I am certain someone out there can grind you a cam to fit YOUR needs. That is why i want to push for a custom cam in your case. Looking for 600 hp is going to require some decent rpm, 6500+. My thinking is, why not go with a solid roller with lobes designed for endurance, and the duration, lift and LSA all spec'd to YOUR combo? Shelf cams are meant to do OK across a large variety of combos and sizes and are more of a compromize than i personally would want to put into a build that is going to cost $8000+? For a few $$ more, get the best brain for your beast!
I am certain someone out there can grind you a cam to fit YOUR needs. That is why i want to push for a custom cam in your case. Looking for 600 hp is going to require some decent rpm, 6500+. My thinking is, why not go with a solid roller with lobes designed for endurance, and the duration, lift and LSA all spec'd to YOUR combo? Shelf cams are meant to do OK across a large variety of combos and sizes and are more of a compromize than i personally would want to put into a build that is going to cost $8000+? For a few $$ more, get the best brain for your beast!
I'm not ruling that out but bc this is going to be a street/grudge race engine I want to stay with the hydraulic roller but I am not ruling anything out.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2852137 11/27/2012:20 PM11/27/2012:20 PM
Most hyd rollers are done by 5800 good luck making 600 hp. I would think to get any real answers you need to provide more info. Heads comp ratio etc. Go on any reputable cam manufacturer web site. They have a form you can fill out and they will recommend you a cam. I'd put a solid ft or solid roller in and rev it up to 6500,7000
71 scamp 340 509 cam 456 gear,68 fury1 318 3spd on the tree,50 merc flathead 3x2 3spd w/overdrive
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2852171 11/27/2001:26 PM11/27/2001:26 PM
Yeah that is going to take a heck of an engine combo to make 600 hp from a SB Mopar with a hyd roller cam. I did a 427 inch SB a few years back with ported Edelbrock heads. We used a small hyd roller since it was a street driven road race car. The cam was 236@050 and it made 520 hp. That engine might have made 600 hp with a bigger solid roller but I don't think even the biggest hyd roller would have made 600 hp. Maybe it would've, we never bothered to test it.
These days there are better heads available than what we were using so if you have a really good cylinder head you might be able to get there. Good luck, I think it will take some time and money.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: AndyF]
#2852231 11/27/2003:44 PM11/27/2003:44 PM
Yeah that is going to take a heck of an engine combo to make 600 hp from a SB Mopar with a hyd roller cam. I did a 427 inch SB a few years back with ported Edelbrock heads. We used a small hyd roller since it was a street driven road race car. The cam was 236@050 and it made 520 hp. That engine might have made 600 hp with a bigger solid roller but I don't think even the biggest hyd roller would have made 600 hp. Maybe it would've, we never bothered to test it.
These days there are better heads available than what we were using so if you have a really good cylinder head you might be able to get there. Good luck, I think it will take some time and money.
I'm shooting for as close as I can get not because I am dead set on a 600hp bragging right, but because I figure that's what it will take to get me down into the 10's in an all steel '70 Duster . I plan on using the trick flow 190's and sticking with traditional LA valvetrain elements. If I have to go with a solid I may consider that too.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2852238 11/27/2003:54 PM11/27/2003:54 PM
Yeah that is going to take a heck of an engine combo to make 600 hp from a SB Mopar with a hyd roller cam. I did a 427 inch SB a few years back with ported Edelbrock heads. We used a small hyd roller since it was a street driven road race car. The cam was 236@050 and it made 520 hp. That engine might have made 600 hp with a bigger solid roller but I don't think even the biggest hyd roller would have made 600 hp. Maybe it would've, we never bothered to test it.
These days there are better heads available than what we were using so if you have a really good cylinder head you might be able to get there. Good luck, I think it will take some time and money.
I'm shooting for as close as I can get not because I am dead set on a 600hp bragging right, but because I figure that's what it will take to get me down into the 10's in an all steel '70 Duster . I plan on using the trick flow 190's and sticking with traditional LA valvetrain elements. If I have to go with a solid I may consider that too.
i would use a better head
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: INTMD8]
#2852247 11/27/2004:09 PM11/27/2004:09 PM
Can anyone suggest a manufacture, grind or stock number for a cam?
