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Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse #2783220
06/09/20 01:24 PM
06/09/20 01:24 PM
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dragon slayer Offline OP
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Does any one have a list of the OEM correct bolts for the bell housing to engine. Especially the 3/8 ones. Looking for head markings and length. I am not sure the AMK kit is correct. Seems to me the 3 short may have small shoulders and the one long is closer to 1 3/4" not 1 1/2". But not sure. I assume several different head markings, and where they all Grade 5? I have seen some that look right but no G5 has marks. Thanks,

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: dragon slayer] #2783231
06/09/20 01:51 PM
06/09/20 01:51 PM
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Wheatfield, NY
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Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: Cuda340] #2783419
06/09/20 09:28 PM
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dragon slayer Offline OP
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I guess you did not see the part about AMK. Those are not oem original. I call to ask Brewers also, and they could not help. I was really surprised. I have done web searches and you can find info on Automatics, not much on 4 speed OEM original. May have to call passions. Maybe they can help.

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: dragon slayer] #2783422
06/09/20 09:38 PM
06/09/20 09:38 PM
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South San Francisco, Ca
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[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: dragon slayer] #2783424
06/09/20 09:40 PM
06/09/20 09:40 PM
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WV
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Little Detroit Offline
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oem originals ? you mean used ? Amk purchased a lot of old stock when theses companies went belly up , as well as the trade mark rights, In my book that makes it Oem correct, they make there bolts to same specs and correct head markings . now they may not make every bolt needed , but what they sell is OEM correct since its same specs and they own trade mark rights.

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: Little Detroit] #2783530
06/10/20 07:45 AM
06/10/20 07:45 AM
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dragon slayer Offline OP
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Yes and no. I am not knocking either. But as example, the Automatic to block kit for Big block has 2 7/16-14 2" long bolts. An original car had 1 2" and 1 13/4" long. Look at the ears on the block, one is thinner by 1/4". Does this matter mechanically hell no. But if you are shooting for truly OEM correct. Additionally they seem to only carry one head marking. There seems to be differences depending on year what the markings would be.

I have box of original bolts but all mixed by diameter of bolt. None of the head marks or length fully match AMK kit for bellhouse 4 spd Big Block.

So yes I would like to see some known originals for a 68-70 cast bell housing.

It is complicated because many of these 3/8" bolts are similar to intake and exhaust manifold bolts both Mopar and other like GM/Ford. Nobody really cared in the 70/80 about any of this.

If you look at the bh and block. Mount surface is 9/16" at top, 15/16 for long bolt. Depth of hole in block is 1 1/16". There are machinist formulas for thread engagement in cast iron. Some of those kit bolts seem to be short some what. Would it really matter, no unless you over torqued a bolt.

I am just interest in seeing original bolts. Are they M, TR, H, Triangle? What length.

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: dragon slayer] #2783752
06/10/20 03:31 PM
06/10/20 03:31 PM
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Akron, ohio
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I bought a lot of correct looking bolts from Hoovers, Rob shipped fast and I'm happy with the quality.

https://www.hooverautoparts.com/

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: 76orangewagon] #2783771
06/10/20 04:15 PM
06/10/20 04:15 PM
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541 slobovia
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What kind of finish is this?

Capture.JPG
Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: A990] #2783814
06/10/20 06:00 PM
06/10/20 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by A990
What kind of finish is this?
Black phosphate bolts, looks like silver cad on the washers



If your buying reproduction hardware, No matter who from. THEY ALL come from AMK

Are they truly OE correct for every car??? , absolutely not. But short of buying used , they are the only game in town

As for the OP , I know for sure the original lower bolts were different length and dont remember head markings 100% ( hell to get old )
But the best I can remember they were different side to side and were not the same as the 3/8" ones along the upper perimeter of the bell hsg

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: gtx6970] #2783987
06/11/20 08:28 AM
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Here is what I am looking at. The Larger 7/16 limited head markings, the shorter 3/8 plenty of choices, but again they match to intake and exhaust manifolds too.

38long.jpg38short.jpg716longshort.jpg20200611_081113_resized.jpg
Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: A990] #2784433
06/12/20 02:08 AM
06/12/20 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by A990
What kind of finish is this?

I've own, race and work on a bunch of original 4 speed and automatic BB cars from 1962 to 1970, none of them had star flat lock washers from the factory on the engines or trannys, NONE of them tsk


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: Cab_Burge] #2784489
06/12/20 09:06 AM
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Another case of were the restoration group moved to an easier to get part. But I have seen a flat tooth type lock washer on the 4 Speed bolts to the bellhousing. Not star type though.

Yes automatics are captured conical washers tranny to block, with a unique hex head. I believe the correct length are 7/16-14 2" and 1 3/4, 3/8-16 1 7/16" and 3 at 1 5/16" for the automatics. The odd 1 7/16" is based on the trans housing having a thicker section at the one 3/8" hole above the starter. The difference in 7/16 length is one ear of the block is thicker by 1/4".

Same reason the 4 speed bell housing has one longer 3/8" bolt.

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: Cab_Burge] #2784621
06/12/20 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by A990
What kind of finish is this?

