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Re: Frame swap question [Re: poorboy] #2827642
10/01/20 10:47 PM
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JWK57D100 Offline OP
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Gene,
I want to stay with a wood bed in the truck even though I will drop a few inches from the swap. The tank on the truck is cracked but I am going to use it to see if I can fab a gas tube to use the original gas cap on the cab and if i can I'll just get a new dakota tank. The dakota I got has the 8 foot bed too so I will have to play around with the bed mounts but I think once I get the frame stripped and start mocking up the new body and cab it will help. I think I was trying to put the cart before the horse and if I need to remove those front box mounts or reposition them I will be able to get a better idea once I set the cab on it. I plan to use the 8 1/4 rear end that came in the dakota so I will have to workout fitting the tires in the wheel wells too. This just gets better and better!


1957 D100
Progress [Re: JWK57D100] #2832981
10/15/20 11:33 AM
10/15/20 11:33 AM
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I have the frame stripped down to where I can start planning to shorten it. From what measurement I have taken so far I am going to shorten the frame where the front box mounts are located. The cab opening from the frame won't clear the old cab mounts but I still have a bit more measuring to do to see if I can just cut the old cab mounts off and use the box mounts where they are. I wish the next few weeks were as fun and quick as the last week of just stripping the truck down but I know that wont be the case. I will keep posting pictures as the build goes on.

Build 1.jpg
Last edited by JWK57D100; 10/15/20 11:34 AM.

1957 D100
Re: Progress [Re: JWK57D100] #2833152
10/15/20 08:42 PM
10/15/20 08:42 PM
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Usually, between the front fuel tank bracket (the high bolt on one) and the front bed mount (just in front of where your rear jackstands are) is about the best place to shorten one. You can take as much as 10" out of that area and still use the front bed mount and the Dakota tank. If you use a Dakota tank, you will need to notch the back of the cab to clear the front of the tank (4" above the floor and from the center of the cab to just outside the frame rail, about 6" into the cab). Most of the 50s trucks had a fuel filler hose that went through the cab floor at that point, so you would have to patch that hole anyway. If I could get my pictures off my old camera, I could show you a picture of the cut out and the floor patches. The biggest Issue I see with using the original gas fill hole in the cab is getting the Dakota fill hose to it and still have enough drop to fill the tank. The front bed mount cross member will be what causes the biggest issue..

Most often I've discovered that you can keep and use the back 1/2 (the front bed mount) of the cab/bed mount bracket. Usually the cab mount part is too high, too far back, and not in a good location for a rear cab mount on old cabs. I usually make a rear cab mount bracket (in the past I've used a piece of 3" wide channel, or a 2" wide piece of angle iron that got welded to the frame). Match up the new bracket with where the original rear cab on the cab your using are located.That way, unless I'm replacing the entire cab floor, I can re-use the original rear cab mount floor bracing and just update the actual rubber cab mount.

For about $100, you can buy a set of Energy Suspension replacement cab mounts for a Dakota. With the kit, you get 4 rubber bushings with a steel insert that goes between the frame brackets and the body with 4 rubber pieces that go under the frame brackets. You also get a pair of radiator support bushings with the steel inserts and a pair of the rubber bottom bushings. You need to supply the bolts and washers, but the bushing kit is pretty cost effective. You really need to look for the 6 mount rubber kit, they really want to sell you the $250 all inclusive kit. Gene

Re: Progress [Re: poorboy] #2833191
10/15/20 10:03 PM
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Gene,
I will look into cab mounts and bushings for sure, thanks. I have to take 16 inches out to get the right WB for the wheels to line up right under the fenders so I'm pretty sure I am going to have to make my cut on each side of the cab/box mount or lose the fuel tank bracket. If I take 16 inches from the middle of the bolt on bracket and the cab/box mount they will be touching each other if I could even get it to fit with them both. I was measuring everything today and the front box mount is only about a 1/2 inch off. If I lose the gas tank bracket that is what I will do and just have to use the 57 gas tank, which seems a little easier in my head but this is the first time I have done this so chime in if I'm mistaken. I double checked the measurements from the front of the frame to the center of each wheel to make sure the 16 inches was the right length, used the measurements of the 57 cab, fenders and bed to make sure it would all fit correctly. I know the important part is the cross measurements before and after I shorten the frame but I just wanted to double check everything before I started cutting.


