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Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: moparAL] #1274299
07/31/12 02:04 AM
07/31/12 02:04 AM
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moparAL Offline OP
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Hotrod city garage, picture 4, of internal baffling. I don't think going to a external efi sump tank in California is legal. I don't want to go with a fuel cell either. This had a lot of features that some of the real big buck tanks have and are cheaper. It is also is made of aluminum. What issues, if any, might a aluminum tank might have? Any more thoughts about this tank?

7314786-38726509.jpg (131 downloads)
Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: moparAL] #1274300
08/12/12 04:00 PM
08/12/12 04:00 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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How about buying a new stock tank, cutting a big access hole in the top and welding in a bowl shaped baffle/sump around the area where the stock fuel pickup draws it's fuel from? After you weld the top back on the tank it would look bone stock from the outside. You would of course need to run an external in-line EFI pump but overall this looks like the most straightforward option to me.

Re: EFI Gas tank options for handling? [Re: moparAL] #1274301
08/18/12 03:39 PM
08/18/12 03:39 PM
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Marlboro, NY, USA
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Rick_Ehrenberg Offline
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Not that I've done this (except in my fantasies...), but:

Stock Mopar '90s-'00s pumps are 2-stage, keeping a reservoir filled ('prox 3 qts.) then pumping pressure from that. If only there were an easy way to mount one of these in a muscle-era tank, we'd be set!

Ideas...?

Rick

Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1274302
08/22/12 12:28 PM
08/22/12 12:28 PM
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Borden, Indiana, U.S.A.
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That is exactly what I did on my '67 Charger. I used two common bread pans for internal sump boxes (I have dual pumps) and installed trap doors on the all four sides. In practice, I should have fabricated boxes with much taller sides, as at a quarter tank it will starve for fuel pretty readily. However, the basic idea of modifying a stock tank has worked very well. I used JIC (37 degree flare = AN) bulkhead fittings with seals and wire passthrough fittings obtained from ATL for elctrical and fuel line plumbing.

Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: wrenchinrandy] #1274303
08/22/12 02:41 PM
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moparAL Offline OP
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I appreciate all the ideas, but other than Ricks idea (which no one has done with a older Mopar tank yet), the small external sump tank, double pump system, I haven't seen a reasonable priced system and I would not use that on the street! With all the Auto X members I thought you would have solved this issue. Ricks tanks has this tank called a Vaporworx tank. It is stainless inside and out, lots of baffling, and get this multiple fuel pickups. In the Vaporworx ad Mary Pozzi (Auto x driver) tested this tank with much success. But it is stupid, silly, crazy, expensive!

Re: EFI Gas tank options for handling? [Re: moparAL] #2785747
06/15/20 02:54 PM
06/15/20 02:54 PM
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Georgia
72440CUDA Offline
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I wanted to re-visit this post instead of starting a new one (I don't mean to hijack).

What is everyone using for a vent system?

I currently have a Hot Rod City Garage aluminum baffled tank (now out of business?) with an external electric fuel pump. I originally had a vent line routed into the frame rail and it just pissed fuel out (NOT GOOD!) So for the mean time, I've just capped it off (not good either!).

I've been doing some research... want an operating vent as to not cavitate/blow out tank seams with sealed filler cap so it doesn't spill fuel out the back, and I don't want the garage to fill with fumes.

Current plan is to run a vertically mounted in-line roll over valve to a II Much vent mounted in the truck (under the package tray?) at a level higher than the filler neck, with the inlet/outlet mounted externally. Other option is to run a Newton TPV6 valve. Should have about $300 tied into it when all said and done.

Thoughts?


II-Much-Fuel-Vent-SM-bracket-photo-Mike-Snyder.jpg
Last edited by 72440CUDA; 06/15/20 03:08 PM.
Re: EFI Gas tank options for handling? [Re: 72440CUDA] #2785824
06/15/20 07:29 PM
06/15/20 07:29 PM
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I'm not familiar with the Newton setup. I have seen the II Much vent system before. I think the key is what II Much has in their instructions about having a 10% volume vapor dome in the tank. Your custom built tank might not have been equipped with a vapor dome. I've run into this same problem when using fuel cells in a passenger car. The typical fuel cell doesn't have a vapor dome so if the fuel cell is full it will push fuel out the vent on a hot day. The chassis builder I work with has used expansions tanks in the past to solve the issue. I'm a little surprised that the fuel cell mfgs haven't figured out a solution. The shop that fabricated your tank should've had some sort of vapor solution but if they didn't you'll have to work around it. Take a look at your tank design and see if there is any sort of a vapor dome or if the tank can be filled to the brim with no space left for expansion. If that is the case you might need to add an expansion tank for the vapor and then hook the vent into the expansion tank.

Re: EFI Gas tank options for handling? [Re: 72440CUDA] #2786047
06/16/20 03:00 PM
06/16/20 03:00 PM
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Oregon
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Boyd welding has a slick little adapter plate that allows you to use a factory Ford vent on a custom tank. You could use the Boyd vent plate on a custom expansion tank. Build a one gallon expansion tank and plumb it to the existing vent on your tank and then use the Ford vent on the expansion tank. Or if your existing tank has a vapor dome in it then you could use the Ford vent right in the vapor dome.

https://fueltankparts.com/collectio...ucts/ford-oem-vent-weld-in-bung-aluminum

Last edited by AndyF; 06/16/20 03:03 PM.
Re: EFI Gas tank options for handling? [Re: AndyF] #2786702
06/18/20 09:10 AM
06/18/20 09:10 AM
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Georgia
72440CUDA Offline
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Thanks for the advice, definitely something to consider up