I've own, race and work on a bunch of original 4 speed and automatic BB cars from 1962 to 1970, none of them had star flat lock washers from the factory on the engines or trannys, NONE of them tsk

I’ll add Cab that all of the 3/8 bolts where the same length, a long and short 7/16. Almost definitely sure they used the same bolts auto or manual. And all had the captive washers (bolts threaded the whole length)

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: cudaman1969] #2784792
06/12/20 10:03 PM
06/12/20 10:03 PM
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Cudaman, Your not correct. The cast bell house used what is shown. Measure your bellhousing bolt hole thickness 4spd or auto. The hole above the starter has a much thicker area requiring a longer 3/8" bolt. The 727 used the captured washers style with the cup ridge on the head fully threaded, not the same for a 4spd in a cast bellhousing. Now 71 up where aluminum bell house used I am not sure. Here is the tooth washer that was used on the bolts that mated transmission to bell house (NOT bellhousing to block). I have seen them on cast 4 speed bolts. That transmission bolt is another style also. Too much of anything will work, and folks mismatched stuff in the day. But we are talking about three different bolts right now. Auto to block, bellhouse to block, and 4spd trans to bellhousing. All three are different styles bolts and washers at least 70 and down.

If you use a shorter 3/8 bolt (1 1/4) in that hole above the starter you have insufficient thread to meet design criteria for thread engagement in a blind cast iron hole and you risk pulling threads out of the block if you over torque it..

20200612_214701_resized.jpg20200612_214800_resized.jpg
Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: dragon slayer] #2785656
06/15/20 11:31 AM
06/15/20 11:31 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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Originally Posted by dragon slayer
Cudaman, Your not correct. The cast bell house used what is shown. Measure your bellhousing bolt hole thickness 4spd or auto. The hole above the starter has a much thicker area requiring a longer 3/8" bolt. The 727 used the captured washers style with the cup ridge on the head fully threaded, not the same for a 4spd in a cast bellhousing. Now 71 up where aluminum bell house used I am not sure. Here is the tooth washer that was used on the bolts that mated transmission to bell house (NOT bellhousing to block). I have seen them on cast 4 speed bolts. That transmission bolt is another style also. Too much of anything will work, and folks mismatched stuff in the day. But we are talking about three different bolts right now. Auto to block, bellhouse to block, and 4spd trans to bellhousing. All three are different styles bolts and washers at least 70 and down.

If you use a shorter 3/8 bolt (1 1/4) in that hole above the starter you have insufficient thread to meet design criteria for thread engagement in a blind cast iron hole and you risk pulling threads out of the block if you over torque it..

Has been 40+ years since the stick bellhousing takeoff but I can’t remember any star washers. I do have an aluminum 70 Hemi bell I’ll check for hole thickness later.
The hole above starter is deeper but all had captive washers, no stars marks on any hole. Could see the paint circles

Last edited by cudaman1969; 06/16/20 02:59 PM.
Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: cudaman1969] #2788015
06/22/20 10:11 AM
06/22/20 10:11 AM
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70440+6bbl Offline
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Here are the original bellhousing to block bolts from a ‘70 V code cuda (B18 SPD).

9602FD79-E321-4F2E-85CA-AD3971C59F9B.jpeg9C66B733-359C-4028-BAAB-E6BAE633CEAE.jpeg

'70 Super Bee 440 6 pack 4-spd 4.10 Dana N96 EB5
‘70 Super Bee 440 6 pack 4-spd 3.54 Dana FC7
‘70 ‘Cuda 440+6bbl 4-spd 3.54 Dana N96 EB5 V1W

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: 70440+6bbl] #2788019
06/22/20 10:13 AM
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And here are the transmission to bellhousing bolts and star washers

B76D69FE-9E5E-4DB7-AC75-0837B1FCA5A1.jpeg

'70 Super Bee 440 6 pack 4-spd 4.10 Dana N96 EB5
‘70 Super Bee 440 6 pack 4-spd 3.54 Dana FC7
‘70 ‘Cuda 440+6bbl 4-spd 3.54 Dana N96 EB5 V1W

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: 70440+6bbl] #2788140
06/22/20 03:59 PM
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dragon slayer Offline OP
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Thank you. What is the symbol in the middle of the shorter 7/16" bolt can not see it. Also what is the longest H bolt length?. 1 5/8 or 1 3/4"

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: dragon slayer] #2788530
06/23/20 04:51 PM
06/23/20 04:51 PM
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I'll measure them this week


'70 Super Bee 440 6 pack 4-spd 4.10 Dana N96 EB5
‘70 Super Bee 440 6 pack 4-spd 3.54 Dana FC7
‘70 ‘Cuda 440+6bbl 4-spd 3.54 Dana N96 EB5 V1W

Re: Correct bolts on 4 spd bellhouse [Re: 70440+6bbl] #2789498
06/26/20 02:08 PM
06/26/20 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 70440+6bbl
Here are the original bellhousing to block bolts from a ‘70 V code cuda (B18 SPD).

Are you claiming these are used on all manual trans bell housing?

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