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clutch flite #2792806
07/04/20 11:44 PM
07/04/20 11:44 PM
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Chicago Blackhawks
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hemicar1971 Offline OP
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Any one ever run one of these in a healthy drag car. Since the class we are going to race in has changed the rules that you must use a clutch pedal was thinking using or changing out the auto and running all the good stuff in a clutch flite. Wondered what is the weak point in this set up and if there are any aftermarket billet stuff to correct the weak points. Motor likely will be a 605 Hemi around 1200 HP 3200 lbs E Body with a ladder bar.


1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
Re: clutch flite [Re: hemicar1971] #2792808
07/05/20 12:03 AM
07/05/20 12:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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My buddy blew one apart in his high 8 second front engine dragster. Hit a guy in the stands and the trans blanket looked like ground up fiberglass. Pretty sure Norwalk got sued over it.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: clutch flite [Re: pittsburghracer] #2792822
07/05/20 01:16 AM
07/05/20 01:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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1200 horse and a Clutch-Flite? That just seems like a bad idea. runaway


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: clutch flite [Re: slantzilla] #2792829
07/05/20 02:29 AM
07/05/20 02:29 AM
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Posts: 2,644
North Carolina
sasquatch Offline
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North Carolina
hello G force........yes I would like to get a transmission please. Or lenco or others should be your next phone call.

Re: clutch flite [Re: hemicar1971] #2792851
07/05/20 07:45 AM
07/05/20 07:45 AM
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Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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The problem is getting parts. Unless you have the ability to make them, or are able to find parts in useable condition, you are going to have a tough time. Im building one for my early hemi. Doing something odd though... using an overdrive version, so the parts up front are not really available. I also plan on using a transbrake valvebody for holding the car in the beams. (Clutch pedal release switch)
Im making 3 input shafts out of 300m. The cost of the extra two is minimal.
With the internals built like a good modern race TF, there is no reason I can think of that would cause any concerns of explosion.
A well built 727 will take that power without issue. Finding an existing clutchflite input shaft that will hold up to that power will be your stumbling block.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: clutch flite [Re: hemicar1971] #2792869
07/05/20 09:21 AM
07/05/20 09:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
With a modern clutch in front of it you could soften the hit and you would be fine. Like already said finding parts would be difficult because much of that stuff is collecting dust WAY in the back of the shop. The few clutch-flites I have seen were 23 spline which is pretty small for an input shaft being sent 1000 HP twocents

Good luck up

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: clutch flite [Re: TRENDZ] #2792875
07/05/20 09:44 AM
07/05/20 09:44 AM
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Chicago Blackhawks
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hemicar1971 Offline OP
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The internals would be all A&A like the TF in the car now so the basic build is as good as it gets. Have acccess to two clutch flites and want to find out the weak points and have stuff made if needed to eliminate these points. If you ever have put all the good stuff in a TF you know it is not a cheap build but to make things last you have to spend money and have access to parts if things go wrong and they will over time, I agree if you are getting one part made that is a one off, build three of them so you are not out for the season waiting for a part. Thank you for the replies, I had heard the input shaft was one of the weak points and posted here to see if anyone had solved that issue. Might have to go back to a Liberty, wanted something that fit like the factory transmission without having to cut more of the car up and using a Clutch Flite things just fit right if it would stand up to the Power and have most of the parts to make one last.


1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
Re: clutch flite [Re: hemicar1971] #2792880
07/05/20 09:59 AM
07/05/20 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
Liberty's might be able to make you an input that will hold up shruggy


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: clutch flite [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2792903
07/05/20 10:51 AM
07/05/20 10:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
Good luck with your project!

How are you going to provide oil pressure to the transmission?

I have seen some that use fingers that engage the fingers in the clutch to drive the front pump and others that use an external oil pump. Actually a power steering pump back in the day.

I was thinking that the fingers off the front pump might have trouble with modern clutches, especially a diaphragm type.