My tank doesn't have a vapor dome, just (if I remember correctly) a 1/4" NTP vent bung on the side at the top left corner. I was looking at something like this overflow tank to help with expansion:

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/51145/10002/-1

Possibly mount at an incline up between the two rear shock mounts, or vertically in the truck followed by an in-line rollover valve (mounted straight up and down) thinking it will help with fuel slosh (weight of the fuel pushing against a check ball) but still allow fumes to vent and air to enter as the fuel is consumed. Finally, having the vent line run up into the trunk as high up as I can get it (under package tray, above the level of the filler cap) and then back down terminating under the trunk to some type of filter, all the while making sure there isn't a low spot that could collect fuel and act as a "trap" that would cause the system to burp. work

Re: EFI Gas tank options for handling? [Re: moparAL] #2786784
06/18/20 12:51 PM
06/18/20 12:51 PM
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Hydromat or a swinging pick-up.

Re: EFI Gas tank options for handling? [Re: 72440CUDA] #2786847
06/18/20 02:44 PM
06/18/20 02:44 PM
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If the tank doesn't have a vapor dome then you will just have to remember to not fill it full. Or only fill it full when you are driving somewhere. The gas comes out of the ground tank at 60 degrees so on a hot day the gas will expand once it gets into the tank. Without an expansion tank the gas will just push out the vent. I ran into this same issue when I had a fuel cell in a race car. The fuel cell was just a box with no expansion area. I filled it up on a cool day and then on the next hot day I had a mess when gas started to push out the vent tube.

Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: moparAL] #2787929
06/21/20 10:42 PM
06/21/20 10:42 PM
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Originally Posted by moparAL
Hotrod city garage, picture 4, of internal baffling. I don't think going to a external efi sump tank in California is legal. I don't want to go with a fuel cell either. This had a lot of features that some of the real big buck tanks have and are cheaper. It is also is made of aluminum. What issues, if any, might a aluminum tank might have? Any more thoughts about this tank?


hope i'm not too late for ya - i have one - first the seal leaked as they used the wrong seal for gas (go figure) - would not send me a new one - had to make one up from the local parts store and cut out my own gasket - then had nothing but fuel issues spilling out of the tank - problem is the fuel pump is below the the top of the tank so it always wants to siphon - I had to weld a bung on top of the tank and on the filler neck and install a one way valve in it and add a seperate air vent with a filter on it - the tank is cheap and for these reasons...I bought through some one else (mopardan?) but it was built by hotrodcity garage
I should also mention I used a hydromat when I last took out the pump

Last edited by dangina; 06/21/20 10:44 PM.
Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: dangina] #2789951
06/27/20 04:40 PM
06/27/20 04:40 PM
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Los Osos, Ca
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CKessel Offline
mopar
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Anybody given any thought to using an evap cystem from a late model vehicle, say 2000 and newer?


Carl Kessel
Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: CKessel] #2789967
06/27/20 04:59 PM
06/27/20 04:59 PM
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Oregon
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Yes I've thought of that a few times. I even researched some of the parts needed. The link I posted above is one solution since it provides a weld in bung for a late model evap system valve. I was going to go this way on the tank I'm building for my Duster but I ended up going mostly old school with a large vent crossover tube and then a couple of small vacuum line breathers.

Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: AndyF] #2790292
06/28/20 12:58 PM
06/28/20 12:58 PM
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Los Osos, Ca
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CKessel Offline
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I'm going to check out the components that GM uses for their E-ROD packages. Since those are a retrofit to older chassis, that may be an easy route to take.


Carl Kessel
Re: EFI Gas tank options? [Re: CKessel] #2791886
07/02/20 11:26 AM
07/02/20 11:26 AM
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Posts: 52,159
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
I use to design fuel tanks and tested them.. the first EFI car was the Imperial the group that did the
injection didnt pay any attention to being low on fuel.. once they seen this issue we were given the
project to fix it.. after a few weaks we came up with a can inside the tank.. over time we came up
with a plastic reservoir in ALL production cars and trucks... still in all.. we called it a swirl can that
would use the return fuel to keep the can full.. the pump is inside the can and will drain the tank
to about 250 cc or less.. just look at the inside of a newer car or truck
EDIT
I also did a few company road race sponsored tanks.. they use to have a issue of running out of fuel
so we put 4 pick ups in the tanks we built(one in each corner) being that these were carb system they
never had a problem.. these tanks HAD to look like a production part.. we had to seam weld the seams
on them
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 07/02/20 11:32 AM.
Re: EFI Gas tank options for handling? [Re: moparAL] #2793639
07/06/20 08:18 PM
07/06/20 08:18 PM
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Oregon
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I'm in the process of having a custom tank built for my Duster. The Duster is more of a Pro Street car than a road racer or an autocrosser but some of the same ideas would work. I'd use the same design for a road race car if I was building one of them. I decided to go with a 20 gallon tank so I could extend the cruising range a bit. I'm mounting the tank on the shelf between the wheel tubs to free up some trunk space. I'm going to have a set of baffles welded inside the tank to reduce slosh, and I'm having them put a 1 gallon sump in the rear corner of the tank. The Holley EFI pump will be slightly modified so it will drop down into the sump. I'm also working on a vent design that should work properly in all conditions. What I've found is that most fuel cells do not have a good vent design. They just stick a roll over valve in one corner even though that design will not work with a full tank or when the car is sloshing fuel into that corner. Here are a couple of mock up photos.

DSC_4228 (Large).JPGDSC_4230 (Large).JPG
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