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What Size DIY Headers?? #2834827
10/19/20 11:29 PM
10/19/20 11:29 PM
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mopowers Offline OP
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I'm getting ready to build a set of headers for my big block 66 Dart. Motor will end up at either 470, or 512ci (shooting for ~600hp on pump gas, but haven't decided on stroke yet). This will be the first set of headers I've ever built. Is there a rule of thumb for optimal primary length and tube size?

Also, where do you guys buy tubing, flanges, and other header parts? Or are there kits you recommend? I'd rather stick to mild steel.

Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: mopowers] #2834865
10/20/20 06:15 AM
10/20/20 06:15 AM
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Hedman makes great weld up kits for Mopars with tube chassis or fenderwell type headers.Plenty of different universal bends available there too. I opted to buy, in addition, a set of flanges with 2 in.long stub tubes already welded to try to avoid the warpage issue and pipe/port contouring on my first try. That really paid off well.I only built my own headers because I wanted 2 1/8" primary tubes that were shorter in length than the Hooker fenderwell style I originally had.For all the work involved vs. the return in performance, you might just look at Hooker and Hedmans fenderwell shelf offerings unless you just desire the project of building your own set. Their sizes should be right for a 600hp engine. Bill

Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: mopowers] #2834878
10/20/20 07:47 AM
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Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: mopowers] #2834933
10/20/20 10:13 AM
10/20/20 10:13 AM
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I got all my pipe from summit,3/8" flange,6 j bends and maybe 4 u bends.I formed the pipe to the flange with a bench vise so ya mine are diy headers but i had someone do the welding after tacking all the pieces.No back purging while welding.I used 16g pipe.[fender exit]

Last edited by Clanton; 10/20/20 10:31 AM.

GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: Clanton] #2834981
10/20/20 11:48 AM
10/20/20 11:48 AM
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Try Stahl ............. they might have something left over for a kit.
I'm not sure who took the business over , but I am under the impression that there was a good bit of inventory left over and someone is still making headers there.
I built the headers for my '65 Dart with a W-9 headed small block using a Stahl kit , SPD flanges and no small amount of head scratching and creative use of the English language.
There isn't a ton of room , and it wasn't particularly cheap either.
I would not be afraid to farm the job out if I had to do it again , and especially if I still had factory inner fenders and shock towers.
Stahl headers


Last edited by tubtar; 10/20/20 12:02 PM.
Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: tubtar] #2835363
10/20/20 11:26 PM
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Thanks for the ideas guys. As far as length goes, do you guys simply put the collector where you want it and connect the dots netting whatever length it takes (obviously within reason).

Are 2" primaries adequate for 600hp?

Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: mopowers] #2835366
10/20/20 11:35 PM
10/20/20 11:35 PM
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Buy yourself a program called pipemax, input your engine specs, and it will calculate the best tube diameter and length, as well as collector length, it will do single diameter or step diameter headers. It also is a good engine performance program, and does tons of other engine calculations. I have built several sets of headers using the program.
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/

Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: mopowers] #2835379
10/20/20 11:58 PM
10/20/20 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mopowers
Thanks for the ideas guys. As far as length goes, do you guys simply put the collector where you want it and connect the dots netting whatever length it takes (obviously within reason).

Are 2" primaries adequate for 600hp?


Depends if you're building dyno headers or car headers. For an early A body header you'll be lucky just to get four tubes into a collector regardless of length, size and number of bends. Those cars are horrible for headers. If you were building a set of dyno headers then 2 inch would be too big for 600 hp and the length is a critical dimension. For an early A body car all the theory goes out the window and you are just left with what you can fit into the car.

Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: AndyF] #2835390
10/21/20 12:28 AM
10/21/20 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by mopowers
Thanks for the ideas guys. As far as length goes, do you guys simply put the collector where you want it and connect the dots netting whatever length it takes (obviously within reason).

Are 2" primaries adequate for 600hp?


Depends if you're building dyno headers or car headers. For an early A body header you'll be lucky just to get four tubes into a collector regardless of length, size and number of bends. Those cars are horrible for headers. If you were building a set of dyno headers then 2 inch would be too big for 600 hp and the length is a critical dimension. For an early A body car all the theory goes out the window and you are just left with what you can fit into the car.


Absolute truth.
These are 1 7/8 " primaries , but I took a dull axe to the inner fenders to make room , and it still got really tight on the driver's side.
I did get a nice straight shot before the first bend , and they will go on and off without too much trouble.
Still had to run one tube on each side outside the frame rail and wound up with longer primaries than optimum to get them into the collector.............33 " to 34 " long was as close to equal length as I got , but since I am running mufflers and an X pipe , I don't think it cost me too much in the way of power.
But with the kit , the flanges and coating , I was into them for somewhere around 700.00
And well north of 40 hours............maybe 48 ?
This was my first , and hopefully last time building my own.
If someone could do up a set for 1200.00 , I'd throw in a case of beer and my sincere thanks.

cooling & headers 001.jpg20170624_131650.jpgcutting 036.jpg
Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: AndyF] #2835392
10/21/20 12:29 AM
10/21/20 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by mopowers
Thanks for the ideas guys. As far as length goes, do you guys simply put the collector where you want it and connect the dots netting whatever length it takes (obviously within reason).

Are 2" primaries adequate for 600hp?


Depends if you're building dyno headers or car headers. For an early A body header you'll be lucky just to get four tubes into a collector regardless of length, size and number of bends. Those cars are horrible for headers. If you were building a set of dyno headers then 2 inch would be too big for 600 hp and the length is a critical dimension. For an early A body car all the theory goes out the window and you are just left with what you can fit into the car.


