Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: Dragula]
#2818037
09/06/20 11:58 PM
09/06/20 11:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,992 Oregon
AndyF
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I Win
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Posts: 30,992
Oregon
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I put Jesel rocker arms on my EZ heads but my heads were the base EZ, not the 325. I had to build my own Jesel kit since nobody sold a kit for the EZ head. The 325 should have the offset rocker arms so you should be able to use a -1 Jesel kit. I used 16 exhaust rocker arms and then custom built some spacers to get it all lined up correctly.
This setup worked great on my 514. I picked up a ton of power switching to high ratio rocker arms and the correct cam. Made so much power I cracked the block and had to step up to a Mopar block. That was back when you just called the dealer and a new block showed up in a few days.
Last edited by AndyF; 09/07/20 12:01 AM.
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: Dragula]
#2818067
09/07/20 08:35 AM
09/07/20 08:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I had a lot of failures over the years with Jesel offset rockers. I suspect two things added to my problems versus other guys. Loose lash might be the biggest problem. My method was to set them with a very light drag-WHICH I NOW BELIEVE TO BE WRONG. So now i set them about .002 tighter plus .006 tighter for setting them cold , and a drag that us quiet heavy. So for .019 hot lash setting i set them at .011 cold. Those little needle bearings on the adjuster side of the intake rockers don't live a decent life if treated poorly with looser than spec lash and agressive cams and or a poor spring choice. DO NOT run an offset rocker that uses a C clip running against the needle bearing cage. Side loads eventually crush the bearing cage and destroy the bearings. The oil pump doesn't digest those little parts well and i guess i don't have to paint a full picture of the total carnage that can result. Instead special order your (intake only) rockers with the sides polished and order .030 shims (washers) from Jesel to locate your rockers. It took 2 shims on the adjuster side of my set and 1 on the other side to end up with them centered and i wound up with .006 to .010 side clearance so oil can get to the bearings. Run pushrod oiling and bushed rollerlifters( no needle bearings!) for the same reason. Personally i suggest a cam profile with lobes that are known to be somewhere between an endurance design and a bit more agressive design to keep everything happy and the shock loads down to a tolerable level. If you want to go fast, the add a little duration to allow lots of lift , a high ratio rocker on the intake (1.7 min) and run a real loose converter to match.
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/07/20 08:39 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: Dragula]
#2818173
09/07/20 02:12 PM
09/07/20 02:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
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My current bracket 400 stroker motor with 440-1 heads came with a set of Jesel 1.55 ratio paired shaft rocker arms, I set the heads up with 325 Lbs. on the seats and 825 Lbs. over the nose. I installed each pair of rockers one set at a time with the pistons at TDC on the firing stroke, once I got all eight pairs installed that stupid motor shocked the heck out of me on how easy it rotated after breaking it away with the spark plugs out I could not feel those valve springs at all I'm still not sure if it was just the rocker set up or the cam or both I'm going to use either T&D steel or Jesel steel paired shaft rockers on my new B1/MC headed motor
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/07/20 02:14 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: AndyF]
#2818236
09/07/20 05:47 PM
09/07/20 05:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020 MN
JERICOGTX
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I Live Here
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MN
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My INDY SR rockers have served me well for 20 years, but it was time for a upgrade. My T&D rockers finally arrived on Friday. These are going on my SR heads.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: AndyF]
#2818307
09/07/20 08:01 PM
09/07/20 08:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,822 MI, usa
dvw
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,822
MI, usa
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I've had the paired T&D on my -1 motor for 8 years, 700 + passes. They were purchased used. Except for a couple of brineled shafts which I believe were my own mistake they've been golden. Shafts were easily available $23. Pushrod oil. Lash stay consistent between checks. I love them Doug
Last edited by dvw; 09/08/20 05:26 AM.
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: dvw]
#2818314
09/07/20 08:12 PM
09/07/20 08:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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My guess is, between buying a new Jesel set up, removing the heads, having the heads modified to use them, plus the spray bar oiling, and the gaskets to reassemble everything, plus a new set of pushrods....... you’re looking at about a $2500 bill.
If you already have lifters that facilitate pushrod oiling, you can probably pass on the spray bars.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: AndyF]
#2818320
09/07/20 08:30 PM
09/07/20 08:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,706 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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The real problem is that you have to machine the heads for the Jesel rocker arms and it is a bit of a trick. Indy won't provide you with the machining instructions but Jesel might. If you do it yourself or have a local shop do it they'll need to build a fixture to hold the heads on the mill. You can send the heads to Jesel for the machine work or maybe you can send them back to Indy. I would imagine that someone like Best Machine could also do the conversion for you. I did it myself since back then everyone told me it couldn't be done. Jesel didn't have a kit for the EZ heads and Indy told me they weren't interested in putting Jesel rockers on the EZ head. I figured it out by myself but it took some time. Years ago, Best machined a set of W5 heads for Jesel rockers for me. It wasnt expensive, and was well worth the effort. The rockers, geometry, reliability was/ is superb. That set of rockers is still in service 15 odd years later.
Last edited by B3422W5; 09/07/20 08:31 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: Dragula]
#2818374
09/07/20 10:41 PM
09/07/20 10:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
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New York
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Huge chunks of metal could be safely removed from some of those. Then why didn't they do that? Increased production cost (more machining operations), but the real factor is that the excess material is so close to the shaft center that the inertia reduction is really small.
I would like to see an FEA though. The diagrams are easy to interpret, the industry has settled on "red = bad, yellow = needs work, blue = good to go". The ideal rocker is really thin in surprising places, taller than you might guess, and shows nothing but blue all over. The "art" part is how you stress the rocker, and how much, intuition helps you figure what it might do wrong (and is therefore stressed out of its plane of strength).
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: polyspheric]
#2818390
09/07/20 11:52 PM
09/07/20 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,135 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
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Melbourne , Australia
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Huge chunks of metal could be safely removed from some of those. Then why didn't they do that? Increased production cost (more machining operations), but the real factor is that the excess material is so close to the shaft center that the inertia reduction is really small.
I would like to see an FEA though. The diagrams are easy to interpret, the industry has settled on "red = bad, yellow = needs work, blue = good to go". The ideal rocker is really thin in surprising places, taller than you might guess, and shows nothing but blue all over. The "art" part is how you stress the rocker, and how much, intuition helps you figure what it might do wrong (and is therefore stressed out of its plane of strength). There is next to nothing of the arms used in Nascar racing, most people would be amazed really.
Alan Jones
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: LA360]
#2818478
09/08/20 10:39 AM
09/08/20 10:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,356 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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If you really want to spend money go with Jesel Steel rockers IMO T&D is as good if not better than Jesel. Usually at a lower price point. But when you need custom stuff Jesel seems more willing to do them than T&D. Oh yeah, always sucks when a plug gets blown out of the head..
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2818526
09/08/20 12:50 PM
09/08/20 12:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
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New York
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That center span would be even taller & thinner but for valve cover clearance.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?
[Re: DoubleD]
#2818615
09/08/20 03:50 PM
09/08/20 03:50 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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Personally, I miss my Comp steel rockers. I would love to get back to steel one's with a pinned roller in them and a bronze bushing. I do not like needle bearings in motors....Such a simple concept, yet...Nobody makes them to fit these heads. Now the Jesel Steel, those look to be a thing of beauty for sure, and no needle bearings of any kind......What do a set of those run?
Last edited by Dragula; 09/08/20 03:52 PM.
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