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Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2791698
07/01/20 10:37 PM
07/01/20 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gygeneral
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
If you shut it off and wait 2 minutes will it restart? When hot the fuel going into the carb will go to a vapor pretty quick. One thought that could cause higher that normal intake plenum temperatures could be a improper operating heat riser valve.


No it won't start after 2 minutes today I waited 1 1/2 hour and managed to get it started but not easily. My heat riser butterfly was removed, its just there for appearance on the outside

what did you do to get it started?
clearly it seems to be a fuel problem..did you check for fuel when it didn't start again?
did you flood it?

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: larrymopar360] #2791815
07/02/20 09:12 AM
07/02/20 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by larrymopar360
Maybe the easiest solution now is to install an additional electric pump to alleviate the vapor lock.

I would also test your fuel pressure at idle, and crimp off that return line and see what happens.


This is interesting, what would that do?

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: AARCONV] #2791817
07/02/20 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AARCONV
Originally Posted by gygeneral
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
If you shut it off and wait 2 minutes will it restart? When hot the fuel going into the carb will go to a vapor pretty quick. One thought that could cause higher that normal intake plenum temperatures could be a improper operating heat riser valve.


No it won't start after 2 minutes today I waited 1 1/2 hour and managed to get it started but not easily. My heat riser butterfly was removed, its just there for appearance on the outside

what did you do to get it started?
clearly it seems to be a fuel problem..did you check for fuel when it didn't start again?
did you flood it?


To get started i waited 1.5 hours and used some quick start but i think the biggest factor was to let it cool down. When it didn't start, I did check for fuel, and as I mentioned the fuel was not in its liquid form, it came out as a fog in the carb

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2791828
07/02/20 09:31 AM
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I have my doubts it is a fuel problem. If it was fuel everyone running today,s fuel would be plagued with the same complaints. To me it could be an ignition problem or voltage loss. What starter are you running? How does it spin over? I would test the voltage at the positive side of the coil while cranking. You also should buy one of these and check the available coil output. Tester

Last edited by NITROUSN; 07/02/20 09:32 AM.
Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2791830
07/02/20 09:33 AM
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How HOT does the intake and carbs get ?

Can you touch the carbs without getting burned?

The intake heat crossover ? .. is that smoking ?

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: NITROUSN] #2791835
07/02/20 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
I have my doubts it is a fuel problem. If it was fuel everyone running today,s fuel would be plagued with the same complaints. To me it could be an ignition problem or voltage loss. What starter are you running? How does it spin over? I would test the voltage at the positive side of the coil while cranking. You also should buy one of these and check the available coil output. Tester


Running stock starter, I only tested the output at the coil without cranking, and it was 10.5v, my ballast has been modified by installing a direct wire between the terminals. Like I said I've got pertonix ingnition, anyone ever hear those malfunctioning because of heat. Electronics usually don't like heat and this is in the distributor?
How would I check coil voltage while cranking, I'm not 100% .

Last edited by gygeneral; 07/02/20 09:44 AM.
Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2791837
07/02/20 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass..
How HOT does the intake and carbs get ?

Can you touch the carbs without getting burned?

The intake heat crossover ? .. is that smoking ?


No I can't touch those parts, the heat crossover was blocked off when the engine was rebuilt, no visible sign of smoke

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2791838
07/02/20 09:46 AM
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Do you have a heat gun ?

With the crossover blocked...the carbs should be only slightly warm.

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2791850
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Originally Posted by gygeneral
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
I have my doubts it is a fuel problem. If it was fuel everyone running today,s fuel would be plagued with the same complaints. To me it could be an ignition problem or voltage loss. What starter are you running? How does it spin over? I would test the voltage at the positive side of the coil while cranking. You also should buy one of these and check the available coil output. Tester


Running stock starter, I only tested the output at the coil without cranking, and it was 10.5v, my ballast has been modified by installing a direct wire between the terminals. Like I said I've got pertonix ingnition, anyone ever hear those malfunctioning because of heat. Electronics usually don't like heat and this is in the distributor?
How would I check coil voltage while cranking, I'm not 100% .