That's kinda what I was thinking. Space is definitely the limiting factor. With the inner fenders and torsion bars out of the way, it'll be a tad easier though. Do you think I'd be better off going with 1-7/8" primaries? I'm not going for every last hp.

Combo will likely be a pump gas 470 w/ standard port window Edelbrock RPM heads cnc'd by Modern cyl head, ~260-ish * @ .050" solid flat tappet.

I assumed 2" primaries would be an appropriate size. What do you think?

Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: jwb123] #2835393
10/21/20 12:30 AM
10/21/20 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jwb123
Buy yourself a program called pipemax, input your engine specs, and it will calculate the best tube diameter and length, as well as collector length, it will do single diameter or step diameter headers. It also is a good engine performance program, and does tons of other engine calculations. I have built several sets of headers using the program.
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/


Thanks! I'll definitely look into that.

Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: tubtar] #2835394
10/21/20 12:36 AM
10/21/20 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tubtar
Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by mopowers
Thanks for the ideas guys. As far as length goes, do you guys simply put the collector where you want it and connect the dots netting whatever length it takes (obviously within reason).

Are 2" primaries adequate for 600hp?


Depends if you're building dyno headers or car headers. For an early A body header you'll be lucky just to get four tubes into a collector regardless of length, size and number of bends. Those cars are horrible for headers. If you were building a set of dyno headers then 2 inch would be too big for 600 hp and the length is a critical dimension. For an early A body car all the theory goes out the window and you are just left with what you can fit into the car.


Absolute truth.
These are 1 7/8 " primaries , but I took a dull axe to the inner fenders to make room , and it still got really tight on the driver's side.
I did get a nice straight shot before the first bend , and they will go on and off without too much trouble.
Still had to run one tube on each side outside the frame rail and wound up with longer primaries than optimum to get them into the collector.............33 " to 34 " long was as close to equal length as I got , but since I am running mufflers and an X pipe , I don't think it cost me too much in the way of power.
But with the kit , the flanges and coating , I was into them for somewhere around 700.00
And well north of 40 hours............maybe 48 ?
This was my first , and hopefully last time building my own.
If someone could do up a set for 1200.00 , I'd throw in a case of beer and my sincere thanks.



Man, those look awesome!!! I take it you're not volunteering to come do mine? haha! Those photos help a lot! Good thing my time is free, I guess. Who did the coating on yours?

This is what I'm working with. You know what they say - "where there's a will, there's a way."

66 front end.jpg
Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: mopowers] #2835461
10/21/20 08:57 AM
10/21/20 08:57 AM
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www.stainlessheaders.com

They have everything you need, and you can choose either stainless, or mild steel.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: mopowers] #2835545
10/21/20 11:31 AM
10/21/20 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mopowers
Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by mopowers
Thanks for the ideas guys. As far as length goes, do you guys simply put the collector where you want it and connect the dots netting whatever length it takes (obviously within reason).

Are 2" primaries adequate for 600hp?


Depends if you're building dyno headers or car headers. For an early A body header you'll be lucky just to get four tubes into a collector regardless of length, size and number of bends. Those cars are horrible for headers. If you were building a set of dyno headers then 2 inch would be too big for 600 hp and the length is a critical dimension. For an early A body car all the theory goes out the window and you are just left with what you can fit into the car.


That's kinda what I was thinking. Space is definitely the limiting factor. With the inner fenders and torsion bars out of the way, it'll be a tad easier though. Do you think I'd be better off going with 1-7/8" primaries? I'm not going for every last hp.

Combo will likely be a pump gas 470 w/ standard port window Edelbrock RPM heads cnc'd by Modern cyl head, ~260-ish * @ .050" solid flat tappet.

I assumed 2" primaries would be an appropriate size. What do you think?


Measure the area of your exhaust port and go from there. I bet 1 3/4 will be big enough for that combo.

Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: mopowers] #2835640
10/21/20 01:45 PM
10/21/20 01:45 PM
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I had a local guy do the coating..........Race Coatings in Forest lake , Mn.
They came highly recommended by a couple local racers , and I was more than happy with their work.
Race Coatings

You will have as much room as you can get without going to a strut front.
Make sure everything that the tubes will need to clear is in place , and get started on your 3-D jig saw puzzle.
I used some .125 " aluminum wire to mock up the tube routing and give me an idea of how they should be shaped.
Go slowly and try to minimize cuts and welds.
If I could do it , it isn't rocket surgery. laugh2

Last edited by tubtar; 10/21/20 01:50 PM.
Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: tubtar] #2835667
10/21/20 02:25 PM
10/21/20 02:25 PM
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engine masters has done a number of tests recently on header type, size, and exhaust length. It's a good watch in my book and great background info to have before building your own IMO.


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Re: What Size DIY Headers?? [Re: AndyF] #2835706
10/21/20 04:21 PM
10/21/20 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF


Measure the area of your exhaust port and go from there. I bet 1 3/4 will be big enough for that combo.


I just measured the exhaust ports and they're are 1.310" x 1.775" (2.325 in^2). You think 1-3/4" would be best? All the exhaust component companies I've contacted seem to think 2" primaries are best for 600 hp.

Also, I may not stick with the heads I have and I'd like to leave room for growth in the future.

Originally Posted by furious70
engine masters has done a number of tests recently on header type, size, and exhaust length. It's a good watch in my book and great background info to have before building your own IMO.


Thanks for the reminder. I'll have to go back and re-watch those.







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