Re: A833 Problems
[Re: Interceptor72]
#2785866
06/15/20 10:02 PM
06/15/20 10:02 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,752 Phila
PhillyRag
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,752
Phila
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I bought a rebuilt a833, a '70 23 spline. I have no experience with these transmissions. I'm converting from a torqueflite to manual. I'm going to contact the builder with the issue, but it's after hours and I though I'd check here first in case its something simple that I am just not understanding. I have all the shift levers in the neutral position. It seems to be in a gear that is close to 1:1 If I put any of the levers into gear, the input shaft just locks up completely. The only exception is when you go into what should be third gear, it seems to be OVER driving the output shaft (this is NOT supposed to be an overdrive.) The interlock system seems to be working correctly...when you put any lever into gear, the other levers won't move. All the levers seem to move and detent correctly.
Summary: all levers in neutral = 1:1 ratio Friction would cause that. Hold the output. Input should be able to be turned.
Reverse engaged = locked up 1st gear engaged = locked up 2nd gear engaged = locked up 3rd gear engaged = some overdrive ratio 4th gear engaged = locked up. All levers move as expected and lockout system works as expected.
Anybody know a simple fix? Am I overlooking something simple? 1st question: have you removed side cover for an inspection? Check for debris, loose parts.pieces, etc
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Re: A833 Problems
[Re: Stanton]
#2786017
06/16/20 01:37 PM
06/16/20 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 76 Florida
Interceptor72
OP
member
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OP
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 76
Florida
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1:1 is the input shaft driving straight through the main shaft. So ... the issue is the front shift fork is keeping 4th engaged. I suspect the fork got cocked on the install and that's the problem. Pull the side cover for a look. Whether you have trans experience or not, it should be obvious.
Why does a '70 have overdrive - or did you order that ?? I did NOT order an overdrive, but I did request the 3.09 first gear. That makes me worried that they put in the overdrive gearset, which is not what I wanted. After googling how the transmission works, I’m guessing some misalignment during assembly is causing direct drive to be engaged when the 3/4 lever is in neutral.... just as you said. I’ll find out when I get home after work. Would have been nice if they’d done a function check before sending it out.
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Re: A833 Problems
[Re: Stanton]
#2786057
06/16/20 03:46 PM
06/16/20 03:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743
Rio Linda, CA
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So ... the issue is the front shift fork is keeping 4th engaged. I suspect the fork got cocked on the install and that's the problem. It is possible to "miss" the fork when installing the side cover and push it forward.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: A833 Problems
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2786114
06/16/20 07:21 PM
06/16/20 07:21 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 76 Florida
Interceptor72
OP
member
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OP
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 76
Florida
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Got home and took off the cover and it is not as simple as I hoped. The forks were in the right place. Once I was in there and moving the sliders by hand, the problem did NOT go away. But now that I can see what is going on, I can better report what is happening. It is stuck in third gear, even when the sliders are in the neutral position,. I was wrong about it being 1:1. Now that I can see the gears turning, I can see that it is slightly less. When I engage third gear, nothing changes. Any other gear and it is locked up. Third gear is not disengaging, even when the 3/4 slider is moved to the neutral position. It looks like an issue with the synchro. For all the other synchros, it looks like there is about an 1/8" gap between the brass synchro teeth and the gear engagement teeth when the slider is in neutral. For third gear, the brass synchro is slam up against the synchro teeth and I think slightly engaged with them. At least now I know what to tell the builder when I give him a call
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Re: A833 Problems
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2786147
06/16/20 09:03 PM
06/16/20 09:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,860 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,860
Ontario, Canada
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I would agree that you should try to pry the brass syncro loose. But here's how it works ... when you want to engage a gear, the brass gear is pushed against the mating cone of the gear - the purpose is to syncronize the speeds of both the output shaft and the input gear so that when the steel teeth of the syncro mesh with the teeth on the gear the impact is lessened and wear is minimized. The brass syncro ring is kept in relative position by three steel dogs. Its actually the dogs that in your case are keeping 3rd engaged. Pry that ring loose and things should move properly.
BUT there are two styles of dogs, thinner old style and wider new style. the thin old ones will fit newer syncro assemblies but the new won't fit the old . But regardless, the wrong dogs should never be used in the wrong assembly. Unfortunately you won't be able to see those . But there is the possibility that's the cause of your grief.
On the other hand it could be as simple as the brass ring mistakenly got slammed on during assembly and prying loose will be the solution. In fact, if there was no lube applied during assembly, I can understand a dry ring hanging up on the cone. There is nothing that pulls those rings loose, they just sort of float till called upon to do their job.
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Re: A833 Problems
[Re: Interceptor72]
#2786691
06/18/20 08:48 AM
06/18/20 08:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,860 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,860
Ontario, Canada
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that is something that happens sometimes during shipping
This is a typical "that's my story and I'm sticking to it" - Did someone drop it on its end from a rooftop ?!?!?
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Re: A833 Problems
[Re: Stanton]
#2786800
06/18/20 01:23 PM
06/18/20 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743
Rio Linda, CA
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If the trans was assembled with everything dry, I can see a brass synchro ring "sticking" to the gear. After all, the synchro ring is a brake intended to grip its gear.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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