You can start with the simplest test. See what the battery itself tests voltage wise while cranking. Then put a voltmeter on the coils positive terminal and see what the voltage is while cranking. These are two of the simplest tests that you should try. Electronics also do not like low voltage. For what its worth owning mopars for over 50 years I hate the stock starters and heat soak. Back in 1992 I went to my first mini starter and have never used the old style starter since. Night to day difference.

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2792000
07/02/20 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gygeneral
Originally Posted by AARCONV
Originally Posted by gygeneral
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
If you shut it off and wait 2 minutes will it restart? When hot the fuel going into the carb will go to a vapor pretty quick. One thought that could cause higher that normal intake plenum temperatures could be a improper operating heat riser valve.


No it won't start after 2 minutes today I waited 1 1/2 hour and managed to get it started but not easily. My heat riser butterfly was removed, its just there for appearance on the outside

what did you do to get it started?
clearly it seems to be a fuel problem..did you check for fuel when it didn't start again?
did you flood it?


To get started i waited 1.5 hours and used some quick start but i think the biggest factor was to let it cool down. When it didn't start, I did check for fuel, and as I mentioned the fuel was not in its liquid form, it came out as a fog in the carb


So it won’t start with just moving the throttle linkage , accelerator pump discharge nozzle is a mist or fog , not two steady streams of fuel from nozzle while moving gas pedal or throttle linkage ?

However when you spray starting fluid , you called it quick start , or dump some gas down the carb it starts and fires up ? Correct ?

Am I reading this right correctly , because if that’s the case

Last edited by bee1971; 07/02/20 07:30 PM.

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Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: bee1971] #2792006
07/02/20 07:40 PM
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[

So it won’t start with just moving the throttle linkage , accelerator pump discharge nozzle is a mist or fog , not two steady streams of fuel from nozzle while moving gas pedal or throttle linkage ?

However when you spray starting fluid , you called it quick start , or dump some gas down the carb it starts and fires up ? Correct ?

Am I reading this right correctly , because if that’s the case
[/quote]

Yes only started after cool down, tried it right away and couldn't get it started. I'll get some some temp readings this weekend of the carbs after a cruise. Your message wasnt finished the best part is missing

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2792017
07/02/20 08:04 PM
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Tried it right away and couldn’t get it started




Did you try starting fluid right away ? Or did you just wait hours until it cooled down

All we are trying to do here is eliminate a fuel issue ? Or next an ignition issue ?



If it doesn’t start right away next time when hot , try some starting fluid or a little gas down the carb and see if it fires up right away

Thanx

Last edited by bee1971; 07/02/20 08:05 PM.

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Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: bee1971] #2792033
07/02/20 08:38 PM
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This will be my last post as you are convinced it is a fuel issue. You need to do the two simple voltage tests. Why is that? Simple you stated you have 10.5 volts at the coil without cranking. So lets say your battery is fully charged and at 12.6 volts. 12.6 minus the 10.5 gives you a voltage drop of 2.1 volts. Now if you crank it and the voltage drops to lets say 9.5 volts. With your already 2.1 loss with out cranking should equate to this 9.5 minus the 2.1 equals 7.4 volts at the coil. Pertronix systems need more than 7.4 volts. These numbers may or may not be relevant unless you do the tests.

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: NITROUSN] #2792036
07/02/20 08:47 PM
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No
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
This will be my last post as you are convinced it is a fuel issue. You need to do the two simple voltage tests. Why is that? Simple you stated you have 10.5 volts at the coil without cranking. So lets say your battery is fully charged and at 12.6 volts. 12.6 minus the 10.5 gives you a voltage drop of 2.1 volts. Now if you crank it and the voltage drops to lets say 9.5 volts. With your already 2.1 loss with out cranking should equate to this 9.5 minus the 2.1 equals 7.4 volts at the coil. Pertronix systems need more than 7.4 volts. These numbers may or may not be relevant unless you do the tests.


