Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
solar power for home #2803950
08/01/20 08:51 PM
08/01/20 08:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline OP
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline OP
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
So for my entire life I been hearing how the price of solar is dropping exponentially along with battery price.... so, where does one begin when thinking about buying a complete system for living off the grid? What should it cost?


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: solar power for home [Re: HotRodDave] #2803960
08/01/20 09:07 PM
08/01/20 09:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,660
A
Andrewh Offline
master
Andrewh  Offline
master
A

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,660
That is still pretty expensive.
you have multiple things to consider.
Fully off the grid means how much capacity the panels have, storage and how much are you going to burn through.
Some things can be either gas or electric.
But if you are fully off the grid, you are probably out a ways, so you have to consider propane as the source for other fuel choices.

The area you live in makes a difference. How sunny is it.
How much room do you have for panels, vs just the roof. Because just the roof won't get you off the grid.

There are appliances that are specifically rated for lower wattage use.
So that would also include the air handler for your a/c unit if you need one.
hot water heater etc..

You would have to first run the numbers on how much power you need.
Then figure out how much square footage of panels you need to just keep up.
Then you need to know how much extra you need to charge up the batteries and maintain your min due to less sunny days.
Then how much battery capacity you need based on how long you need to keep power for when it is dark, rainy, or cloudy/snowy.

once you get those numbers you can figure out how much it will cost you.

Now companies come around all the time pushing "free" solar panels to supplement the grid where you live.
Those seem to run around 25k, but it isn;'t going to get you off the grid.

Solar isn't the most efficent, or optimum.
you really need wind and solar to have enough that won't break the bank to be fully self sufficent.

Re: solar power for home [Re: HotRodDave] #2803961
08/01/20 09:07 PM
08/01/20 09:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
We have a solar installer member here ( ft Lauderdale) , and another solar long time user in St Croix, they will be able to address your inquiries. bump


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: solar power for home [Re: jcc] #2803970
08/01/20 09:24 PM
08/01/20 09:24 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,176
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,176
nowhere
Pretty sure Montana doesn't see the sun like FL or St. Croix does. Not to mention winter differences. Snow on the panels need removed. Long winter nights up north are also an issue.

Re: solar power for home [Re: Sniper] #2803972
08/01/20 09:31 PM
08/01/20 09:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
Originally Posted by Sniper
Pretty sure Montana doesn't see the sun like FL or St. Croix does. Not to mention winter differences. Snow on the panels need removed. Long winter nights up north are also an issue.


Good thing you are here, I'm also sure the two I mentioned above will be grateful and enlightened for that geographical detail. eyes


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: solar power for home [Re: HotRodDave] #2804024
08/02/20 01:14 AM
08/02/20 01:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,662
Jefferson State
S
srt Offline
ESYC
srt  Offline
ESYC
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,662
Jefferson State
Another thought would be hydro of you have fall and water supply .
If you are doing new construction there are all sorts of energy efficiency methods you can incorporate.
Geo thermal
solar orientation
earth insulation of building envelope
solar hot water (big money saver)
12 v lights
If you have a stream and a way to re-route a small impound (tank or pond) of water you can run a pelton wheel.
For full off grid battery storage banks and inverter to get to the voltage you want.
A lot of the first items are relatively inexpensive compared to battery purchase / replacement.
The more alternative and efficiency you build in the smaller battery bank you'll need.
I'd start by building or retrofitting a home to get the most solar gain. Search: Passive Solar Home Design or maybe PS home projects
a start https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/energy-efficient-home-design/passive-solar-home-design




Re: solar power for home [Re: srt] #2804032
08/02/20 02:42 AM
08/02/20 02:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
Solar inverters are the most common breakdown point.

Some questions to consider going completely “off the grid” beyond the electric usage return on investment...

Does your solar company offer 24 hr, 365 day repair support? Does that house call come within 1-2 hrs ? Does a governmental agency monitor your solar companies breakdown to restoring power (fix) support time?

Does your solar company include a maintenance program to come out to your house and check your equipment for as long as you are using the solar?

If your solar equipment fails or has an issue, does it automatically sent a message to repairman to come out and make a house visit without you calling?

If you are “off the grid” and have no continuous financial connection with the company that sold you the equipment or any other solar company. Is that maintenance support included with the initial cost of your equipment or is it an additional monthly service/insurance fee?

