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Compression ratio #2792801
07/04/20 10:59 PM
07/04/20 10:59 PM
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Medford, OR
carrman Offline OP
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Be gentle, but I have a question I'm sure many of you know the answer, but after searching I've yet to find it. I've got a '72 motor home 440 that according to the serial number was an 8.2:1 compression ratio engine. The heads are being replaced with my set of Stealth heads. I'm just trying to get a decent idea of what kind of compression those heads will give me on a stock 440 of that era. I figured since it was in stock configuration, someone would know how much of a jump the Stealth heads are worth.

Last edited by carrman; 07/04/20 11:07 PM.
Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2792804
07/04/20 11:32 PM
07/04/20 11:32 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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To start with you need to measure how far down the piston is @ TDC from the deck, most of those are less than 8 to 1 stock

Last edited by csk; 07/04/20 11:34 PM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Compression ratio [Re: CSK] #2792807
07/04/20 11:45 PM
07/04/20 11:45 PM
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Medford, OR
carrman Offline OP
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Ok, let me put it this way. How much will a Stealth head raise my compression over a stock open chamber?

Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2792813
07/05/20 12:32 AM
07/05/20 12:32 AM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted by carrman
Ok, let me put it this way. How much will a Stealth head raise my compression over a stock open chamber?


Without CCing everything & if you use the same factory thin gasket, maybe .2 ish increase in compression, could be a little more

Last edited by csk; 07/05/20 12:33 AM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2792817
07/05/20 12:47 AM
07/05/20 12:47 AM
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Oregon
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You won't know without measuring. The factory heads were not known for precision. The reported chamber size is often lower than what they actually measure. Same with the compression ratio and the deck height. Complete crap shoot unless you measure the parts.

Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2792819
07/05/20 12:51 AM
07/05/20 12:51 AM
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Memphis
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Not enough to matter is the answer you're looking for.....You need to change the pistons to make a motorhome motor a HP engine.


Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: Compression ratio [Re: CSK] #2792821
07/05/20 01:09 AM
07/05/20 01:09 AM
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Medford, OR
carrman Offline OP
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Was afraid it wouldn't be much. But, it's what I have to live with until I can build a different 440.

Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2792825
07/05/20 01:57 AM
07/05/20 01:57 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Those stock heads normally measure out around 93 to 97.0 CC, take those numbers and plug in the normal motorhome piston deck height of -.100 to-.120 with a .017 thick head gasket with a bore size of around 4.440 and see what computes.
On your deal I would look at buying the cheaper Eddy 75.0 CC heads or maybe even some small combustion chamber Speedmaster heads scope
Plug the 75.0 CC into the formula versus the 80.0 CC of the Stealth heads and go from there scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2792858
07/05/20 08:29 AM
07/05/20 08:29 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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https://diamondracing.net/p-10-compression-calculator.html Here's a good calculator once you get some numbers to plug in.

Re: Compression ratio [Re: Cab_Burge] #2792918
07/05/20 11:16 AM
07/05/20 11:16 AM
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Medford, OR
carrman Offline OP
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Well for now, I need to run the Stealths that I have. I spent my motor building budget on a 451 that blew up because of an incompetent machine shop.

Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2792924
07/05/20 11:29 AM
07/05/20 11:29 AM
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Hemi_Joel Offline
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Could you mil the Stealths to pick up some compression?


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
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Re: Compression ratio [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2792932
07/05/20 11:50 AM
07/05/20 11:50 AM
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My stealths from 2012 were 79-82 CC out of the box. This should be worth around half a point of compression depending on the exact specs of your engine if you run a steel shim gasket. If you run a standard .039 gasket it will only be worth around a quarter of a point. A .016 cut on the Stealths will get them down to the 75 CC range, which will get you about 1 full point with a steel shim and around 3/4 of a point with a .039 gasket.

I run Mr Gasket steel shims with my stealths and have not had a problem. Make sure you look closely that the gasket doesn't overhang the chambers no matter which gasket you run if you run a 4.41 bore gasket.

Measure how far in the bore your pistons are with a straight edge and some feeler gauges and you can calculate more precisely where you should be. I'm assuming you're about .140 below deck and 8:1 stock with a 90 CC chamber.


Last edited by GTX MATT; 07/05/20 11:58 AM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2792951
07/05/20 12:48 PM
07/05/20 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by carrman
Well for now, I need to run the Stealths that I have. I spent my motor building budget on a 451 that blew up because of an incompetent machine shop.
"incompetent machine shop"? Lord forbid! we know they're all motor messiah's! on a non-sarcastic note, I did some math on compression ratio vs cc's some years back and basically one cc will change the compression ratio about a tenth of a point. having a compression ratio lower than 9:1 will need just a little more than one cc for a tenth of a point, and compression ratios at around 10:1 will need slightly less than one cc for a tenth of a point in change. you'll never know the "exact" change without measuring everything but you can get close using the one cc/ tenth of a point thing.

Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2793147
07/05/20 09:16 PM
07/05/20 09:16 PM
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Eventually, I will learn this valuable skill: if I don't say anything at all, the chances of being wrong are slightly reduced.


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Re: Compression ratio [Re: polyspheric] #2793153
07/05/20 09:35 PM
07/05/20 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
Nothing you do to any head will get any quench back, the piston is too far down.


Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t hear the OP saying anything about quench.

Re: Compression ratio [Re: polyspheric] #2793169
07/05/20 10:18 PM
07/05/20 10:18 PM
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Hemi_Joel Offline
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
Nothing you do to any head will get any quench back, the piston is too far down.


Never say never! Just mill away the deck surface of the head, but leave "quench pads" that hang down to .040" above the piston. I've done it, it works surprisingly well.

quench.jpg

[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Compression ratio [Re: lewtot184] #2793205
07/06/20 01:05 AM
07/06/20 01:05 AM
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Medford, OR
carrman Offline OP
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Improper upper ring gap for the KB pistons, and didn't resize all the rods after installing ARP bolts. 7k later it blew up.

IMG_9242.JPGIMG_7350.JPG
Re: Compression ratio [Re: carrman] #2793407
07/06/20 01:12 PM
07/06/20 01:12 PM
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In my experience the typical motorhome engine pistons are .150-.155 in the hole. Stealth heads are 80cc ish.
The engines I’ve measured are more like 7.7-7.8 compression. Not the advertised 8.2.
I’m currently doing one with trick flows and had it decked .040. With a standard gasket I’m up to a whopping 8.9.
With your deal you’ll be around 8.3-8.5. If you use a thin gasket maybe a little more.
It’s something you’ll just have to live with if you don’t want to rebuild the short block.

Re: Compression ratio [Re: viperblue72] #2793524
07/06/20 05:01 PM
07/06/20 05:01 PM
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Medford, OR
carrman Offline OP
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Well, if I'm not rebuilding it once a year it will be an improvement right there.







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