Please keep us posted on this project, very interesting.

Re: clutch flite [Re: 340Cuda] #2792908
07/05/20 10:58 AM
07/05/20 10:58 AM
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Posts: 511
florida dade
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cesar perez Offline
mopar
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florida dade
Build a turbo 400 clutch asist

Re: clutch flite [Re: cesar perez] #2792933
07/05/20 11:53 AM
07/05/20 11:53 AM
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Posts: 289
St.Pete,Florida
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lancer493 Offline
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St.Pete,Florida
I used a B&M clutchflite in the mid '70's in a big block Nova that ran 9.80's @ 140mph.It required maintenance regularly and regular small leakage due to "shaky"seal design in input shaft/pump driveshaft area.Regularly cleaning trans blanket and scattershield.Heard of double sealing modification, but never tried it. I was building and maintaining this trans myself on a 20yr old's shoestring budget(lots of used parts).ET's lead me to believe at 3200lbs race ready, we're probably talking about 670-680hp.Used a stock Hemi front drum and rear sprag.Was riding on a handgrenade and didn't realize it! 3finger clutch to drive front pump required.Found that you had to be on top of kick down band adjustment as it took a beating.I'm sure I was at the max or over for a reliable combination.At the horsepower you are talking I think it is a poor choice, especially towards personal injuries.Check back on old articles on Motown Missle Prostock using a clutchflite, they eventually were scared to ride in that thing as they could feel it shake as it was coming apart regularly.They went back to a fourspeed.I do admit that setup was extremely fun to drive but I was only at about 60% of the h.p. that you are going to have. Save your feet! Bill

Re: clutch flite [Re: slantzilla] #2792936
07/05/20 12:07 PM
07/05/20 12:07 PM
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northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline
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Originally Posted by slantzilla
1200 horse and a Clutch-Flite? That just seems like a bad idea. runaway
Is the Bruno around anymore[Brunoglide]


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: clutch flite [Re: Clanton] #2792994
07/05/20 03:10 PM
07/05/20 03:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
There was a rule change a few years ago and I seen a few Bruno drives for sale on RJ, I still think with a good adjustable clutch set on stun would act like a lock up converter once you get the tune right on the CW up

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: clutch flite [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2793043
07/05/20 05:09 PM
07/05/20 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 289
St.Pete,Florida
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lancer493 Offline
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Thats an interesting concept of controlling a transbrake the way TRENDZ was describing in the post above. Just like launching a stick car, if I'm understanding it right. Release button activated by clutch pedal. Would require some inhibitor switch integration, preventing against untimely activation.Hemicar1971, would that be legal by the rules you are building to? It seems many convertor driven Torqueflites are staying together in vehicles with weight and horsepower similar to yours.Taking a stout clutch hit of that magnitude with the scattershield adaptor housing, front pump,and trans case being sandwiched together with those skimpy, now longer front pump bolts is asking a lot.
Something else that comes to mind is dialing in bellhousing run-out with all those pieces assembled together.I never checked that on mine,being a youngster , but realize that could have been an influence on the seepage that I continually chased.TRENDZ idea of controlling the transbrake with a clutch pedal switch while retaining a torque converter seems worth a look if it were legal for your class.Would definitely need proper electrical/interrupting system to prevent accidental reverse gear engagement as that left leg may want to step on clutch pedal at a BAD time. I am very interested to see where this thread goes as racing with a clutch pedal is ALWAYS a thrill. Bill

Re: clutch flite [Re: slantzilla] #2793051
07/05/20 05:26 PM
07/05/20 05:26 PM
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Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted by slantzilla
1200 horse and a Clutch-Flite? That just seems like a bad idea. runaway


2000 hp nitro funny cars used to run them. Lots better internal parts available nowadays.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: clutch flite [Re: John_Kunkel] #2793062
07/05/20 05:58 PM
07/05/20 05:58 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,811
South Bend
John Brown Offline
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South Bend
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
Originally Posted by slantzilla
1200 horse and a Clutch-Flite? That just seems like a bad idea. runaway


2000 hp nitro funny cars used to run them. Lots better internal parts available nowadays.


