Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
HP Loss due to reducing compression. #2835599
10/21/20 12:47 PM
10/21/20 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Alberta, Canada
451Guy Offline OP
mopar
451Guy  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Alberta, Canada
I realize that this is a bit of a loaded question but from your experience how much power will a motor lose from reducing the compression given that you have a suitable cam in both engines, given every thing else in the engine is the same.

Compression from 13.5 to one to 10.5 or 11.00 to one Race gas to premium pump gas..

Thanks


Thanx 451 Guy

512 cu in 71 Demon Super Street Car - NO LONGER - Broke Crank
Best ET 9.57 @ 139.96

451 cu in Pump Gas - 71 Demon Super Street Car
Best ET 9.99 @ 136.80

512 cu in 69 Charger R/T
Best ET 11.39 @ 118.11

Re: HP Loss due to reducing compression. [Re: 451Guy] #2835611
10/21/20 01:15 PM
10/21/20 01:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451 Offline
master
TonyS451  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
.I'm guessing it will depend upon the other matched components. ie a cam that works well w 13.5-1 may not work well w 10-1 . Contemplating the same type change, so Im curious to hear what the experts have to say as well.


2 kids and a dog
Re: HP Loss due to reducing compression. [Re: 451Guy] #2835621
10/21/20 01:24 PM
10/21/20 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,994
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,994
Oregon
Could lose up to 10% but not necessarily. Most engines are not optimized so if you had a "normal" bracket engine at 13.5 and then you switched to a pro built pump gas combo you might not lose any power at all. All depends on the details. I've run pump gas engines on the dyno that made more power than high compression bracket engines. That actually happens on a regular basis, especially if the bracket guy picked his own cam and/or ported his own heads.

Re: HP Loss due to reducing compression. [Re: AndyF] #2835639
10/21/20 01:44 PM
10/21/20 01:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
Quote
given every thing else in the engine is the same.


The way to look at it is....... does the combo still “make sense” with the CR lowered 3 points?

Are the heads, intake, carb, headers still appropriately sized for the engine displacement at 10.5:1?

In other words, are they still the optimal pieces for the combo at the new CR?

If the answer is “no”, then expect to take a bigger hit in power than what just the loss of CR, and reduction in cam duration would yield.

The other side of the argument is...... how much can you afford to lose and still have the combo be “good enough”....... and does that seem like a reasonable outcome from the CR loss?

I feel as though high compression is a fairly effective way to help crutch up a less that optimum combo.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: HP Loss due to reducing compression. [Re: 451Guy] #2835735
10/21/20 05:24 PM
10/21/20 05:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,707
Portage,michigan
B
B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here
B3422W5  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,707
Portage,michigan
Originally Posted by 451Guy
I realize that this is a bit of a loaded question but from your experience how much power will a motor lose from reducing the compression given that you have a suitable cam in both engines, given every thing else in the engine is the same.

Compression from 13.5 to one to 10.5 or 11.00 to one Race gas to premium pump gas..

Thanks



I have read in many different places that a point in compression is 2-3%. Once you get to a high compression, its a case of diminishing returns.
You said you were going to swap to a cam more suitable to the new compression.
My guess 30-40 horsepower just from compression.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: HP Loss due to reducing compression. [Re: B3422W5] #2835767
10/21/20 06:38 PM
10/21/20 06:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,115
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,115
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by B3422W5
Originally Posted by 451Guy
I realize that this is a bit of a loaded question but from your experience how much power will a motor lose from reducing the compression given that you have a suitable cam in both engines, given every thing else in the engine is the same.

Compression from 13.5 to one to 10.5 or 11.00 to one Race gas to premium pump gas..

Thanks


I have read in many different places that a point in compression is 2-3%. Once you get to a high compression, its a case of diminishing returns.
You said you were going to swap to a cam more suitable to the new compression.
My guess 30-40 horsepower just from compression.
iagree I've seen testing done on a SB Mopar bracket motor that lost 30 HP by reducing the compression ratio from 12.5 to 10.6 or so so they could run pump swill with no other changes(timing or jetting)that made a 560 HP motor make 530 HP shruggy
They should have optimized the timing, jetting and spark plug heat range with the lower compression ratio on the engine dyno instead of doing it later at the track twocents Those changes made it run faster than it had before, that racer is now a big advocate of low compression race motors confused shruggy

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/21/20 06:39 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: HP Loss due to reducing compression. [Re: 451Guy] #2835813
10/21/20 07:56 PM
10/21/20 07:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack Offline
Lil Herman
moparpollack  Offline
Lil Herman

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
Is a 200 horsepower shot of nitrous oxide an option to make up for the reduced compression? shruggy


56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
Re: HP Loss due to reducing compression. [Re: moparpollack] #2835899
10/21/20 11:03 PM
10/21/20 11:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
E
ek3 Offline
top fuel
ek3  Offline
top fuel
E

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
seems to me that 2 things are really important.. volumetric efficiency and burn rate. hi compression requires better fuel to control burn rate..ve changes with compression if you take the piston location into the deal. - a bump in compression will always mean some increase in power no matter what short of perfect ve. the overall goal is to improve volumetric efficiency . rite ?? i have seen a lot of 9 to 1 engines in class rule racing make big power. all things considered , an engine with 13 to 1 that has been worked out like the 9 to 1 will make even more power.... i am looking at the expansion ratio which gives a longer time to apply power during the power stroke as a reason for this.

Last edited by ek3; 10/21/20 11:08 PM.
Re: HP Loss due to reducing compression. [Re: ek3] #2836018
10/22/20 10:52 AM
10/22/20 10:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Alberta, Canada
451Guy Offline OP
mopar
451Guy  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Alberta, Canada
Thank you for the replys.

My intension is to purchase a cam that Dwayne suggests for this combo.
I also have the option of surfacing the heads to get a little more compression. It will have a flat top piston in it regardless. The max compression I am looking for is mid to high 11.

I guess I have to get it together and see how it works.


Thanx 451 Guy

512 cu in 71 Demon Super Street Car - NO LONGER - Broke Crank
Best ET 9.57 @ 139.96

451 cu in Pump Gas - 71 Demon Super Street Car
Best ET 9.99 @ 136.80

512 cu in 69 Charger R/T
Best ET 11.39 @ 118.11







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1