1957 D100
Re: Progress [Re: JWK57D100] #2833708
10/17/20 12:08 AM
10/17/20 12:08 AM
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If your going to go EFI, the Dakota tank with the fuel pump inside is a very good option, but if your going to do a carb, I wouldn't worry about using the Dakota tank.
As far as the frame length, do you still have the 57's original frame around? By far the easiest way to get the correct wheel base is to maintain the 57's wheel base numbers. The biggest issue with using the cab , front clip and box is its way too easy to be off an inch or two. Things like how much space is between the cab and the box and exactly how the wheels it in the wheel opening can get you off a couple inches without even catching it until your assembling parts. Gene

Re: Progress [Re: poorboy] #2834550
10/19/20 11:11 AM
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Gene,
Yeah, I used the 57 to get the right wheel base measurements and figure out how much I need to cut from the Dakota. I was using the cab measurements t make sure everything else would fit close to how I expect and give me an idea of the brackets I need to make or move. The main reason I started down that rabbit hole is the 57 frame from the center of the front wheel to the front of the frame was about 7 inches longer and that got me wondering if the front grill and everything would fit the right way.

I was leaning towards a gen III hemi but I think I am going to stick with building a carbureted 360 and maybe stroking it. Most of the ones I can find are 2500-3K with 100k miles on them and that's just the engine. By the time I get a transmission and rebuild the 5.7 it would only be about 1000 to build a fresh 360 that I would put the first mile on, technically. That's probably something I should have decided before I started but I wasn't even sure the 5.7 was possible as easy as it is now until recently.

Last edited by JWK57D100; 10/19/20 11:12 AM.

1957 D100
Re: Frame swap question [Re: poorboy] #2999110
12/28/21 10:03 AM
12/28/21 10:03 AM
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Wow! What a super how-to ! My first post here and my first project. I have a ‘47 dodge truck and a 2nd gen ( 2001) Dakota quad cab 2wd.
I have stripped the body off the running dakota 4.7L,
and want to use the drive train as much as possible. I saved the wire harness just in case and it sounds like this was a good idea considering the variable voltage thing.
Being a quad cab it is considerably longer (130.4 inch w.b.) than any other dakota swap I have found online. Gene , I don’t suppose you have shortened the frame on one of these? I don’t expect cab mounts to match even though there are 3 sets of them, and I expect the ‘47 floor pan and firewall will need some modifications.
So glad I found this site!
Ray

569BC9B1-6AA7-4451-A0BD-9C1BC314AEE7.jpeg
Re: Frame swap question [Re: Ray 47WH] #2999311
12/28/21 09:02 PM
12/28/21 09:02 PM
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Ray, I've shortened about 6 Dakota frames in the past. Would have been 7 except the last build came with an already shortened frame that was done well, so I didn't have to do it. I do not have any experience with the Dakota frames past 96 (the frame style before your frame), but I suspect those are about the same. I believe the 97-03 Dakota (and 99-2003 Durango) frames still have the straight side rails between the about the firewall and the kick up for the rear frame end.

I did shorten a frame from an 05 Durango, I can tell you those redesigned frames are a royal pain to shorten, the side rails are not straight anyplace.


As long as your side frame rails are straight, about the best place to cut them is at the front edge of where the fuel tank ends, and remove the section forward of that area, but being a quad cab, it may be easier to remove the extra length under where the original Dakota cab sat. The plan would be to remove the section at a location where the two pieces you will be joining together have about the same shape. If you remove the section forward of the fuel tank, once its all welded back together, you can still mount the fuel tank in its original location. That solves a lot of problems.

I did a 39 Dodge (a 39 is the same cab as a 47) pickup on a 92 Dakota frame, but that was 3 builds ago, memory may be a bit fuzzy, There is a build of my 39 on the rat rod site www.killbillet.com look in the rat rod 30s truck section. The thread title is "a 39 Dodge pickup on a Dakota frame". it may be down the list a ways, but there were pictures of the process from the frame cutting to rolling down the road.

As I recall, I ended up moving the entire drive train back a few inches on that Dakota frame. The 39-47 trucks have a very short front clip. I mounted a 360 and had to cut the firewall back to the inset the original inline 6 sat in, and even then the radiator set inside the grill shell a bit. Motor placement is critical in those trucks, the cabs are very small, and you really can't afford to move the firewall back very far. I'm 6' 1" and 270 lbs, I had to sell the 39 because it was too uncomfortable for this old man to drive more then an hour.

