Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Used Car NIGHTMARE #2817151
09/04/20 08:56 PM
09/04/20 08:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Mr Potatohead Offline OP
Half Baked
Mr Potatohead  Offline OP
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
This may be a bit long so please be patient.

Ive waited to ask these questions until I got the title from the used car dealer, which I got today. Ive not driven the car for the issues I found and wanted to wait till I got the title.

Im not sure if this car was a flood car or just a wrecked car. I think wrecked.

The back of the title is filled fully up with three different hand writings and two different color of inks.

On the day I bought it as the paper work shows carfax with the date printed shows zero issues, no accidents, floods, ect...

I know a dealer can lie about things but can he sell an unsafe car?

Note the carfax showing clean, its had both passenger doors replaced or reskinned, upon further looking the bottom of the rocker was crushed in front to back and was filled with body filler. Horrific work on the repairs.

It seems to of been hit so hard that the bolts or rivits in the passenger seat were/are broke out.

I know most the time when you by something its as is but can they do things to hide the damage and one of the parties involves is one of the regions biggest dealerships, so no one can claim things were overlooked on there end.

What pics would you folks need to see to get some feedback? Ive many.

THANKS,.

Also if I do have recourse, do I go ahead and title it in my name but before get color certified copies?


STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817152
09/04/20 08:58 PM
09/04/20 08:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,205
United Socialist States of Ame...
T
tboomer Offline
Too Many Posts
tboomer  Offline
Too Many Posts
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,205
United Socialist States of Ame...
Not a charger may help...He is an insurance expert. wave


"It's the end of the world as we know it"
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: tboomer] #2817158
09/04/20 09:04 PM
09/04/20 09:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Mr Potatohead Offline OP
Half Baked
Mr Potatohead  Offline OP
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
I hope he will jump in, its pretty interesting and pretty F-d up.


STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817161
09/04/20 09:07 PM
09/04/20 09:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Mr Potatohead Offline OP
Half Baked
Mr Potatohead  Offline OP
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Dates and mileage on title dont jive with the car fax.

Tons of damage clearly was tried to be hidden vs disclosed or fixed right.


Last edited by Mr. Potatohead; 09/04/20 10:40 PM.

STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817164
09/04/20 09:08 PM
09/04/20 09:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Mr Potatohead Offline OP
Half Baked
Mr Potatohead  Offline OP
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
.

Last edited by Mr. Potatohead; 09/04/20 10:39 PM.

STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817166
09/04/20 09:14 PM
09/04/20 09:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Mr Potatohead Offline OP
Half Baked
Mr Potatohead  Offline OP
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
.

Last edited by Mr. Potatohead; 09/04/20 10:39 PM.

STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817168
09/04/20 09:21 PM
09/04/20 09:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,894
in a cattle trailer down by th...
G
Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones  Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
G

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,894
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Carfax won't know what wasn't reported. Obviously there was some damage and the repairs probably weren't paid for by an insurance company. Just who did it and when is probably going to be hard to find out. I personally would have a sit down talk with the dealer you bought it from before doing anything. If they are reputable they should take it back unless you signed an AS IS sale agreement but even then hidden damage like this can be a cause for them to work with you regardless of that.
Some body screwed up on the odometer but I wouldn't trust carfaxes number at all.


I never learned to count my blessings, I choose instead to live inside my disasters.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817171
09/04/20 09:24 PM
09/04/20 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,472
Freeport IL USA
P
poorboy Offline
master
poorboy  Offline
master
P

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,472
Freeport IL USA
The first set of number listed before each date is the dealer ID number, not a mileage number. It simply means the car was passed around to a few dealers pretty quickly. That's not real unusual. Many large dealerships won't keep a car around that is past a certain age or mileage. Many will sell it to a smaller dealer, and that smaller dealer could have taken it to an auto auction.

Carfax is as good as the last update.

Seat frame: I ran a small welding shop for 25 years. I've welded up a bunch of car seat frames. Most car seat frames are not designed for the super big people. When the sit in them and wiggle around (ever seen a big person get in or out of a smaller car? Its a wonder some last as long as they do), the seat frames crack and break.
Rusted and patched rocker: Rust happens in the rust belt. Repairs are not always that good. You would be amazed what people will do before they trade in a car, just to get a few more $$$ for their trade in. The dealer may, or may not have know about the rockers, but many wouldn't care on an older car. If it looks good, they get more money out of it.

Sorry to say, but it sounds like you should have checked the car over better before you spent your money on it. Its your's now. What are you going to do with it? Gene

Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: poorboy] #2817176
09/04/20 09:38 PM
09/04/20 09:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Mr Potatohead Offline OP
Half Baked
Mr Potatohead  Offline OP
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Thats why I asked if ive any recourse. I figured ive got what I got. And I can replace the rocker, its not that big of a deal. I just dont like not being told the truth.

He handed me the carfax and said it was accurate and the car had no repairs other then the front plastic bumper repainted. I looked it over a bit but didnt feel the need to look at the rockers since he just said it wasnt wrecked.