I am looking for a hydraulic roller with at least .240 @050
Thanks !
That's about 1.45 HP per cube. What Fuel and what Comp?
Qwkmopardan seems to be making a lot more than that with a solid ft and 13-1 comp with ported stockers from memory. I would look at going custom at that level.
Not exactly easy but not impossible by any means.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: hysteric]
#2852294 11/27/2006:32 PM11/27/2006:32 PM
My 416 has ported W2s and a 273@.050 and .704 solid roller. Its 10:1 and runs and races on 91 octane. Its been 10.61@125.1 @3630lbs just recently. According to Wallace it still falls short of 600HP.
I have fought the 60ft a little recently and I think it can go 10.40s if I get that back and get some better air. It has been 1.411 60ft in the past and my best recently has been 1.48 with some spin.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2852302 11/27/2007:05 PM11/27/2007:05 PM
I always question folks that want xxx hp, when clearly they don't have an actual performance goal for the car. And that seems to be the majority these days.
And, I have no answer to your question, but will offer the following to maybe help you back into the needed HP, and cam needs.
You're in Mississippi, elevation probably helps, but do you want to run 10.80s in August at 100° F and 100% humidity, or is a 10. 95 good enough in December?
Street car? How good is the suspension and what is a realistic 60ft time?
What will be the actual race weight?
Answers to these questions could mean the difference between needing 525 HP, and 600 HP., IMO. Just something to think about.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: B3422W5]
#2852303 11/27/2007:19 PM11/27/2007:19 PM
Yeah that is going to take a heck of an engine combo to make 600 hp from a SB Mopar with a hyd roller cam. I did a 427 inch SB a few years back with ported Edelbrock heads. We used a small hyd roller since it was a street driven road race car. The cam was 236@050 and it made 520 hp. That engine might have made 600 hp with a bigger solid roller but I don't think even the biggest hyd roller would have made 600 hp. Maybe it would've, we never bothered to test it.
These days there are better heads available than what we were using so if you have a really good cylinder head you might be able to get there. Good luck, I think it will take some time and money.
I'm shooting for as close as I can get not because I am dead set on a 600hp bragging right, but because I figure that's what it will take to get me down into the 10's in an all steel '70 Duster . I plan on using the trick flow 190's and sticking with traditional LA valvetrain elements. If I have to go with a solid I may consider that too.
Wont take anywhere remotely close to 600 horse to get a 70 Duster in the 10’s. Any ported eddie head or trick flow head with a good solid cam, convertor, etc, will get into the 10’s without breaking a sweat on a stroker shortblock. I wouldnt even consider a hydraulic roller cam for such a combo. Would be my last choice.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2852329 11/27/2008:56 PM11/27/2008:56 PM
I am certain someone out there can grind you a cam to fit YOUR needs. That is why i want to push for a custom cam in your case. Looking for 600 hp is going to require some decent rpm, 6500+. My thinking is, why not go with a solid roller with lobes designed for endurance, and the duration, lift and LSA all spec'd to YOUR combo? Shelf cams are meant to do OK across a large variety of combos and sizes and are more of a compromize than i personally would want to put into a build that is going to cost $8000+? For a few $$ more, get the best brain for your beast!
I'm not ruling that out but bc this is going to be a street/grudge race engine I want to stay with the hydraulic roller but I am not ruling anything out.
Another post for your engine would really help you pick out a decent combo to meet your goals. Example; "Help me build a 600 hp stroker smallblock" then list what you have for parts now, what manners you want, budget and what you are willing to compromize on. Guys want to help, so post it👍
I always question folks that want xxx hp, when clearly they don't have an actual performance goal for the car. And that seems to be the majority these days.
And, I have no answer to your question, but will offer the following to maybe help you back into the needed HP, and cam needs.
You're in Mississippi, elevation probably helps, but do you want to run 10.80s in August at 100° F and 100% humidity, or is a 10. 95 good enough in December?
Street car? How good is the suspension and what is a realistic 60ft time?
What will be the actual race weight?
Answers to these questions could mean the difference between needing 525 HP, and 600 HP., IMO. Just something to think about.