You will have to cut both ends of your frame as well. The rear needs to be cut off right behind where the rear spring shackles attach to the frame. The front will have to be cut off at the front side of the spring pockets because the Dakota frame kicks out too wide from there. The grill shell will not fit around, over, or sit on top of the Dakota front frame stubs, I think I had to trim my grill piece to fit between the Dakota frame rails. On the front, you will have to add fabricated frame front stubs to get the frame back to the front bumper, the original Dakota frame stubs wouldn't be where you wanted them anyway.

I suggest, after you gave shortened the frame, you sit the cab on the frame, find a way to position the grill where it needs to be using the hood to establish the position of the grill shell and the cab relationship, then attach the fenders to the grill and position everything so the tires are centered in the fender openings. This will determine your cab position. Gene

Last edited by poorboy; 12/28/21 10:06 PM.
Re: Frame swap question [Re: poorboy] #2999810
12/30/21 09:32 AM
12/30/21 09:32 AM
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Gene, thx. I have the Dak in a different province, and plan to trailer the ‘47 body over to it in February for a test fit.
Plenty of bodywork to keep me out of trouble until then.

Re: Frame swap question [Re: Ray 47WH] #2999908
12/30/21 01:23 PM
12/30/21 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray 47WH
Gene, thx. I have the Dak in a different province, and plan to trailer the ‘47 body over to it in February for a test fit.
Plenty of bodywork to keep me out of trouble until then.


Hello Ray, this is Ray from B.C. .(Gene is my super-hero.) Not sure if what I am doing is of interest to you but i have done a Dakota front frame transplant on a 1956 Canadian Dodge (Plymouth) two door wagon.
I have used all the Dakota drive train including the Fuel Injected 318 and also have retained all the original wiring for now. I hope to be running this summer (and the last one and the one before that) and will eliminate some unnecessary wires latter.
I have a disjointed rambling build thread on here and with some progress (?) not posted. at :

ray's '56

Re: Frame swap question [Re: Ray 47WH] #3000136
12/30/21 10:10 PM
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Ray 47wh, I was looking at the pictures of your front fenders, those wheel openings look really big to me (might be the way they appear in the pic), are those off a big truck, like a 1 1/2 ton or something? If they are big truck fenders, you may want to hold off doing much body work to them until you can have a look when the truck is on the Dakota frame. The big trucks had something like 24" wheels and really tall tires. The front edge and the rear edge of the wheel openings were cut more open to accommodate the larger diameter tires when they were turned. The back end of the big truck fenders also hang much lower then the rear edge on a 1/2 ton frame. the Dakota frame tends to lower the body on the frame to begin with, the big truck fenders may actually drag on the ground when the truck is sat on the Dakota chassis.

one of the few advantages of the big truck fenders is you don't have to be as concerned about the wheels being centered in the wheel opening, because you will likely want to add some material to both the front and the rear of the opening. Could make it easier because you can adjust the added on pieces to shift the wheel opening forward or rearward as needed, you can do that while you are dealing with the too low rear end of the fender. Not such a big deal if you still have body work to do yet, but it really sucks if the body was ready for paint.

I've done a few of theses Dakota frame swaps, but on the last one I still had to cut the wheel flair on my 49 Dodge pickup front fenders and move it forward about an inch and a half. If I would have had all the body work done, I would not had been a very happy camper. Pics of the fender flair being moved on my 49 Dodge truck. Gene

100_0388.JPG100_0389.JPG100_0390.JPG
Re: Frame swap question [Re: Old Ray] #3000565
01/01/22 10:23 AM
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Old Ray. Thank you. Following your build. And yes, Gene is the go to guy!