The back of the title is ugly and the dates dont jive with alot of the other dates on things n ways id never try to get away with.

But I dont understand on the title how it can go through three trans with different dealers with the same hand writing?



This cars the reason I went and bought a new hellcat charger, ive not bought a used car in the last 30 years I just keep them forever.

Last edited by Mr. Potatohead; 09/04/20 09:41 PM.

STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817265
09/05/20 02:37 AM
09/05/20 02:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,471
at work
Grizzly Offline
master
Grizzly  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,471
at work
Follow the game............not the ball.

"carfax"...............now how are they connected to ANY government agency?

That"s what i thought.




Sounds like you bought something "sight unseen". Unless You got it at less than auction price and are mechanically prepared to rebuild a pile of junk...............can't feel your sorrow.

Cut your losses, sell it for scrap and move on.

Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Grizzly] #2817273
09/05/20 06:10 AM
09/05/20 06:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,354
new berlin wisconsin
M
Mr T2U Offline
master
Mr T2U  Offline
master
M

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,354
new berlin wisconsin
i have worked at new card dealers for over 30 years. i spent a few years in the used car area during this time. i have also been part owner of a used car lot.

fist EVERY STATES LAWS ARE DIFFERENT. so what happens in my state might be different than yours.

first EVERY USED CAR sold is sold AS IS by a dealership. even new car demos are sold as is. there are factory warranties and other extended warranties sold by the dealer. but the cars are sold as is. for the most part once you sign the papers and pay the $$$ you own it.
there are certain laws regarding the window inspection sticker they have to follow. basically if it's checked off on the window sticker as being good it HAS to be GOOD. if it says the radio works the radio MUST WORK. it doesn't have to work perfect, but if it works they are good to go. the most serious violation is emissions systems. basically a dealer cannot sell a car that won't pass emissions.
structural damages are usually part of this window sticker. it gets to be a gray area of repaired structural damages. if you don't easily see the repaired areas the enforcement agencies usually side with the dealer. now if the car has hacked repairs where a blind man can see the damages and drives down the road sideways then the buyer has a case.

on writing on the back of the original title.
as least in Wisconsin the buyer will not get the original title when buying a car from a dealer. the buyer signs the title on purchase and then it's sent by the DEALER to the DMV for processing a title and mailed to the buyer. in the past some dealers went to the DMV and got titles for the buyer over the counter along with plates. the laws have changed a bit and there are satellite processing places but this is irrelevant to the main subject.
when a dealer buys a car from another dealer it gets signed at the first dealer then sent to the next dealer. he signs it and if it goes to another dealer the same thing happens. you can usually do this 3 times and then the dealer must get a title in their name and the process starts all over. if the title is altered in any way it becomes void and a complicated process begins to get a title.

as far as carfax not showing damages.
in most cases carfax is mostly a marketing gimmick. if repairs are not done at a licensed repair shop at RETAIL it usually won't show up on a carfax. i own a 08 bullitt mustang. the car has been totaled 3 times, one of those times it had significant structural damages. it was repaired off the books and the car has a perfectly clean carfax. if the hack rocker repairs were done internally it usually won't show up on a carfax. also there can be significant delays between the actual repairs and when it shows up on the carfax. at the dealer i work at now has purchased back cars 7-8 months after the sale because of a surprise report of structural repairs done in the past. they didn't HAVE to do this, but we have been in business over 100 years and their reputation is more important than a couple of thousand $$.

hope this info helps. but again EVERY STATE HAS DIFFERENT LAWS. if there is a major problem with the car contact a lawyer in your state for accurate info.


perception is 90% of reality
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr T2U] #2817283
09/05/20 06:42 AM
09/05/20 06:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,894
in a cattle trailer down by th...
G
Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones  Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
G

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,894
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Like I said, he needs to talk to the dealer he bought it from first and see what they say. Absolutely no sense in getting worked up and taking some sort of legal action when the dealer may just take the car back. Why make it harder than it has to be?


I never learned to count my blessings, I choose instead to live inside my disasters.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. NV4500 coming soon.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Guitar Jones] #2817289
09/05/20 07:11 AM
09/05/20 07:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,354
new berlin wisconsin
M
Mr T2U Offline
master
Mr T2U  Offline
master
M

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,354
new berlin wisconsin
i am not disagreeing with you.
talk to the dealer first. but from my experience he won't get very far.
the dealer will probably be in this position, it's the customers responsibility to fully inspect the car before purchase. be bought it, he paid for it, he owns it.

as others have posted seat frames break from wear and tear a LOT. now if the seat belt is integrated into the seat then this could be a serious problem.


perception is 90% of reality
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr T2U] #2817292
09/05/20 07:34 AM
09/05/20 07:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Mr Potatohead Offline OP
Half Baked
Mr Potatohead  Offline OP
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Thanks fort he input, I will talk to the dealer. I looked at my states DMV site on dealer fraud and damage aside there paperwork vs the info from the NMVTIS someone is trying to skirt something on this car, its plain as day, like looking at two sets of books that should be the same.