I agree with you. I just known if I’m not in the mid 10’s I might as well stay home. At my age I am not interested In grudge racing in the summer. The car is full metal and glass, will have frame connectors, upgrade leaf springs and moved inward mini tubs and 10.5 tire, adjustable rear shocks /6 torsion bars,
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: gregsdart]
#2852335 11/27/2009:07 PM11/27/2009:07 PM
I am certain someone out there can grind you a cam to fit YOUR needs. That is why i want to push for a custom cam in your case. Looking for 600 hp is going to require some decent rpm, 6500+. My thinking is, why not go with a solid roller with lobes designed for endurance, and the duration, lift and LSA all spec'd to YOUR combo? Shelf cams are meant to do OK across a large variety of combos and sizes and are more of a compromize than i personally would want to put into a build that is going to cost $8000+? For a few $$ more, get the best brain for your beast!
I'm not ruling that out but bc this is going to be a street/grudge race engine I want to stay with the hydraulic roller but I am not ruling anything out.
Another post for your engine would really help you pick out a decent combo to meet your goals. Example; "Help me build a 600 hp stroker smallblock" then list what you have for parts now, what manners you want, budget and what you are willing to compromize on. Guys want to help, so post it👍
You’re right. Maybe I should start over. I’m hoping I don’t ha r to spend more than $12,000
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2852344 11/27/2009:22 PM11/27/2009:22 PM
When we built Mopar Billy's little 408 in his race car, it was 11:1, solid FT cam, and Airwolf heads. That made just over 600HP on our dyno. Runs well into the 10's with a NOS cam to boot.
Brian Hafliger
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2852386 11/27/2010:42 PM11/27/2010:42 PM
I don't think I'd ever put a hydraulic roller in anything I was going to run hard. At least a flat solid or a solid roller. My 408 was 10.8-1 with ported Edelbrocks and a 260/264 flat solid. It ran 6.57 @ 104 and change in a 3260# Dart on pump 93.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: justinp61]
#2852396 11/27/2011:23 PM11/27/2011:23 PM
I'm not sure which notion I would abandon first............the " shelf cam " , or " Hydraulic roller ". Probably in that order. It is so easy to have a cam spec'ed for your combination these days and several cam companies are very good at it. I really like Bullet...........they have done a solid roller and hyd. flat tappet for me and I am happy with both. Two totally different motors , but they listened to my ideas and added theirs. They aren't just selling parts , and they have the experience to recommend what will work. I have no experience with Hyd. rollers , but for serious performance it would not be my first choice.
Last edited by tubtar; 12/02/2004:12 PM.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: hysteric]
#2852436 11/28/2003:45 AM11/28/2003:45 AM
Can anyone suggest a manufacture, grind or stock number for a cam?
I am looking for a hydraulic roller with at least .240 @050
Thanks !
That's about 1.45 HP per cube. What Fuel and what Comp?
Qwkmopardan seems to be making a lot more than that with a solid ft and 13-1 comp with ported stockers from memory. I would look at going custom at that level.
Not exactly easy but not impossible by any means.
Yes, Dan Smith aka Qwkmopardan on here has no problem building a 420 inch small blocks using solid flat tappet cams and with iron heads that run around 10.0's in several cars for himself and others.
I know that he like to run Racer Brown cams in the engines he builds.
He built the 451 that's in our 69 Dart GTS (383 auto car).
He mostly just races for the $$$ in Pro and Super Pro but several years ago he won the Byron Wheel stand Competition..
Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2854046 12/01/2010:06 PM12/01/2010:06 PM
Here is an interesting build. LS7 Chevy, 440 inches, cam is hyd roller with 244/257 duration and it makes 700 hp at 7000 rpm. I think the difference is the heads. The LS7 heads are better than any Mopar head except maybe something exotic like a W8. I'm still surprised that this LS7 was able to make 700 hp at 7000 rpm with only 244/257 duration. I guess we have to assume that the article is correct but I think it would require at least 10 degrees more duration to pull to 7000 rpm if not more.
out of curiosity for my own project I was wondering what the E/I flow balance was. 250/418 is roughly 60%...i guess i won't stress about it an exh port that doesn't flow amazing...
