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318 ideas #2786503
06/17/20 05:55 PM
06/17/20 05:55 PM
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ILLINOIS
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volaredon Offline OP
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I have a 78 Fury 2 door hardtop, 53k original miles, I'm the 2nd owner, have had the car since 2007 when I got it with 38k. 904, 2.76 rear. stone, dead stock. only mod is true duals, 2-1/4" all the way back.
318 2 bbl, still has (surprisingly) functional Lean Burn in place. carb is Holley 2280 2 barrel, as came original.
I want to wake it up a bit, improve off the line pep. I have on hand a set of '302 heads, fresh from the machine shop. the "heart chamber" ones. currently a slug on takeoff but loves to cruise at 70 MPH.
I also have a stock 360 cam, almost dead ringer for a COMP 252. I have had stock 318s in other vehicles, with the same gearing that seemed more peppy.
I also have a few aftermarket alum. dual plane intakes. Among them a Performer (not "RPM") and an Offenhauser. Want to retain the original RV2 air compressor. and I have a few different TQs and AFB/Edelbrocks, among those a 500 CFM and a 600 (625?)
I am not saying "I have to" run that cam, but an identical cam really woke up my former 83 D250's 318. but would like to utilize other of what I have on hand.

I did put a T chain (Edelbrock true roller) on about 8-10K ago because I was "in there anyway" only 4 bolts away from a T chain in replacing the original water pump. T chain was a "just because" replacement. Lean Burn WILL go away, I have a few stock aftermarket (brand new) 4 pin Mopar ECU's, but not "against" trying an HEI as long as I have to swap "something else" in place of the Lean Burn brain and distributor. (I think I have a smallblock electronic distributor or 3 around here still)

3 season daily driver/cruiser. I wouldn't be against buying a different cam, but among the rest of my stash I want to "use what I have already" if at all possible. NOT interested in any sort of EFI conversion.
Never was, never gonna be a "race car". but I want to be able to let my wife take it to work when she wants..... as she sometimes does now.
would a COMP 260 be too "big" in a stock 318 with the '302 heads? can put my hands on one of those readily as well.....

thoughts? Suggestions? thinking of doing the Power Tour this year, did so in this car as it presently sits/ in both '09 and '10. would like "improvements" in place by then (end of Aug)

for our purposes and considering its low orig miles I am content with keeping this 318 in place. no engine swaps.

Re: 318 ideas [Re: volaredon] #2786527
06/17/20 06:43 PM
06/17/20 06:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,822
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
Stud Muffin
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Central Florida
Sure would hate to pull the heads on that original low miles good running and bullet proof 318. I'm sure compression is hurting performance some though. I don't think just a intake/four barrel swap alone is going to breath enough.

Do you think a gear swap to 3.2's would awaken it enough for you, and still keep the rpm's low enough for highway runs for you? I know, not really what you're asking.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: 318 ideas [Re: volaredon] #2786543
06/17/20 07:19 PM
06/17/20 07:19 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I’m not sure a set of unmodified 302’s are worth the effort.

Maybe the 302’s with a little tweaking.
Spring upgrade
Isky 256/262-110 cam
Std Performer

2.94 or 3.23 gears

Factory high stall converter(if it doesn’t have one now)


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 318 ideas [Re: fast68plymouth] #2786565
06/17/20 07:51 PM
06/17/20 07:51 PM
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n.e. pa.
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65rbdodge Offline
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I say go for it! 302’s yes, bigger cam yes, 4bbl intake and carb of your choice, yes. Check out the small block section on forabodysonly.com lots of good 318 info there. Lots of love for 318’s there

Re: 318 ideas [Re: 65rbdodge] #2786583
06/17/20 08:27 PM
06/17/20 08:27 PM
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A collage of whims
topside Offline
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Sounds like some reasonable mods that should wake the thing up.
Ditching the Lean Burn for a good setup with a good advance curve & vac advance, also good.
The 2.76 gears aren't helping 0-60, especially if you have a tall tire, but on the highway, they're nice.

I've probably owned at least 15 383 cars, and some were just peppier in stock form than others; most all had 3.23 gears and were pretty similar.
Odometer reading didn't seem to be much of a factor, 22K to 130K; go figure.
Just how the tolerances stack up, I guess.

Re: 318 ideas [Re: 65rbdodge] #2786592
06/17/20 08:47 PM
06/17/20 08:47 PM
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Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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I have a stock 360 headed 318 with the Hughes 5.2 whiplash roller/comp 901-16 springs. I have ran this in a 318 with the #302 heads also with good results. I have a bone stock lo-po 440 with the 440 whiplash and it is a beast on the street but well mannered in traffic.