Big difference between today's tires that grip, and yesterdays tires that would slip and spin.


July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
Re: clutch flite [Re: John Brown] #2793064
07/05/20 06:06 PM
07/05/20 06:06 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Originally Posted by John Brown
Originally Posted by John_Kunkel
Originally Posted by slantzilla
1200 horse and a Clutch-Flite? That just seems like a bad idea. runaway


2000 hp nitro funny cars used to run them. Lots better internal parts available nowadays.


Big difference between today's tires that grip, and yesterdays tires that would slip and spin.



That’s the beauty of the clutch... tune the slip in the bell. Control wheel speed with chassis.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: clutch flite [Re: John_Kunkel] #2793065
07/05/20 06:10 PM
07/05/20 06:10 PM
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Posts: 5,103
Chicago Blackhawks
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hemicar1971 Offline OP
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Chicago Blackhawks
Car we are building is an old Pro Stock E Body. It had both a Liberty and a Clutch Flite in it at different times. Ran quicker with the Liberty but things were different back in 1972, but I have no idea of the internals of each transmission when in the car. Looking at running Nostalgia Pro Stock but they have gone to a Clutch pedal format. Every day of the week I would run the A&A TF, that thing in another one of the cars has been the best money spent with little to nothing being hurt. Just rebuild it when needed and everything has been nice when taking it apart. Talked about the pump on another board. Looks like the weak points are the input shaft and the pump. Do not really want to run a Lenco and sold all the the Liberty and Nash stuff a long time ago. I am listening anything else out there that might work, I kind of liked keeping it Chrysler and near to the same as some of the other cars we have. Big Cubes and HP/Torque are one thing that will destroy the Clutch Flite but a slipper clutch might solve one problem. More research needed and a call to A&A might give some answers either good or bad.

Please keep posting anything you know or think, this is a learning curve for us.


1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
Re: clutch flite [Re: lancer493] #2793070
07/05/20 06:21 PM
07/05/20 06:21 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Milwaukee WI
Originally Posted by lancer493
Thats an interesting concept of controlling a transbrake the way TRENDZ was describing in the post above. Just like launching a stick car, if I'm understanding it right.

TRENDZ idea of controlling the transbrake with a clutch pedal switch while retaining a torque converter seems worth a look if it were legal for your class.Would definitely need proper electrical/interrupting system to prevent accidental reverse gear engagement as that left leg may want to step on clutch pedal at a BAD time. I am very interested to see where this thread goes as racing with a clutch pedal is ALWAYS a thrill. Bill


I may have not been clear. I fully intend to use a clutch in combination with a trans brake valve body. No t converter. Transbrake will hold the car in the beams.(no three pedal dance) No plan to use it with the engine power loaded against the trans.
By arming a momentary switch on the shifter, with the pedal depressed. In essence, two momentary switches would need to be armed for the transbrake to be on. Release will be a switch on the pedal.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: clutch flite [Re: TRENDZ] #2793117
07/05/20 07:58 PM
07/05/20 07:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 289
St.Pete,Florida
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lancer493 Offline
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St.Pete,Florida
Sorry,thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood you, but I started to contemplate how it might work out with a converter verses a clutch.The currently redesigned race torqueflite parts aren't what worries me. It's the conversion parts that do, by design.The vehicle weight and tire technology capabilities are the killer here.As I mentioned before the Motown Missle went through a bunch of these clutchflites even trying two in tandem for better gear spread and went back to a stick trans. Even when the trans was working right, their car would not launch consistantly. With only a 2.45 first gear and depending on flywheel weight,the car would either spin the tires or bog off the line. I myself battled that same situation. Car was fast and very fun to drive but consistancy was a battle. Bill

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