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: AndyF]
#2854067 12/01/2010:48 PM12/01/2010:48 PM
Here is an interesting build. LS7 Chevy, 440 inches, cam is hyd roller with 244/257 duration and it makes 700 hp at 7000 rpm. I think the difference is the heads. The LS7 heads are better than any Mopar head except maybe something exotic like a W8. I'm still surprised that this LS7 was able to make 700 hp at 7000 rpm with only 244/257 duration. I guess we have to assume that the article is correct but I think it would require at least 10 degrees more duration to pull to 7000 rpm if not more.
I am not at all surprised by this, it's not hamstrung by an almost 60 year old design. Most Pro Stock engines are running around 275 @ 0.050", even back when they weren't RPM limited.
You could probably do something similar with a Gen III Hemi
Alan Jones
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: AndyF]
#2854090 12/01/2011:37 PM12/01/2011:37 PM
Here is an interesting build. LS7 Chevy, 440 inches, cam is hyd roller with 244/257 duration and it makes 700 hp at 7000 rpm. I think the difference is the heads. The LS7 heads are better than any Mopar head except maybe something exotic like a W8. I'm still surprised that this LS7 was able to make 700 hp at 7000 rpm with only 244/257 duration. I guess we have to assume that the article is correct but I think it would require at least 10 degrees more duration to pull to 7000 rpm if not more.
Here is an interesting build. LS7 Chevy, 440 inches, cam is hyd roller with 244/257 duration and it makes 700 hp at 7000 rpm. I think the difference is the heads. The LS7 heads are better than any Mopar head except maybe something exotic like a W8. I'm still surprised that this LS7 was able to make 700 hp at 7000 rpm with only 244/257 duration. I guess we have to assume that the article is correct but I think it would require at least 10 degrees more duration to pull to 7000 rpm if not more.
You should read about the motor my engine builder won a competition with. Stock stroke, 11.66 compression 360. Made 773. Then 737 with mufflers on a 90 degree day at the competition to win it. Yep, heads matter.
High 10s is really easy and doesn’t take 600. I would aim for 550. I had a simple combo that ran 11.00@122. I drove it daily and it wasn’t a race car. Here was my combo. It was all steel nothing done to lighten it. Power steering and power brakes. I never optimized it. Only made a few passes. 408 stroker 10.7 compression Indybrock heads Victor intake 750hp Holley 1 5:8 tti headers and full exhaust Comp xe 286 street solid roller 248@050 .577 lift 1.5 rockers Tci street fighter converter. Super tight 2600 stall 4.10 gear and 28” slick Same combo ran 11.24@118.78 with mild ported edelbrock rpm.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: lostdog]
#2854170 12/02/2009:17 AM12/02/2009:17 AM
I would not recommend a hydro cam for what you want, but I can throw you a bone on a solid FT cam....My 408 uses an off the shelf Hughes solid flat tappet (HUG STL6468AS), 264/268 @0.05. This along with ported Edelbrocks, Victor intake, 13:1 compression, and dinky 750 e85 carb, 727 trans with 8" converter, 4.10 gears..... runs 10.1x @ about 131mph in my 3250# Barracuda (probably close to 600hp, but I never dynoed it). It will go a little faster when I get the kinks worked out on my bigger e85 carb, probably 10.0x (hopefully this spring).
67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: viperblue72]
#2854174 12/02/2009:21 AM12/02/2009:21 AM
I had a conversation with a guy yesterday who has been playing around with a 416 on his engine dyno. Ootb TF heads, Comp XR286R cam, Victor intake, the bigger TTi headers.
605hp so far.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2854248 12/02/2011:38 AM12/02/2011:38 AM
I had a conversation with a guy yesterday who has been playing around with a 416 on his engine dyno. Ootb TF heads, Comp XR286R cam, Victor intake, the bigger TTi headers.
605hp so far.
Do you know the compression?
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2854284 12/02/2012:55 PM12/02/2012:55 PM
I don’t think I asked, but I’m pretty sure they’re running it on pump gas.