IMHO, I would leave it bone stock as is only swapping out the springs & cam. I would use a Hughes flat tappet whiplash 318 cam. it will work with stock low comp/verter/gears/wakes it right up and sound good. cheap and very stock friendly.

there are a few tricks to make a stockish 318 run good. I just did one up for my son but it is a little better being a roller cam block.

for free HP we home ported the #302 heads and open the bowls up and cleaned the runners up a little. gasket matched the intake ports, then open up the exhaust runner and bowl.

for the biggest gain we did the 3 angle VJ 60*/45*/30* and then did a 30* back cut on all the stock valves. hit the tops of the guides to remove about .050 for a little extra clearance on the high lift roller cam.

full groove main bearings to oil rods full time with a set of .030 pistons turned backwards for piston offset change.

drill oil pump, #5 main cap to 1/2" and gasket matched/blend turns, drilled block oil passages to 1/2" added 4 extra holes in the filter plate, drill feed to oil galley to 9/32, drill 1/16 hole in galley plug and cam thrust plate for full time oil to chain. using a chain tensioner/stock link chain.

recurved dist with Mr.Gasket mopar spring kit 925-B both springs all in by 1200 rpm (this is the biggest bang for the buck as the only change to a stock 318 and where to start tuning.

went with the Hughes 5.9 roller whiplash with comp 901-16 springs on this one because we like the 318 roller whiplash but wish it sounded a little more like my 440 does. I think it is going to be what we want. we can always swap on a set of 360 heads with it.

best part is a comp 901 springs drops on with stock seals retainers/works with the whiplash cam specs/spring & cam change with heads on engine.

a weekend with gasket set/springs/cam and your done and cruzing.

Re: 318 ideas [Re: scratchnfotraction] #2786649
06/18/20 12:20 AM
06/18/20 12:20 AM
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Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Ditch the lean burn, good ignition with a recurved distributor, maybe advance that 360 cam a few degrees or talk to fast68plymouth about the cam he recommended. If you have a well sorted TQ, put that on a Performer but that Edelbrock 600 would work too. The TQ will be more fuel mileage friendly IMHO.

I would think a Magnum head would be the better stock head but would need different pushrods I think. Fast68plymouth again would be the guy to ask.

An A500 or A518 overdrive with a 3.91 would give it the biggest kick in the pants even as it is. If overdrive isn't an option, a 3.23 gear will wake it up considerably compared to the 2.76 and still keep up with traffic.

Kevin

Re: 318 ideas [Re: volaredon] #2786651
06/18/20 12:35 AM
06/18/20 12:35 AM
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Las Vegas, NV
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chargerbr549 Offline
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Las Vegas, NV
Another option to help with the 318 is using a 80-1/2 and newer 904 transmission ( I believe they were called a 999?) they have a lower first and second gear and help the 318 get moving a little better, it should be an easy bolt in swap. I had an 82 Mirada with the 999 trans and 2.94 gears with an 88 318 factory roller cam engine and 302 heads with edelbrock performer intake and a thermoquad carb and that actually ran very well, it was no slouch and pulled around 20mpg pretty easy.

Re: 318 ideas [Re: scratchnfotraction] #2786692
06/18/20 08:50 AM
06/18/20 08:50 AM
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ILLINOIS
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volaredon Offline OP
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These 302s are fresh from the machine shop, 16 new valves, shaved about 0.008 to square them up, I forget how many new guides.
Didn't say anything about whether they did a 3 angle VJ or not. I can pull them back down and do some mild porting, basically clean up the casting fuzz, if they didn't. I have always been leery of 360 heads on a 318 as most 360 Chambers are bigger than 318 Chambers to begin with, meaning even lower compression which seems counter productive. The 302 heads are supposed to be smaller chamber than the original heads (which are 163 castings if I remember right)

Re: 318 ideas [Re: volaredon] #2786714
06/18/20 09:41 AM
06/18/20 09:41 AM
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Sniper Offline
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most of the guys pooh poohing the 302 heads have never run the 302 heads. You can take that advice if you want to.

I don't generally get too wild with my 318's, especially if the wife wants to be able to just jump in it and go. So the stock 340 cam, or a close equivalent, is about as crazy as I get there. Put one in my 87 roller 318 and it was a nice improvement. Your 302 heads are fresh and done, just run them.

Since you want to keep the RV 2, the only non-stock 4bbl intake I know of that fits the RV2 and has the mounting boss for the brace is the Performer, which you already have. Run it.

Ran the MP electronic ignition kit in it as well.

I pretty much ran the combo above with an Edelbrock 1406 carb for about 100k miles and it was nice, mid 20's mpg if I drove reasonable (2.94 Sg rear, A833 trans, P255/60r15 rear tires, 87 Diplomat). Tried it with a 1407 and while the top speed went up the MPG went down. I went back to the smaller carb and this was my daily driver 75 miles each way to work, 5 days a week plus I taught my daughter to drive with it.

