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Nebraska
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4406bbl Offline
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Had several of those trannies thru here for rebuilds. They worked pretty good for foot flat on the floor, pull stick hard, touch the clutch for us poor guys that still wanted decent street manners. As long as the gear teeth were sharp it was a cheap way to do it, one less thing to get the slider by. We had a $50 tool set and $5 in our pocket so DC sliders and gears were out, and try doing a nice grind every other tooth out of a slider or gear in your backyard with basic tools. Even with the teeth missing it will get the next gear up to speed.

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: 4406bbl] #2860668
12/16/20 11:10 AM
12/16/20 11:10 AM
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God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340 Offline
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That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear.


I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #2860779
12/16/20 02:17 PM
12/16/20 02:17 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline OP
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That was my thinking, they use the toothless ring as a brake to slow the gears at the shift but no synchronizing.


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Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: John_Kunkel] #2860875
12/16/20 04:07 PM
12/16/20 04:07 PM
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Ohio
Dan Brewer Offline
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Ohio
We use a modified ring like that in the 2nd gear position on the Face plated or pro shifted boxes when keeping the 1st gear syncronized.


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Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #2861111
12/17/20 01:41 AM
12/17/20 01:41 AM
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Nebraska
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4406bbl Offline
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Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear.


For some cars with mechanical secondaries that works but 6bbl setups with vacuum pods like to be shifted with your foot flat on the floor. A block under the clutch pedal to limit clutch plate departure, those rings, and a 10w-30 and atf mix in the box would get you right down the street. Gear oil seemed to make it a little harder to do it, straight atf was best, because it is thin and the rings grab the gear better/faster.

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: John_Kunkel] #2861113
12/17/20 01:48 AM
12/17/20 01:48 AM
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Nebraska
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4406bbl Offline
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
That was my thinking, they use the toothless ring as a brake to slow the gears at the shift but no synchronizing.


Well kinda, I guess with no teeth it could be called semi synchronized. The teeth just give it the last 1/8"or so of alignment/syncronization. When flat footing and shifting hard it goes right in, and has nice street manners as long as your teeth are sharp, the ring friction surface is fresh, and the oil is not too thick.

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: 4406bbl] #2861683
12/18/20 12:04 PM
12/18/20 12:04 PM
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God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340 Offline
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Originally Posted by 4406bbl
Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear.


For some cars with mechanical secondaries that works but 6bbl setups with vacuum pods like to be shifted with your foot flat on the floor. A block under the clutch pedal to limit clutch plate departure, those rings, and a 10w-30 and atf mix in the box would get you right down the street. Gear oil seemed to make it a little harder to do it, straight atf was best, because it is thin and the rings grab the gear better/faster.



I'm sure you know the two end carbs on the six pack are closed by the two little rods attached to the center carb as soon as the center carb is closed. They are opened slowly by vacuum but closed instantly by the return spring when the throttle is released.


I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #2861779
12/18/20 02:19 PM
12/18/20 02:19 PM
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Nebraska
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4406bbl Offline
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Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
Originally Posted by 4406bbl
Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear.


For some cars with mechanical secondaries that works but 6bbl setups with vacuum pods like to be shifted with your foot flat on the floor. A block under the clutch pedal to limit clutch plate departure, those rings, and a 10w-30 and atf mix in the box would get you right down the street. Gear oil seemed to make it a little harder to do it, straight atf was best, because it is thin and the rings grab the gear better/faster.



I'm sure you know the two end carbs on the six pack are closed by the two little rods attached to the center carb as soon as the center carb is closed. They are opened slowly by vacuum but closed instantly by the return spring when the throttle is released.


Yes I know, that is why they do not respond well to blipping the throttle. The return spring starts the closing, but the air velocity and vacuum thru the carb is what actually closes a carb, that us why the blades should never open a full 90 degrees, bad sheet will happen without a barndoor spring.

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: 4406bbl] #2861983
12/18/20 10:40 PM
12/18/20 10:40 PM
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God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340 Offline
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Originally Posted by 4406bbl
Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
Originally Posted by 4406bbl
Originally Posted by GODSCOUNTRY340
That's for the guys that don't use the clutch during drag racing shifts, they just "blip" the throttle and bang the next gear.


For some cars with mechanical secondaries that works but 6bbl setups with vacuum pods like to be shifted with your foot flat on the floor. A block under the clutch pedal to limit clutch plate departure, those rings, and a 10w-30 and atf mix in the box would get you right down the street. Gear oil seemed to make it a little harder to do it, straight atf was best, because it is thin and the rings grab the gear better/faster.



I'm sure you know the two end carbs on the six pack are closed by the two little rods attached to the center carb as soon as the center carb is closed. They are opened slowly by vacuum but closed instantly by the return spring when the throttle is released.


Yes I know, that is why they do not respond well to blipping the throttle. The return spring starts the closing, but the air velocity and vacuum thru the carb is what actually closes a carb, that us why the blades should never open a full 90 degrees, bad sheet will happen without a barndoor spring.



I hope you're joking with that statement. The throttle return spring closes the carb, not air velocity and vacuum. Air velocity and vacuum is what draws fuel through the boosters. When you let off the throttle the carb has to close immediately or you'll end up in an accident with the car in front of you.


I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #2861988
12/18/20 11:12 PM
12/18/20 11:12 PM
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northwest USA
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NANKET Offline
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Godscountry 340 is correct. It is Vacuum opening and manual linkage closing. Any release of the pedal closed all 3 the same amount instantly.
Any other way would be crashing the vehicle.

You can go out to the car with engine off and open and close carbs and see it for yourself.

Last edited by NANKET; 12/18/20 11:13 PM.
Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: NANKET] #2862017
12/19/20 12:48 AM
12/19/20 12:48 AM
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Nebraska
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4406bbl Offline
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The vacuum/ air velocity is at play as the blades close, if you do not believe it drive 70 down the highway, stick your hand out the window flat, then turn it 90 degrees. Let me know what happens, same principle. The throttle shaft bore is offset like .030 from the throttle plate bore so there is always a slight pull to close it, and keep it from slamming wide open. A 6bbl with vac pods will never open or close instantly. If I start my 6bbl there is enough play in the linkage that you can slightly open the 2 end carbs, not move the center carb and spring, and magically it returns to idle, all while running, I could care less what It does when the engine is off. It has to be the vacuum acting on the .030 offset of the throttle blades that creates more force to close than open. I could be all wrong here.

Re: 833 Synchro Rings [Re: John_Kunkel] #2862070
12/19/20 10:26 AM
12/19/20 10:26 AM
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Rittman Ohio
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Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
That was my thinking, they use the toothless ring as a brake to slow the gears at the shift but no synchronizing.


Those were sold by Mr.Gasket back in the day and you are correct they were used top slow down the gear for easier shifting when the gears were "slicked-up". I used to have a set for a Muncie in a bubble pack distributed by Speed Industries from Medina Ohio but made by Mr.Gasket.
Don't know why they put them in the transmission you are working on. That thing must have shifted like crap at any speed.

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