Last edited by autoxcuda; 08/02/20 02:46 AM.
Re: solar power for home [Re: jcc] #2804062
08/02/20 09:03 AM
08/02/20 09:03 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,176
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,176
nowhere
Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by Sniper
Pretty sure Montana doesn't see the sun like FL or St. Croix does. Not to mention winter differences. Snow on the panels need removed. Long winter nights up north are also an issue.


Good thing you are here, I'm also sure the two I mentioned above will be grateful and enlightened for that geographical detail. eyes


Someone's got to cover for you

Re: solar power for home [Re: HotRodDave] #2804077
08/02/20 09:32 AM
08/02/20 09:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,895
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,895
Benton, IL.
Around here, solar installation outfits come and go like the seasons. I would sure be concerned about depending on them a few years down the road. Same goes for much of the components.

And we have geo-thermal. We are not unhappy with it, but in our climate zone, I don't see how on earth it really makes any financial sense. It is just too expensive to install and any service is also much more expensive.

We would have already installed solar here, but the financial deal with the utility is just plain horrendous. The 2 deal breakers for me is that if the utility power is down, then we are down. And during the summer, typically you produce more power that you consume. That power goes into the grid and you get a credit. But the credit disappears at the end of the calendar year. So you end up giving them your excess power in the summer and then they get to sell you their power in the winter. tsk


Master, again and still
Re: solar power for home [Re: DaveRS23] #2804085
08/02/20 09:47 AM
08/02/20 09:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,253
Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dIc dOc Deity !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,253
Florida STAYcation
The SUN is one heckeva thing to TRULY DIGEST !

Two trivia Qs ... if we could LIGHT OFF all the energy man has ever produced SINCE DAY ONE .. how long would that power the sun ?

If we could harness ALL the solar energy that hits THE ENTIRE EARTH during 24 hours AND COULD PROPERLY store it ... how long would that power ALL OF OUR energy needs ?

Re: solar power for home [Re: HotRodDave] #2804105
08/02/20 10:44 AM
08/02/20 10:44 AM

R
RWG75
Unregistered
RWG75
Unregistered
R



Grid connected has best operating characteristics. Use as much self generated as ya can, some times back fill from grid, sometimes sell back.

Cost to install and get turn key depends on buy or lease and kinda oddly like a car. Lease is like no money down but they own the hardware for the first 20 yrs. Less out of pocket but less margin because it's split. Still a long term option. I like cut a good deal, buy it, take 30% tax credit except retired, no income to use it until a few years from now. More out of pocket, much faster pay back and larger long term gain. Roof condition before install should be looked at. Probably pretty easy to pop the racks off for a re shingle but why do it if ya don't have to.

Overall prices have gone down as availability has gone up and technology improved. Monitor / control yer install and connections thru yer app. Boom market for installers, Obama policies helped, local governments are insane. A few years back some sun belt state yanked all incentives / grid buy back mins - totally killed solar as viable and a company or three. Eventually over turned in the courts, check yer local scenario. That was extreme but conditions are subject to change.

Re: solar power for home [Re: HotRodDave] #2804140
08/02/20 11:44 AM
08/02/20 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
Originally Posted by HotRodDave
So for my entire life I been hearing how the price of solar is dropping exponentially along with battery price.... so, where does one begin when thinking about buying a complete system for living off the grid? What should it cost?


Check in your local area for installers and subsidies. I looked into is last year here in Oregon and found that you had to have a large southern facing roof before they would even bother to talk to you. If you have a large southern facing roof then they will provide you with a quote. If your roof is large enough you might be able to put enough panels on it to power your house. Pull out some of your electric bills so you know exactly what you're dealing with in terms of load and cost. You need to qualify for a really large subsidy before it even comes close to making sense.

Re: solar power for home [Re: AndyF] #2804144
08/02/20 11:52 AM
08/02/20 11:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,660
A
Andrewh Offline
master
Andrewh  Offline
master
A

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,660
That reminds me, talking about maintenance.

solar panels lose efficiency due to age. so you have to ask how that works. it is at some point necessary to replace them.
The issue is payback costs don't line up with when they have to be replaced.

Re: solar power for home [Re: Andrewh] #2804149
08/02/20 11:56 AM
08/02/20 11:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
Originally Posted by Andrewh
That reminds me, talking about maintenance.

solar panels lose efficiency due to age. so you have to ask how that works. it is at some point necessary to replace them.
The issue is payback costs don't line up with when they have to be replaced.