They were baselining the motor with the std Victor intake and a shop carb, and are swapping to an Edelbrock EFI system. I believe it’s going on a street car.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2854301 12/02/2001:07 PM12/02/2001:07 PM
I had a conversation with a guy yesterday who has been playing around with a 416 on his engine dyno. Ootb TF heads, Comp XR286R cam, Victor intake, the bigger TTi headers.
605hp so far.
I can see that happening. 700 hp with a smaller cam from the LS7 is a bit eye opening.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2854307 12/02/2001:11 PM12/02/2001:11 PM
I don’t think I asked, but I’m pretty sure they’re running it on pump gas.
They were baselining the motor with the std Victor intake and a shop carb, and are swapping to an Edelbrock EFI system. I believe it’s going on a street car.
Be curious to see that motor go down the track. Sounds extremely optimistic to me, especially based on other trick flow stuff that has went down the track i know about. Thats pretty much saying it would make 630-640 with compression. That’s healthy W5 type power.
Last edited by B3422W5; 12/02/2001:16 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: B3422W5]
#2854311 12/02/2001:16 PM12/02/2001:16 PM
My W5 motor made a “ true” 640, based on 135 mph@3350. 13.3 compression, 273@50 roller, “ big” headers, victor, etc, etc. If this motor is around 10 to 1 with that street roller i would suspect 540 -550 true Moroso power. That would be my guess as optimal
Last edited by B3422W5; 12/02/2001:21 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: B3422W5]
#2854326 12/02/2001:31 PM12/02/2001:31 PM
Well, as someone with 30 years of dyno testing to call upon, I’m confident that if I built a 10.5:1 416 with TF heads, that cam, intake and headers....... it would easily exceed 550hp.
People like to quote the Moroso chart when it fits their narrative...... until you mention “Stock” or “Super Stock”....... then for some reason it doesn’t apply.
If we say the Moroso Chart is more accurate and reliable than a modern dyno, then I guess my friends 400 Pontiac, with its unported heads, .420 lift cam, stock intake and Q-jet makes around 545hp........ even if it makes nowhere near that on the dyno.
Just throw away the dyno...... a $10 Moroso slide rule is all you need for the most accurate power figures.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2854333 12/02/2001:38 PM12/02/2001:38 PM
Well, as someone with 30 years of dyno testing to call upon, I’m confident that if I built a 10.5:1 416 with TF heads, that cam, intake and headers....... it would easily exceed 550hp.
People like to quote the Moroso chart when it fits their narrative...... until you mention “Stock” or “Super Stock”....... then for some reason it doesn’t apply.
If we say the Moroso Chart is more accurate and reliable than a modern dyno, then I guess my friends 400 Pontiac, with its unported heads, .420 lift cam, stock intake and Q-jet makes around 545hp........ even if it makes nowhere near that on the dyno.
narrative, really? Way back when everybody was posting ET, Weight and Mph and Ryan and several other guys called out the horsepower i remember thinking... man, i have a pooch, 640... ouch... So no, its not a narrative, just a “ standard” lots of guys on here have used for years. And i know you know that. That was kinda uncalled for. From what i have actually seen at the track, well done eddies seem to run eerily the same as Trick flows. And i cant remember( if ever) hearing of a 600+ horsepower pump gas Eddie motor. But.... i dont race dyno’s either
Last edited by B3422W5; 12/02/2001:40 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: 11secdart]
#2854342 12/02/2001:48 PM12/02/2001:48 PM
My 408 has been 10.70 in my 3150 lb. Dart.. 539 hp. 502 tq. on dyno .. 408.. 4 inch stroke R3 Block, 9 1/2 to 1 compression for pump gas, out of box Indy 360-1 heads and intake, 600 lift mechanical cam. 1 7/8 inch headers, AED prepped 750 HP carb. easy low 10s / high 9s with more compression, roller cam and a little head work. I am very impressed with the torque from the 4 inch stroke, I went from a 4.88 gear to a 4.10 and my 60 fts stayed the same. I went 10.40 with a 5.9 Magnum block, 30 over , 590 lift cam, 11 1/2 to 1 compression , W2 heads, Victor W2 intake, 750HP carb, 1 7/8 headers 549 hp. 450 tq. on dyno. I am redoing it now for lower compression/ pump gas expecting between 500-520 hp. Will be a backup motor still expecting high 10s. Both combos ran thru mufflers and with a 904 and 4900 Stall Ultimate prepped 8 inch converter , car is throttle stopped down to run 11.50s.
