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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2802764
07/30/20 08:55 AM
07/30/20 08:55 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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[quote=Alchemi]I know nothing of engines at this level, but are those normal bsfc figures for this sort of monster? they look really high?
Might be some more tune left in it? [/quot
We made several pulls, adding fuel (methanol) each pull. It just kept making more power the more fuel we threw at it. The bsfc numbers said it was fat, but the power just kept going up. We finally hit a point where peak torque stayed the same.
This shows the value of dynoing a motor. I was certain i knew roughly where the tune should be. I had run a calculation on a web site that said a .117 main bypass would be close. I started at .108 and ended at .092! That means i pushed about 16 percent more fuel at it than my already supposedly rich point of .108.
Also we found and fixed oil leaks that could have cost me a weekend.
Without seeing the results of the unexpected high horse power at 7200, i could have chased the tuneup at the track and never figured it out because of false assumptions i had about what the motor wanted and how high it would make power. BSFC is an indication of combustion efficiency and not necessarily if the engine is rich or lean. Your A/F ratio for methanol is much closer to about right for what I’ve seen. IMO a BSFC of .99-1.125 is in the park for methanol.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2802774
07/30/20 09:27 AM
07/30/20 09:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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Very impressive! I didn't expect 80+ HP improvement. That a lot of power out of set of -1s
Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987 71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide 68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: dvw]
#2802788
07/30/20 09:59 AM
07/30/20 09:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
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926 hp at 7200 rpm; very nice. Especially for a 440-1 headed engine. And still making power at end of pull to 7200. Would likely work well shifting above that (if desired); or if the finish line rpm was a couple hundred above that. I think the added cam duration, with the corresponding increase in CR worked well together. Also right for the added CID. That combo is working!  I looked at my alcohol tune back when I was running a Ron's injection. No dyno numbers, but track testing with wideband oxygen sensor. I was running A/F in the low 12's (12.0-12.3) on the gasoline scale. (about 5.3 on methanol scale with Stoichiometric ratio of 6.45) I did try it at 5.1 and it didn't go any faster/slower or any different mph (on my combo). I also tried a high speed lean out (high rpm) looking for more mph, but didn't see any significant change in timeslip. But it did level out the high rpm A/F. I was footbraking, and it did like staging at a rich level for ultimate throttle response. Just a barrel valve adjustment that didn't change down track A/F.
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2802791
07/30/20 10:13 AM
07/30/20 10:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360
Las Vegas
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Conkgrats on the new numbers nice gain for sure. Been my experience these things like way more fuel than most think they will be it gas or Alky. Now get it in the car and lets here the results.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2802792
07/30/20 10:19 AM
07/30/20 10:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Great numbers The curve really hangs on well up top too. Congrats!! Just keep in mind, there could easily be a 20-40hp gain that you’re getting from the 2-1/4” headers used this time vs the 2” used last time. What’s on the car?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2802888
07/30/20 01:18 PM
07/30/20 01:18 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
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Awesome results! Congrats
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2802920
07/30/20 02:20 PM
07/30/20 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Great numbers The curve really hangs on well up top too. Congrats!! Just keep in mind, there could easily be a 20-40hp gain that you’re getting from the 2-1/4” headers used this time vs the 2” used last time. What’s on the car? Thanks Dwayne. We put the racecar headers on it and the aircoeaner i run. Total hp loss was 5! The headers were tested seperate and were down only 1 hp. So it will probably make the same power or more than its' best pull on the back half of a run due to ram air. We also tried 33 and 35 degrees timing but no gains. 34 degrees is the best. Thanks for the compliments guys. As you can guess, i am pleased as punch. I was hoping to see 900!
Last edited by gregsdart; 07/30/20 03:31 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2802949
07/30/20 03:10 PM
07/30/20 03:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,994
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,994
Oregon
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[quote=Alchemi]I know nothing of engines at this level, but are those normal bsfc figures for this sort of monster? they look really high?
Might be some more tune left in it? [/quot
We made several pulls, adding fuel (methanol) each pull. It just kept making more power the more fuel we threw at it. The bsfc numbers said it was fat, but the power just kept going up. We finally hit a point where peak torque stayed the same.