Yep, lots of little details like that. CA recently passed a law saying all new houses needed to have solar panels but it was quickly pointed out by a bunch of people that the state of CA fudged the numbers when they claimed it would pay for itself. At the moment it doesn't seem close to paying for itself for most installs. It might be possible with a new house in CA that is designed to be super efficient that a solar array could provide power and eventually pay for itself but I can't see it happening in Montana on a house that wasn't designed for it. Most likely zero chance of that happening.

Last edited by AndyF; 08/02/20 11:56 AM.
Re: solar power for home [Re: AndyF] #2804154
08/02/20 12:09 PM
08/02/20 12:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
C
crackedback Offline
top fuel
crackedback  Offline
top fuel
C

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
A friend did a self-install on his own for about 8K to kill his entire winter bill plus some extra.. summer bills are small. Around here depending on utility provider, the payback is as quick as 3-4 years with our crazy summer AC bills.

One neighbor has is house during summer at 68* when it's 100+ out... no bill with his solar. I bet his bill would be 700+ during summer with that indoor temp and AC running 18 hours a day.

Lots of places it doesn't make sense. In the desert here, we have two primary electric providers. One is much more expensive than the other and it makes sense to do solar in their area. The less expensive provider, it's basically a wash for the most part unless you have significant usage, pool spa, water features, huge AC units.

Re: solar power for home [Re: crackedback] #2804488
08/02/20 10:20 PM
08/02/20 10:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline OP
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline OP
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
We are asking because 20 acres I want to buy is going to cost a pile to run power company power to it, if I can spend $15,000 and have basically no electric bill for 10 years I will be very far ahead.

It's true, we don't have the sunshine of so cal or phoenix but we can run wood heat, propane heat, LED light blobs and such and run a pretty minimal electric bill., probably gonna do all that anyhow so not like they are extra expenses. The land is mostly sunny, the mountains don't effect sunshine much where it is located. Also we already don't run AC in the summer so that's not even a big deal.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: solar power for home [Re: HotRodDave] #2804519
08/02/20 11:59 PM
08/02/20 11:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,662
Jefferson State
S
srt Offline
ESYC
srt  Offline
ESYC
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,662
Jefferson State
Here is another concept I did not mention trombe wall
I think the more insulation and heat or cool storage you get the better. Also think about extra foundation insulation.
A lot of these items can be done inexpensively when building new.
Montana state has a website resources.

Re: solar power for home [Re: HotRodDave] #2804521
08/03/20 12:10 AM
08/03/20 12:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
Originally Posted by HotRodDave
We are asking because 20 acres I want to buy is going to cost a pile to run power company power to it, if I can spend $15,000 and have basically no electric bill for 10 years I will be very far ahead.

It's true, we don't have the sunshine of so cal or phoenix but we can run wood heat, propane heat, LED light blobs and such and run a pretty minimal electric bill., probably gonna do all that anyhow so not like they are extra expenses. The land is mostly sunny, the mountains don't effect sunshine much where it is located. Also we already don't run AC in the summer so that's not even a big deal.



If you are building the house then you can do a lot of tricks to save energy. Extra thick walls, extra insulation, bury the back side of the house into a hill, arrange the house so you get maximum solar heat during the day, etc.

Re: solar power for home [Re: AndyF] #2804540
08/03/20 02:49 AM
08/03/20 02:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,857
Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline
master
hooziewhatsit  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,857
Oregon
So it's off grid to start with work

I think Tesla is running ~$1.49/watt right now. So 8kw => $12k. Add a couple powerwalls and you're around 30k before incentives

If you can do all the research and find the panels and inverters yourself, you may be able to come in cheaper than that.

Getting to 100% from solar all the time might be hard, unless you dramatically oversize it, or are fine with the occasional "day off". A propane generator backup probably wouldn't be a bad thing.

-------------

For my address, Tesla is recommending a 16kw array, and 4 powerwalls. Cash price of $60k, but that's 100% off grid, with 12 days of backup duration shock scope


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: solar power for home [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2804562
08/03/20 07:51 AM
08/03/20 07:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,253
Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dIc dOc Deity !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,253
Florida STAYcation
If THIS came with a solar system... I’d consider THAT at my shop ... grin

523719D9-42C6-4402-B9AD-FC335F26E533.png
Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1