Thread hijack!!!...Nice car...always liked it! Back to the orig post...based on what you have for parts, I'd go get a junkyard Eagle 5.7L and retrofit as you like to reach your goals. Go visit the gen3 Forum and digest some of that IMO.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: B3422W5]
#2854343 12/02/2001:49 PM12/02/2001:49 PM
The car picked up 5 tenths and 11 mph from the converter swap.
At the performance level of the car in that post, that 11mph represents about 150hp on the Moroso Chart.
I wonder how much extra hp the motor made with the new converter.
You think it seems reasonable that a 416 with TF heads, roller cam, nice headers, good intake, nice carb would make the same power(550-ish)as a 412” Pontiac with stock heads, intake, carb, and a .420” cam?
Interestingly....... you don’t seem to have any problem with the vailidity of these dyno numbers....... yet I don’t think that motor has been on the track yet:
Quote
You should read about the motor my engine builder won a competition with. Stock stroke, 11.66 compression 360. Made 773. Then 737 with mufflers on a 90 degree day at the competition to win it. Yep, heads matter.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2854361 12/02/2002:13 PM12/02/2002:13 PM
The car picked up 5 tenths and 11 mph from the converter swap.
At the performance level of the car in that post, that 11mph represents about 150hp on the Moroso Chart.
I wonder how much extra hp the motor made with the new converter.
You think it seems reasonable that a 416 with TF heads, roller cam, nice headers, good intake, nice carb would make the same power(550-ish)as a 412” Pontiac with stock heads, intake, carb, and a .420” cam?
Interestingly....... you don’t seem to have any problem with the vailidity of these dyno numbers....... yet I don’t think that motor has been on the track yet:
Quote
You should read about the motor my engine builder won a competition with. Stock stroke, 11.66 compression 360. Made 773. Then 737 with mufflers on a 90 degree day at the competition to win it. Yep, heads matter.
He is actually putting it in his Coronet wagon over the winter to race it next year. That motor was on a dyno he uses, A dyno at BES, and the dyno at the competition. Who knows what it will run, not a combination anybody has used before. That motor was built specifically to fit a competition parameter, not to make the most power possible out of. Otherwise he would have used more cam and compression, and cubes. But stroker smallblocks with factory replacement heads, tons around to compare to. Yiu should come to a Mopar race event some times, you will see tons of them, and see what they actually run
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: B3422W5]
#2854367 12/02/2002:23 PM12/02/2002:23 PM
I’ve dynoed piles of motors that went into cars that go to the track.
I know first hand that some people have cars that just don’t work very well, for whatever reason. That doesn’t mean the dyno is lying. The motors that I’ve tested that run right on the number, and the ones that have beat the Moroso Chart........ and the ones that don’t even come close........ are all being tested on the same dyno.
There are waaaay less variables to contend with in the dyno room, vs the endless myriad of variables between different cars, tracks, weather...... not to mention the owners/drivers skill in maintaining, tuning, and driving the car...... then throw into the mix whether or not the overall “combo” is well matched.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2854376 12/02/2002:34 PM12/02/2002:34 PM
I’ve dynoed piles of motors that went into cars that go to the track.
I know first hand that some people have cars that just don’t work very well, for whatever reason. That doesn’t mean the dyno is lying. The motors that I’ve tested that run right on the number, and the ones that have beat the Moroso Chart........ and the ones that don’t even come close........ are all being tested on the same dyno.
There are waaaay less variables to contend with in the dyno room, vs the endless myriad of variables between different cars, tracks, weather...... not to mention the owners/drivers skill in maintaining, tuning, and driving the car...... then throw into the mix whether or not the overall “combo” is well matched.