Re: Frame swap question [Re: poorboy] #3000567
01/01/22 10:33 AM
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Gene, you have a good eye. My front fenders are indeed from a big truck, 3 ton. They are in really good shape so I am still undecided as to how they will work / look on the Dakota. It’s good to know they can be modified, but not a simple task for sure, or maybe I find a pair from a half ton? My plan so far, is to get the truck running, halt the rust, then if I win the lottery get it nicely painted.
Having fun
Ray 47WH

Re: Frame swap question [Re: Ray 47WH] #3000734
01/01/22 05:18 PM
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Ray47 wh, finding 1/2 ton fenders for a 39-47 truck may be a challenge. WW 2 interrupted the truck production at the beginning of the 41 model year, and the 1/2 ton truck production was halted in favor of the big truck production for the war effort. In 1942, all civilian truck production halted, every thing built was military use only. As a result of the 1/2 ton production, most of the early versions of the 1/2 ton trucks took a real beating because of having to cover the war years. Though civilian truck production restarted at the end of 1945, most of those very few trucks produced were 1 ton and 1 1/2 ton trucks. 1/2 ton truck production began with the 46 model, but material shortage and labor problems kept the productions a bit lower. Too add insult to injury, most big trucks didn't have any rear fenders, only the limited number of 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and fewer 1 ton pickups came with rear fenders.

Then add that Dodge actually made two versions of the front fenders, the difference being the location of the headlights on the fenders. The early version placed the headlights more towards the grill shell from the peak on the fenders. From 43 through 47, the headlights were moved onto the fender peak.

Modifying the big truck fenders isn't real bad, basically, you just have to add a pie shaped piece to the front of the wheel opening, and then add another pie shaped piece to the rear part of the wheel opening, then raise up the lower rear section (or cut it off). Since so few actually exist, as long as you make it look right to you, you should be OK. I just didn't want to see you do a bunch of body work on those fenders if there was modifications to come.

From time to time, front pairs and rear pairs of fiberglass fenders are produced for those 39-47 (may be listed as 45-47) 1/2 ton trucks, but they tend to run a batch of them, then everyone sells the same supplier's fenders, and after they have been gone for a while, they run another batch. Those glass fenders are very pricy when they exist. Waiting, thinking the price will come down is folly, pay the big bucks, or pass on them.

As far as the painting is concerned, I fully understand. I have a source that will spray the paint on my stuff, and he does a lot better job then I can, but its not a show quality job (I'm not paying for a show quality job either). Even then, the cost of the paint has gone crazy in the last couple years. In 2018 I had my buddy paint my 48 Plymouth, at his cost, the two colors of paint material (a quart of each color, hardener, and thinner) was nearly $300, today those same colors is almost 3x that price, at his cost, for me to walk in and buy it nearly doubles it again. That doesn't cost what I'm paying him to spray it, the coupe took up space in his paint booth for 3 days. I had some money set aside for painting my 49 pickup, but some of that money has been used for unexpected parts. The oil based primer I brushed on to protect it with for the winter is growing on me... Gene

Re: Frame swap question [Re: poorboy] #3001080
01/02/22 12:33 PM
01/02/22 12:33 PM
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this may be way out there, but would it be possible to use a pair of aftermarket [imported] fenders, from say, a mid to late chevy, and cut out the round wheel opening to use to fill in the opening of the big truck fender ?
i know this type fender is basically "flat" in the front to rear plane, but when cut away from the top curvature, and the rear flange area by the door, it may be workable to add to the other fenders ? shruggy
i'm no body man, but just throwing something out there as an idea.
beer

Re: Frame swap question [Re: moparx] #3001306
01/02/22 09:19 PM
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There are probably dozens of wheel openings that can be used to fill the gap on the big truck fenders that would work out great. If there is a local source where a guy can hold in his hand a wheel arch patch piece from a few different vehicles, he could probably choose one that matches up with the fender curves pretty well. I've done this in the past, and it works out pretty well. The problem with that concept is until you can put the new piece against the fender, you really can't tell how close its going to be. if you have to order a patch panel from someplace and then find out it just won't work, what can you do then? Will they accept the return, is there a restocking fee, and how much is the shipping cost both ways? A guy may soon have a collection of wheel openings because it cost more to send it back then it was worth. The fenders on these trucks have a pretty dramatic compound curve just past the wheel opening, especially on the big truck fenders. A nearly flat panel with a reinforced opening lip may not conform to that compound curve very well, or it might work out good. Then the patch panel needs to be long enough to reach both sides of the Dodge fender wheel openings.

Before you get too involved with any of this, you really need to have the fender bolted in place. To bolt the fender in place, you probably will have to trim the lower part of the fender (the heal of the fender) near the cab. Do that 1st, before you deal with the wheel opening. I say this because often times, when the fender is bolted in place, it is at a different angle (and location) then you thought it would be in.

