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408 small block....which head? #2800635
07/24/20 01:36 PM
07/24/20 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 754
Longview, Texas
marvo451 Offline OP
super stock
marvo451  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 754
Longview, Texas
As the title says, which head for a street car? It’s going in a Duster for some old guy fun. Hopefully 350- 400 horsepower.

Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: marvo451] #2800663
07/24/20 03:24 PM
07/24/20 03:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 403
Colorado front range
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BcudaChris Offline
mopar
BcudaChris  Offline
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Colorado front range
Good time to be doing a small block from a head perspective!

For max OGF, I'd recommend the EQ Iron Rams if your project is Magnum based or the Indy iron heads if your going LA. They will get you where you want to be out of the box if you're in the 9-9.5:1 CR range, and with a cam that will work will well with a stock converter. And you'll be able to really spend a lot of money on tires. You can easily get more with bigger valves and more cam. They have a closed chamber and there are lots of piston options to get you to where you want. Heavier but cheaper than AL.

I did a Magnum 408 with a 230/.55/110* class cam from Hughes, a 2500 stall converter in a 904 in an E body (750DP, RPM Airgap, 1 3/4 Super Comps, 2.5" exhaust). I got the EQ's with the LA intake bolt pattern.

No real metrics to give you, but it is somewhere in between scalded dog and sodomized primate on my butt dyno readout. I've spent a lot of time drivability tuning, but da Kovid botched the club days at the track where I was going to tune this spring.

In all honesty though, you could probably get there with a good valve job on a set of either 308 or Magnum castings given your goals. If Magnum though, it is probably easiest and less brain damage and not much more money to use new castings. In my searches in the yards, I found 1 head on 6 engines that didn't have cracks between the valves on at least one cylinder.

Have fun!

Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: BcudaChris] #2800667
07/24/20 03:37 PM
07/24/20 03:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 754
Longview, Texas
marvo451 Offline OP
super stock
marvo451  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 754
Longview, Texas
Sorry for the lack of info. It is an LA block out of a 1985 truck.

Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: marvo451] #2800689
07/24/20 05:02 PM
07/24/20 05:02 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,221
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,221
nowhere
Originally Posted by marvo451
As the title says, which head for a street car? It’s going in a Duster for some old guy fun. Hopefully 350- 400 horsepower.


The old Magnum crate motors from MP, at that level, were essentially a stock long block with a single plane and a cam swap.

As mentioned, a set of magnum heads on an LA block will do, but you will need to deal with compression ratio (lack of that is) using an LA shortblock. If a rebuild was already in the cards then it's not really an issue.

Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: BcudaChris] #2800732
07/24/20 07:25 PM
07/24/20 07:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda Offline
master
70AARcuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
Originally Posted by BcudaChris
Good time to be doing a small block from a head perspective!

For max OGF, I'd recommend the EQ Iron Rams if your project is Magnum based or the Indy iron heads if your going LA. They will get you where you want to be out of the box if you're in the 9-9.5:1 CR range, and with a cam that will work will well with a stock converter. And you'll be able to really spend a lot of money on tires. You can easily get more with bigger valves and more cam. They have a closed chamber and there are lots of piston options to get you to where you want. Heavier but cheaper than AL.

I did a Magnum 408 with a 230/.55/110* class cam from Hughes, a 2500 stall converter in a 904 in an E body (750DP, RPM Airgap, 1 3/4 Super Comps, 2.5" exhaust). I got the EQ's with the LA intake bolt pattern.

No real metrics to give you, but it is somewhere in between scalded dog and sodomized primate on my butt dyno readout. I've spent a lot of time drivability tuning, but da Kovid botched the club days at the track where I was going to tune this spring.

In all honesty though, you could probably get there with a good valve job on a set of either 308 or Magnum castings given your goals. If Magnum though, it is probably easiest and less brain damage and not much more money to use new castings. In my searches in the yards, I found 1 head on 6 engines that didn't have cracks between the valves on at least one cylinder.

Have fun!



You need to check on the availability of the EQ heads.....they are not making the LA intake head anymore and the standard EQ head is a different design ....in Fact it looks actually like a Speedmaster Magnum head....and the performance is not nearly as good..


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: Sniper] #2800739
07/24/20 07:53 PM
07/24/20 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,823
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,823
Central Florida
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by marvo451
As the title says, which head for a street car? It’s going in a Duster for some old guy fun. Hopefully 350- 400 horsepower.


The old Magnum crate motors from MP, at that level, were essentially a stock long block with a single plane and a cam swap.

As mentioned, a set of magnum heads on an LA block will do, but you will need to deal with compression ratio (lack of that is) using an LA shortblock. If a rebuild was already in the cards then it's not really an issue.

As Sniper says ^

I had one of those crate engines rated at 300hp and 375tq and it was STRONG! Felt a lot more like over 400lb/ft torque! I would love to build one of those again. You can still find those specs if you search "Mopar Performance 360 crate engine" and look for the 300hp one. Smooth idle and very street pleasant, but would roast the tires if you wanted.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: 70AARcuda] #2800891
07/25/20 09:34 AM
07/25/20 09:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 350
Mequon, WI
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gzig5 Offline
enthusiast
gzig5  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 350
Mequon, WI
If the steel EQ heads aren't available, guys have had pretty good luck with the Speedmaster aluminum heads. Your goal would be easily accomplished with the non-CNC version, either bare or with valves and springs. Pay a shop to check them over and tune up the valve job and they'll flow enough to make 500hp on a proper combo. 400hp should be like falling off a log for a 408. A set of bowl ported J-heads will do that with ease.

Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: gzig5] #2800899
07/25/20 09:55 AM
07/25/20 09:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,745
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

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Posts: 20,745
A collage of whims
Iron heads at around 9.5:1 are pretty close to detonation on the street in my experience.
(That's with a reasonable cam that isn't bleeding off CR (and low-end torque).
If it doesn't have to look OEM, I'd run aluminum heads, which are better pretty much everywhere you compare.
Paint them & the intake engine color and most folks won't catch it.
It also never hurts to take some nose weight off a car.

Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: topside] #2800938
07/25/20 11:25 AM
07/25/20 11:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,823
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
Stud Muffin
larrymopar360  Offline
Stud Muffin

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,823
Central Florida
Originally Posted by topside
Iron heads at around 9.5:1 are pretty close to detonation on the street in my experience.
(That's with a reasonable cam that isn't bleeding off CR (and low-end torque).
If it doesn't have to look OEM, I'd run aluminum heads, which are better pretty much everywhere you compare.
Paint them & the intake engine color and most folks won't catch it.
It also never hurts to take some nose weight off a car.
True. And that's what I'd do (paint them block color). But then you start spending.

My MP crate 360/300hp was underrated IMO. So strong. Just not the best assembly probably. 9.0:1 compression, no problem on pump gas. Over 60k miles never an issue with the Magnum heads or anything else.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: larrymopar360] #2801003
07/25/20 01:24 PM
07/25/20 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
Ede RPM’s or one of the import equivalents.

I think you’d actually have to “try”....... to end up with less than 400hp.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 408 small block....which head? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2801666
07/27/20 11:15 AM
07/27/20 11:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 754
Longview, Texas
marvo451 Offline OP
super stock
marvo451  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 754
Longview, Texas
Oh foolish me... I thought this might be simple and relatively inexpensive to use new heads and build some excellent horsepower. About $900 for 2 EQ heads, $200+ for rockers, Then pushrods and guide plates. Then an intake. Perhaps just rebuild the LA heads and go from there.







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