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Re: RIP Bob Gibson:
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#2835917
10/22/20 12:07 AM
10/22/20 12:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
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gibson was nasty... of all the pitchers i have seen, he's in the top 3... koufax,marichal and gibson.... i'd rate koufax,gibson,juan as 1-2-3.... but man they were all good.... Koufax was great for 4 of his 12 seasons (the last four). Only six of his 12 seasons did he have a record above .500. Sub 3.00 ERA in only his last 5 seasons. There is not greatness in the whole of his career. I don't care how good he was for a few seasons, he doesn't belong in the conversation with many other pitchers, let alone Gibby and Marichal. Kershaw is considerably better than Koufax in a vastly different game. Jim Palmer was better. I could go on and could make a case that if Koufax is in the HOF (in my opinion his stats don't rise to that level), then Ron Guidry should be in (check the stats side by side). And, I've had this discussion with a former MLB pitcher (who is NOT nearly HOF worthy) and he agrees with my conclusion. 165 wins just doesn't make the cut for ANYBODY else... Uh, Koufax was easily among the all time best. It’s not even a discussion. He only had that few of wins because he was done at thirty. Reading this and knowing the list of things he accomplished makes it pure comedy to read. Good grief. Sandy Koufax not HOF worthy. Damn. Nobody is then. When you know what he did for those last years with a bum arm, it’s even more incredible. It's not the "Hall of a few great years". Sorry, but if Koufax is in, then Guidry should be in. Those are just the facts. Lots of guys had bum arms, backs, etc. and were great for a short time. Doesn't make them hall-worthy. I don't care how great he was for four years...Look at the numbers without his name and he's not in.
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Re: RIP Bob Gibson:
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#2835920
10/22/20 12:46 AM
10/22/20 12:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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Uh, this isn’t even a contest. Keep telling people Koufax isn’t hall worthy. Go ahead, I’m sure people won’t discount every thing else you tell them.
Win–loss record
170–91
Earned run average
3.29
Strikeouts
1,778
Teams
New York Yankees (1975–1988)
Career highlights and awards
4× All-Star (1978, 1979, 1982, 1983)
2× World Series champion (1977, 1978)
5× Gold Glove Award (1982–1986)
AL Cy Young Award (1978)
Roberto Clemente Award (1984)
2× AL wins leader (1978, 1985)
2× AL ERA leader (1978, 1979)
Versus this, in two less years no less-
Win–loss record
165–87
Earned run average
2.76
Strikeouts
2,396
Teams
Brooklyn / Los Angeles Dodgers (1955–1966)
Career highlights and awards
7× All-Star (1961–1962, 1963–1966)
4× World Series champion (1955, 1959, 1963, 1965)
NL MVP (1963)
3× Cy Young Award (1963, 1965, 1966)
2× World Series MVP (1963, 1965)
3× Triple Crown (1963, 1965, 1966)
3× MLB wins leader (1963, 1965, 1966)
5× NL ERA leader (1962–1966)
4× MLB strikeout leader (1961, 1963, 1965, 1966)
Pitched a perfect game on September 9, 1965
Pitched four no-hitters
PLUS it’s known his arm was trashed for the last few years of that dominance
I want my fair share
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Re: RIP Bob Gibson:
[Re: paris401]
#2837035
10/24/20 06:49 PM
10/24/20 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,831
Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,831
Central Florida
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Have to give some thought to the AL pitchers also, pitching to the DH, so Guidry's numbers are more impressive than they may seem on the surface. I'm not a Yankees fan, but those are impressive ERA's. I really don't care too much about won/loss, because you can have some high ERA's with good won/loss records because they score a lot of runs.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: RIP Bob Gibson:
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2837094
10/24/20 09:23 PM
10/24/20 09:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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I don’t know if Guidry was a major snub, but I’m still chuckling at the mere thought that Sandy Koufax isn’t worthy. Wow just wow.
n the major leagues, the Pitching Triple Crown has been accomplished 39 times. The most by one player is three, accomplished by three players.
Sandy Koufax was the most recent to capture three Triple Crowns, winning his three within four seasons for the Los Angeles Dodgers (1963, 1965–1966); all of Koufax's crowns led both major leagues, the most for any player.
Last edited by SomeCarGuy; 10/24/20 09:24 PM.
I want my fair share
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Re: RIP Bob Gibson:
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#2837261
10/25/20 01:21 PM
10/25/20 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,831
Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,831
Central Florida
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I don’t know if Guidry was a major snub, but I’m still chuckling at the mere thought that Sandy Koufax isn’t worthy. Wow just wow.
n the major leagues, the Pitching Triple Crown has been accomplished 39 times. The most by one player is three, accomplished by three players.
Sandy Koufax was the most recent to capture three Triple Crowns, winning his three within four seasons for the Los Angeles Dodgers (1963, 1965–1966); all of Koufax's crowns led both major leagues, the most for any player. I'm not saying Koufax is a yay or nay, but I also don't put a whole lot into awards and wins when considering. Again, teams can score a lot of runs for a pitcher, and have a great effect on won/loss records. And conversely, poor defense and low run scoring can really have a negative effect on a good pitcher's won/loss, etc. I really like ERA, innings pitched, and even WHIP. Those really tell the bulldog pitcher regardless of what he's got behind him.
Facts are stubborn things.
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