Most of the time, a guy can buy a pretty large piece of 18 or 20 gauge flat sheet metal for less money then one wheel arch parch panel. Then he can use the excess metal for other patches he may need. The top of the wheel opening on these Dodge fenders has a pretty flat arch to them because Dodge basically opened them up for the front and rear tire clearance when the wheels were turned. Basically, all that needs to be done is to put back the part Dodge removed from the front of the wheel opening, and put back the part Dodge removed from the rear of the wheel opening. Those pieces are a basic triangle shape, one point is towards the center of the wheel opening, the bottom point is the bottom corner closest to the tire, and the 3rd corner is where the patch piece meats at the end of the original wheel opening front or rear edge. Use the cardboard material that holds your favorite beverage to make a cardboard pattern for the front of the wheel opening, and another cardboard pattern for the rear of the wheel opening. Cut and trim the edges so you have enough cardboard material to cover the areas you will need to weld, Tape the cardboard in place, then make the curve you need so it looks right to you. The nice thing about using cardboard is if you screw it up, you may be able to tape it back together, or you may have to drink more beverage to get another piece of cardboard. That cardboard pattern can be used for both front patch panels, or for both rear patch panels. You will probably want to round off the corner closest to the tire, and the side near the tire, and the side at the bottom that covers the gap between the original fender and the tire will need to be reinforced a bit.

Once you have your pattern the way you want it, add 3/4" to the full length of tire edge. This extra material will be bent back against itself. You will also be adding an extra 1/2" of material to the bottom edge of the patch, This extra material will be bend at about 90 degrees in (if you rounder the tire corner, add an extra 1/2" to that edge as well). When the pattern is done, transfer it to the metal (including the extra material). Mark your edges and cut the metal to match the pattern. Keep the pattern for the other side.

The curve on the tire side is the first part to form. Make sure you have a good visible line for your curve. Using a fairly narrow plyers (about a 1/2" jaw width), slowly begin bending that extra material towards the inside of the wheel opening making sure the end of the plyer jaw is at the line. You want to bend a few degrees at a time, all the way around the curve, then start another round of a few more degrees of bend all the way around the curve. Repeat the process until you have about a 90 degree bent lip At that point, a light hammer tap along the bend should smooth out any kinks in the bend line. Then continue with the few degrees of bend all along the again and repeat until the bent edge is nearly as flat as the plyers will allow. At that point, the remaining bend is done lightly, and slowly with light hammer tapping. Use the flat head part of the hammer, very carefully, being sure the hammer contact with the metal is light and square with the surface. Place a very smooth piece of thicker steel on the outside of the patch piece and from inside of the patch piece, lightly tap the bent edge together, all along the curve a few degrees at a time, and repeat until the surfaces are tight against each other. Any flaws in the smooth piece on the outside of patch will show up on that surface, and if you hit it too hard, that will also deform the outer surface. Once the gap is pinched closed, you can form any curve you need to match the fender curve.

You also need to add a reinforcing lip on the bottom edge of the patch piece. On this one, add a 1/2" of extra material (if you have rounded the tire corner, add the extra 1/2 inch to that area as well). The same process is used on the bottom edge as was used on the curved edge, except you can stop forming the edge when you get about a 90 degree bend towards the inside. I suggest you make one front patch and one rear patch for one fender using the same process and tack everything in place, then do the other fender.

The patch piece should be clamped to the fender and positioned as desired. Once happy, you need to mark where you will be welding the patch onto the fender. That area that will be welded needs to be shiny clean on both sides o\f the fender. Once cleaned up, clamp the patch to the fender and tack it into position. Be sure its properly located before you fully weld it. its much easier to cut a few tacks and reposition then it is to cut a fully welded line to reposition. I would recommend that you make and tack both the front and the rear patches on a fender before you fully weld it. Gene

Re: Frame swap question [Re: poorboy] #3002111
01/04/22 08:35 PM
01/04/22 08:35 PM
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Gene, the length you go to in explaining your method is unbelievable. After reading over it several times ( I'm a slow learner), hell I get to thinking I can do it!


By the way, I got the frame welded, fish plates welded over that, and closing in on mounting 55 dodge cab to 55/92 dak frame. In the middle of extending garage for more workspace now.

Kevin

Re: Frame swap question [Re: dart67] #3002144
01/04/22 10:14 PM
01/04/22 10:14 PM
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Thanks for the kind words. Good to hear about your progress. Keep at it, you can do this!