I did not forget about your suggestion, I will do the test this weekend and report back. Thanks

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2794479
07/08/20 07:33 PM
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Had a chance oover the last couple days to work on this.
First I had my battery tested it was 12.77V and CCA 693
Changed to a Pertronix coil to match my unit in the distributor
Did some voltage test when cold Battery was 12.8, Battery while cranking 11.0, voltage at coil 10.3, voltage at coil while cranking 8.5
Confirmed my clutch fan works.
So on July 6 this is what happened:
When cold got it started with a lot of pumping
After a cruise I opened the hood to let heat out
After 15 min, it started no help required
After 45 min, it started no help required.
Temp of carb bowl was 140, intake 180 after 45 min

On July 8, today, When cold , got it started but a lot of pumping
After a cruise, I left the hood down
After 5 min it started with no help
After 20 min did not start , did some temp readings, carb bowl 145,intake 175, coil 165,fuel line just before entering the carb 178 (this seem high)
After 1 hour did not start
After 3 hours, started with no help

I'm now thinking to insulate the fuel line from pump to carb, I hate to do this, but I will see if this helps.

Any other suggestions, someone mentioned to block the return fuel line, I would like to know the reason for that, I'm willing to try anything

Thanks

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2794491
07/08/20 08:19 PM
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Quote
voltage at coil while cranking 8.5
This is dangerously low. If your battery is in fact cranking at 11 volts and you have 8.5 on the coil that is a 2.5 volt loss. You have to remember when you are seeing this 8.5 volts the car is cold and the car is capable of starting at that time. You need to check it when it does not want to start. I will bet it is less. You could do two things. Wire a volt meter to the coil so you can monitor it in the car when it is acting up. Or make a jumper wire up to jump from the battery direct to the coil. You also could check the battery voltage when it is acting up on the hot no start. Pertronix needs a minimum of 8 volts or it is not going to fire.

Last edited by NITROUSN; 07/08/20 08:20 PM.
Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: NITROUSN] #2794493
07/08/20 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Quote
voltage at coil while cranking 8.5
This is dangerously low. If your battery is in fact cranking at 11 volts and you have 8.5 on the coil that is a 2.5 volt loss. You have to remember when you are seeing this 8.5 volts the car is cold and the car is capable of starting at that time. You need to check it when it does not want to start. I will bet it is less. You could do two things. Wire a volt meter to the coil so you can monitor it in the car when it is acting up. Or make a jumper wire up to jump from the battery direct to the coil. You also could check the battery voltage when it is acting up on the hot no start. Pertronix needs a minimum of 8 volts or it is not going to fire.


I see what you mean, I will do the same checks when hot after a cruise ( and it doesn't start) and see what the readings are. What ground should I use for the meter, an engine ground or the negative side of the coil

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2794496
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Engine ground is fine. So positive side of the coil and a good engine ground. I have bought the small digital voltmeters off e-bay for like 6 bucks shipped.

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: NITROUSN] #2794533
07/08/20 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Engine ground is fine. So positive side of the coil and a good engine ground. I have bought the small digital voltmeters off e-bay for like 6 bucks shipped.


Ok thanks, that's what I did.

Re: Car won't start when hot [Re: gygeneral] #2795198
07/10/20 03:12 PM
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Today I made up some long leads so I can put the voltmeter on the front seat.

The initial startup when cold was good, went for a ride, came back kept the hood closed. After 5 min, it started, after 10 min it started, after 50 min did not want to start like previously. The volts at the coil while standing was 10.4 and while cranking it was 9.0.

So has anyone ever hear of the module inside the distributor going bad because of heat? I think that would be the next test.

So its 4:30, 3 hrs since the ride , it started.

I'm going out tonight to get a spark plug tester and test it cold and when it won't start.

Last edited by gygeneral; 07/10/20 04:36 PM.
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