This shows the value of dynoing a motor. I was certain i knew roughly where the tune should be. I had run a calculation on a web site that said a .117 main bypass would be close. I started at .108 and ended at .092! That means i pushed about 16 percent more fuel at it than my already supposedly rich point of .108.
Also we found and fixed oil leaks that could have cost me a weekend.
Without seeing the results of the unexpected high horse power at 7200, i could have chased the tuneup at the track and never figured it out because of false assumptions i had about what the motor wanted and how high it would make power. Yep, that is the value of spending quality time on the dyno. It is a great tool for finding problems and finding power. The track is also a great tool for figuring out what works and what doesn't work in terms of getting the power to the ground. Now that you have the engine dialed in you should be more productive at the track figuring out how to put it to the ground. That torque curve should be friendly to a torque converter and drivetrain. Just a big mountain of torque. And now that you know where the power curve is you can select the best gear ratio for the car. I bet you pick up some ET and speed given the new knowledge. Looks like you'll need a huge by huge fuel pump and fuel delivery system. That engine is sucking down the fuel!
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: AndyF]
#2802986
07/30/20 04:49 PM
07/30/20 04:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
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Looks like you'll need a huge by huge fuel pump and fuel delivery system. That engine is sucking down the fuel! Those crank driven alcohol pumps can pump lots of fuel. Even with Greg's 0.092 bypass pill, I bet he is still pumping 40% back into the tank, so his pump should do the job. And the nozzles also have flow restriction jets in them.
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: Dragula]
#2803108
07/30/20 10:08 PM
07/30/20 10:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714
Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714
Central TEXAS!!!!
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That looks great, where did you end up on timing?
Joe
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2803119
07/30/20 10:24 PM
07/30/20 10:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,495
PA
moparacer
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,495
PA
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[quote=Alchemi]I know nothing of engines at this level, but are those normal bsfc figures for this sort of monster? they look really high?
Might be some more tune left in it? [/quot
We made several pulls, adding fuel (methanol) each pull. It just kept making more power the more fuel we threw at it. The bsfc numbers said it was fat, but the power just kept going up. We finally hit a point where peak torque stayed the same.
This shows the value of dynoing a motor. I was certain i knew roughly where the tune should be. I had run a calculation on a web site that said a .117 main bypass would be close. I started at .108 and ended at .092! That means i pushed about 16 percent more fuel at it than my already supposedly rich point of .108.
Also we found and fixed oil leaks that could have cost me a weekend.
Without seeing the results of the unexpected high horse power at 7200, i could have chased the tuneup at the track and never figured it out because of false assumptions i had about what the motor wanted and how high it would make power. You will still have to tune it at the track. Different situation in the car. I just dynoed my engine last friday and to get the AFR right on the dyno I was 10 pill sizes off from where I have ran it for years at the track. And that was verified by the ET slips.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Dyno day tomorrow!
[Re: moparacer]
#2803174
07/31/20 08:05 AM
07/31/20 08:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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[quote=Alchemi]I know nothing of engines at this level, but are those normal bsfc figures for this sort of monster? they look really high?
Might be some more tune left in it? [/quot
We made several pulls, adding fuel (methanol) each pull. It just kept making more power the more fuel we threw at it. The bsfc numbers said it was fat, but the power just kept going up. We finally hit a point where peak torque stayed the same.
This shows the value of dynoing a motor. I was certain i knew roughly where the tune should be. I had run a calculation on a web site that said a .117 main bypass would be close. I started at .108 and ended at .092! That means i pushed about 16 percent more fuel at it than my already supposedly rich point of .108.
Also we found and fixed oil leaks that could have cost me a weekend.
Without seeing the results of the unexpected high horse power at 7200, i could have chased the tuneup at the track and never figured it out because of false assumptions i had about what the motor wanted and how high it would make power. You will still have to tune it at the track. Different situation in the car. I just dynoed my engine last friday and to get the AFR right on the dyno I was 10 pill sizes off from where I have ran it for years at the track. And that was verified by the ET slips. We tried 33,34,35 degrees total timing. It lost a touch of power at 33 and 35. 34 is my magic number! As to tuning at the track, i agree. With alky i can start fat and get a baseline, then take away some to see where i am at. The biggest deal to me was getting the high speed lean out figured out. It starts opening at about 6,000 rpm and keeps the fuel curve very consistant all the way to 7200 rather than go fat on the top end.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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