Often times I feel like I'm writing a book when I respond to some of this stuff, but I want to be sure to make this stuff as clear as I can, or it wouldn't be worth reading.

if I ever write something that isn't clear, please ask for clarification. I'll take another shot at making things more easily understood. I've done so much of this stuff over the years that much of it is automatic for me to do. I may forget a step or two along the way. Gene

Re: Frame swap question [Re: poorboy] #3047951
06/04/22 11:03 PM
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Hello again Gene
I have progressed to the stage where I have the 47 dry fitted onto the 2001 Dakota drive train. After laying out the bed,cab and front clip I have come up with a wheel base of 116 inch which is in agreement with Dodge for a 1/2 ton . All good so far. 15 inches needs to come out between bed and cab. Wide front frame horns have been lobed off the dak, as close to the crossmember immediately in front of the control arms as possible. A quick bracket was made to hold the U support against the crossmember and allow for up and down adjustments for now.
As per your previous advice I expect to have to add pie shaped pieces to the big truck fenders I’m using, but first I am unsure if I have placed the front clip back far enough on the dak frame? The front axle appears to be roughly in the center of the hood pieces. I am not sure if that’s where it goes?. A search of 39-47 side views hasn’t helped ( most fotos are taken at an angle for aesthetic reasons)
There doesn’t seem to be much room for the U shaped radiator/ grill support to go further aft without major cutting of it or the dak foremost cross member? It is a 4.7L v8 and even with fan removed and the radiator going to be squeezed forward, things are bunching up between the U support and the front of the engine pulleys.
I wonder if from this foto you can eyeball the front axle placement. Should the center of the wheel sit further forward in the fender? (The front fender is not fastened to the cab yet )
Thx a bunch!
Ray


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Re: Frame swap question [Re: Ray 47WH] #3048145
06/05/22 09:27 PM
06/05/22 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,486
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
I Live Here
poorboy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,486
Freeport IL USA
Ray, from looking at your photo, I believe the grill bottom needs to go back towards the cab a little bit, and it may also need to drop down slightly. The firewall to hood, and the hood to grill shell both need to have a uniform clearance or it throws the entire look of the truck off. This is important because the grill shell and the cab relationship puts everything on the front end in position.

Do you have the lower grill section? On the 1/2 ton, the lower grill section bolts to the top part of the grill, then the front of the fenders bolt to both pieces. this will pretty much put the wheels into the proper position on the truck, which will likely be farther forward in the wheel opening then it appears to be in your picture. I believe your front fenders are sitting too far forward. On a big truck, the rear end of the front fenders were under the doors, you may have to shorten the length of the fenders to clear the opening doors, but the 1/2 ton fenders cleared the doors.

On my 39, I ended up using a champion aluminum radiator for a 50-54 Chevy truck. It is narrow and tall, more narrow then the original Dodge truck radiator. That radiator fit entirely inside the dodge truck grill, as far forward as I could get it. I had to trim off some of the outer ends of the tin work from the inside of the grill slots to have clearance so they wouldn't rub against the radiator.
I don't have very many of the pictures I took left from the 39 build, most got lost in a couple back to back computer crashes, and the site the build was on appears to now be defuncted. These 4 are the best I can do, The first two (a left and a right shot) show how far into the grill shell the radiator sat. That is a Magnum 5.9 (360) motor. Also notice the in hose radiator fill. The radiator cap is 3-4" inches forward of the front edge of center of the hood.

In the 2nd two pictures(left and right sides) of the grill shell you can see in the top of the grill shell openings the amount of material I trimmed out for radiator clearance. Also notice, the bottom of the grill shell is not a factory piece. Under the chrome grill center piece is a fabricated piece of sheet metal because I wasn't running front fenders. That lower piece kind of has the look of the old steam train engine cattle movers. I still have that lower grill section here if you need one. The front of the fenders bolt to it. .

I built brackets out of 1/8" flat stock and welded them to the top of the frame, then added brackets to bolt the radiator to those brackets. The grill shell then bolts to the radiator support. Things were very tight there. I'm sorry I don't have pictures of that. The biggest deal there was to be sure the center of the grill shell was in line with the center of the cab, the frame rails are NOT centered with the cab, the frame is offset about 2" towards the passenger side. When you make bumper brackets, you will have to accommodate for that offset with the bumper brackets as well. I managed it with everything out in the open, it should be easy under the original lower grill piece in place. Gene

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