Nice balanced package with more fun but not temperamental at all.

Re: 318 ideas [Re: volaredon] #2786717
06/18/20 09:51 AM
06/18/20 09:51 AM
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Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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I agree 360 heads seems like a step backwards but trust me it makes up for it breathing mid and top end. 1.88-1.60 valves are much more 318 friendly than the 2.02-1.60 x heads when swapping them on a 318.

another trick is to up the 1.50 318 head exhaust valve for the 1.60 valves. I did a set of #302 heads with 1.88-1.60 valves but IMHO it needed a better porting job and flow bench to get them to full potential.

yea just clean up the ports a little, open the bowls up and see if they back cut the valves. I do some back cut on the valve with a bench drill press and a file when home porting but to have the shop do it on a valve machine is awesome and well worth the bang it gives.

tip** use some duct tap on the valve seat when grinding the bowls open in case you slip with stone or cutter. help dull the mistake when it happens.

Re: 318 ideas [Re: scratchnfotraction] #2786733
06/18/20 10:25 AM
06/18/20 10:25 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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dial in dist/carb & a free flowing exhaust (headers?)


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 318 ideas [Re: RapidRobert] #2786804
06/18/20 01:33 PM
06/18/20 01:33 PM
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ILLINOIS
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volaredon Offline OP
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Yup I've dinged a fresh valve seat or 3 before.
But I didn't want to take the heads in for crack check, bring them back for porting and then back yet again to the machine shop for the rest of the valve job or I'd have ported them before they put the VJ on the heads. I have to do some cleanup on it before I can use it but since that set of heads left my garage for the machine work I have since acquired my own valve grinder. I've used them in the past but not in at least 5 years.if I decide to pull the heads back apart to look at the ports I will do the back cut.
I believe that this offenhauser intake that I have will work with the AC compressor. It's definitely an older intake.
I don't have them any more but I have used the street master 318 (single plane) and the SP-2P before on different engines back in the day and for what they were used on they both did me well at the time.
The street master was on a 318 in a 79 D100 with the 833 od, and the sp was on an 89 diplomat that I had.
I currently have 3 aluminum SB intakes, I know what 2 of them are but don't remember what the other one is at the moment.
I know it isn't a street master or an SP 2P. It may be another performer, it's at home and I'm at work.

Re: 318 ideas [Re: volaredon] #2786890
06/18/20 04:32 PM
06/18/20 04:32 PM
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Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl Offline
pro stock
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I'm running a 74 .060" over block, decked for square, stock heads, Comp cam an springs; cant find the specs but billed as a stock 340/360 unit. Dual exhaust through late(r) model Magnum manifolds. A big block AVS, 600 cfm, I am told, sits on cast iron 273 4bbl intake that has been benchtop machined, (pronounced: hacked) into a single plenum. It was free;it works LOL. No dyno yet but it really woke that 318 up in the Challenger

Re: 318 ideas [Re: Twostick] #2786949
06/18/20 08:25 PM
06/18/20 08:25 PM
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ILLINOIS
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volaredon Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Twostick
Ditch the lean burn, good ignition with a recurved distributor, maybe advance that 360 cam a few degrees or talk to fast68plymouth about the cam he recommended. If you have a well sorted TQ, put that on a Performer but that Edelbrock 600 would work too. The TQ will be more fuel mileage friendly IMHO.

I would think a Magnum head would be the better stock head but would need different pushrods I think. Fast68plymouth again would be the guy to ask.

An A500 or A518 overdrive with a 3.91 would give it the biggest kick in the pants even as it is. If overdrive isn't an option, a 3.23 gear will wake it up considerably compared to the 2.76 and still keep up with traffic.

Kevin

I've done magnum head swaps on a couple of 318s before, yes that does help. But I don't have any. I have these 302s I always had heard they were the best traditional LA heads for a 318. No?
Years ago I had an 88 d100 with a TBI 318 that had those heads on it. That was a roller cam version. After fighting the TBI on that pos I still couldn't top 8 mpg. And that's also after I swapped in an a 518 in place of the original 3 speed auto (999 I think it was?
I've also had a 85 diplomat with a roller 318 and those heads but carbd that car ran better than this fury and doubled the mileage of the 88

I rebuilt the engine in that 88 and discovered the original heads were cracked, this was around 1995, I couldn't find a set of 302s back then to save my life. I finally did in a junkyard and paid a ridiculous amount of money for them at the time. Even with a complete rebuild (stock because of the TBI computer) still an 8mpg truck.
I've had 360 dually that was better than that. Again I blame the blasted TBI setup for that.







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