Agree with you. And i have seen “ 800 horse” motors that run 10.50’s in cars with nothing wrong with them Other than the dyno numbers they were given My point is a 600+ horse pump gas stroker with replacement heads in a typical bracket(3000-3100) pound A body is a 9 sec car. I just don't ever see such stuff, or at least ultra rarely. The reason i brought up the dyno competition motor was because Andy posted about a 700 horse Chevy motor, if you go back and reread the thread. Just to show Mopar stuff is capable as well
Last edited by B3422W5; 12/02/2002:34 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: B3422W5]
#2854452 12/02/2005:41 PM12/02/2005:41 PM
I don’t think I asked, but I’m pretty sure they’re running it on pump gas.
They were baselining the motor with the std Victor intake and a shop carb, and are swapping to an Edelbrock EFI system. I believe it’s going on a street car.
Be curious to see that motor go down the track. Sounds extremely optimistic to me, especially based on other trick flow stuff that has went down the track i know about. Thats pretty much saying it would make 630-640 with compression. That’s healthy W5 type power.
Track times don't mean much, especially for street cars or novice bracket racers. Lots of street cars have 10 second power but 12 second tires. I don't have any trouble accepting that TF heads on a 400 inch SB Mopar can make 600 hp. Just because nobody at your track runs 9's with a TF headed SB doesn't mean it isn't possible.
The 700 hp LS7 with a small cam is a different animal. That number isn't what I'd expect from that cam.
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: AndyF]
#2854499 12/02/2006:57 PM12/02/2006:57 PM
I don’t think I asked, but I’m pretty sure they’re running it on pump gas.
They were baselining the motor with the std Victor intake and a shop carb, and are swapping to an Edelbrock EFI system. I believe it’s going on a street car.
Be curious to see that motor go down the track. Sounds extremely optimistic to me, especially based on other trick flow stuff that has went down the track i know about. Thats pretty much saying it would make 630-640 with compression. That’s healthy W5 type power.
Track times don't mean much, especially for street cars or novice bracket racers. Lots of street cars have 10 second power but 12 second tires. I don't have any trouble accepting that TF heads on a 400 inch SB Mopar can make 600 hp. Just because nobody at your track runs 9's with a TF headed SB doesn't mean it isn't possible.
The 700 hp LS7 with a small cam is a different animal. That number isn't what I'd expect from that cam.
I didnt say it wasn't possible. But its very unlikely with a very mild street roller and low compression. Not talking street cars or “ novice” bracket cars. To clarify, a dyno can say anything. Lets just say i wouldn't believe such numbers until i saw some MPH numbers at the track, and leave it at that. Such numbers i have yet to see at the track.
Last edited by B3422W5; 12/02/2007:02 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: B3422W5]
#2854507 12/02/2007:14 PM12/02/2007:14 PM
this is just a 360 with TF190's and 286R@10.5:1 if you haven't seen this before.........
Saw that. So if you kept the compression the same, the cam and heads the same, how much extra horsepower would it make with more stroke.
As an example, i am making a similar change myself right now Had a 360 with basically stock eddie heads. Ran fine for what it was 10 to 1 compression. 118 and change at 3300 My engine guy told me my 418, with having him port the heads, raise compression to 12.5 to 1, otherwise no changes other than go to single plane over air gap( excellerator) i could see maybe 80 horse gain. Same cam, etc, etc. but tons more torque That is making the heads much better, and 2.5 points in compression( huge difference, guessing nearly 1/2 of that gain) to gain 80 horse. What would i gain with heads the same and compression the same?
Last edited by B3422W5; 12/02/2008:35 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: rb446]
#2854582 12/02/2010:02 PM12/02/2010:02 PM
Fly fish...... 904>727. Simple mopar math . Great sounding combo until we got to that dump truck trans
lol
Yeah, I realized that I slowed my car down about 20 years ago...problem is, I would have to change trans, converter, and drive shaft to convert back to a 904....all that to save a tenth or 2 in the 1/4....not going to happen anytime soon. I'll be happy "only" running 10 flat with my dump truck trans, lol.
67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....
Re: 600hp target 408 / 416 stroker off the shelf cam
[Re: B3422W5]
#2854829 12/03/2003:18 PM12/03/2003:18 PM
. Great sounding combo until we got to that dump truck trans 