Anyway it should be interesting.

What sucks is I like the car, I can fix whats wrong, but they got rules they must play by and in this case it dont look liike they have.

My states DMV site does suggest trying to work it out with the dealer then if nothing productive happens they have the forms to fill out to get the state AG involved.

But I can tell ya, over the years ive seen alot of stuff that dont add up on cars, titles and paperwork and this deal here has red flags the size of texas.

The more I wrote the more confusing I can make it sound so I will report what comes of things.


STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817304
09/05/20 07:55 AM
09/05/20 07:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 963
New Jersey
P
Powerflow Offline
super stock
Powerflow  Offline
super stock
P

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 963
New Jersey
There is a time delay between a car getting sold at auction and when the Carfax is updated. If a dealer is the winning bidder on a car that will have issues when the Carfax is updated, he will run a Carfax immediately after buying it so the report still looks clean. Carfax won't show repairs if the car owner is self-insured. Especially true with rental cars and other fleets. My friend worked at a dealership and the used car manager bought several former rental vehicles at auciton. Every one of them had a clean Carfax and chassis damage.

Too many title flips close together means the first dealer got stung by the prior owner (probably shoddy off-the-books repairs) and he tried offing it to another dealer. Years ago, my neighbor got in a bad wreck with a 2-year-old Mercury Sable. His brother the backyard bodyman put it back together (can you say 'gallons of Bondo'....). My neighbor promptly traded the car in on a new one. I heard through the grapevine that the dealer really got screwed on that deal.

Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Powerflow] #2817309
09/05/20 08:02 AM
09/05/20 08:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,575
Florida STAYcation
Doc Fiberglass Offline
King of the thread hijackers
Doc Fiberglass  Offline
King of the thread hijackers

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,575
Florida STAYcation
Bummer pOtO.... how does it drive ?

Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817320
09/05/20 08:31 AM
09/05/20 08:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,636
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger Offline
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
not_a_charger  Offline
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,636
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
As stated CarFax is only as good as the data provided to them. My experience is that most of the time, the info listed on CarFax is accurate, but accurate does not equal complete. Errors are much less common than omissions.

The dealership will play dumb and argue that the clean CarFax absolves them of responsibility, but an counter argument can be made that they are experts, and as such, should have inspected the vehicle and found these obvious flaws. The title should've been a significant red flag.

I would contact an attorney and have them deal with the dealership, and I would also ask the attorney whether or not you should transfer the title into your name. I suspect the attorney will tell you not to do so, as you may need the current title as evidence.

I will never buy a car sight unseen again unless I have it inspected by someone knowledgeable and trustworthy. A Moparts member screwed me hard because he has a good reputation, and he knew he could sell me his POS for top dollar, and that I would take his word for it that it was a good car, when in fact, it was a death trap. I'm sorry you got screwed here as well.


Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.

DBAP
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2817321
09/05/20 08:33 AM
09/05/20 08:33 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,733
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
top fuel
Sniper  Offline
top fuel
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,733
nowhere
Carfax epitomizes GIGO.

Garbage in, garbage out. As far a any sort of legal documenting CARFAX is specious as a source. Almost like using Wikipedia as a source.

Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Sniper] #2817354
09/05/20 10:29 AM
09/05/20 10:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Mr Potatohead Offline OP
Half Baked
Mr Potatohead  Offline OP
Half Baked

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 2,709
Spudsville
Ive put 6 miles on it and it runs and drives. stops straight.

WELL after a bit more thought and talking to the wife. As angry as I am its been scuffed and semi fixed, I can fix it properly.

I really like the car, its like a mini charger in alot of ways.

It looks like my hellcat chargers offspring.

Ive already spent $1200 on all the missing aero stuff that should be on the underside but wasnt? (not put on yet)

Its spent its life in El Paso and the New Mexico... its dusty and dirty in alot of places but no rust or corrosion of any kind.

SO I could let this eat me up and chase it or just suck it up and realize ive got alot more and bigger issues in life then the let this deal of maybe paying $2500 too much mess with me.

So I guess I will just run the title through and make it right and make the best of it...... Does it make sense that some things ya just got to let go of?

AND its a great reminder that if IM expecting a NEW car, buy it NEW.

Hell its got so many of the good options and even the remote start works great.




DSC00765.JPGDSC00176.JPG

STOP POTATO HATE!
Re: Used Car NIGHTMARE [Re: Mr Potatohead] #2817360
09/05/20 10:46 AM
09/05/20 10:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,075
Las Vegas, NV
Tom_440 Offline
master
Tom_440  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,075
Las Vegas, NV
Like what was already stated - you may be looking at dealer fraud. You may be able to unwind the deal, but again it depends on how it was sold and the your state laws. Was it sold "as is?" Was there any warranty whatsoever? If you intend to keep it then none of this matters, but if you want your money back its best to act sooner rather than later.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1