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Basics of transmission/throttle kick down linkage? #2781566
06/04/20 11:44 PM
06/04/20 11:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Thanks for looking, this ought to be a simple question, but my 1967 FSM hasn't solved the problem... I'm referencing Fig 14 on page 21-49.

The car is a 1967 Satellite stock 2bbl 383 with a 1971 replacement 727-B column shift transmission with partial throttle kick down.

Question I have is where to start when I adjust the slotted 'kick down' linkage bar at the carburetor that links back to the transmission's shift lever?
Or maybe the better question is - what position should the 'kick down' lever at the 1971 transmission start at, when I set up the slotted end of the kick down bar at the carburetor that I'm pointing to in the picture below?

The 1967 FSM says to start with the transmission 'kick down' lever in the Full Forward position. OK.
But when I follow the rest of the 1967 FSM instructions and drive the car, the tranny shifts right through 2nd & 3rd at really low speeds, like 35mph.
I'm thinking I've got to start with that 'kick down' shift lever positioned further back on the 1971 tranny?

The picture is the current setup. My finger is pointing to the slotted end that I'm adjusting to just barely touch the throttle pin when the carb is a hot idle. In the picture I have shortened it a little to see if it makes a difference.

What I think I have to do is adjust the linkage from the rear bell crank down to the transmission such that the transmission 'kickdown' lever starts further back when the carb is at idle.
Am I on the right track?

Thanks for input.
- Art

QMXtfr3sSgCfPMdHxhvD2Q.jpg
Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 06/05/20 08:56 AM.

65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Basics of transmission/throttle kick down linkage? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2781615
06/05/20 09:05 AM
06/05/20 09:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,363
Iowa
burdar Offline
Owen's Dad
burdar  Offline
Owen's Dad

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,363
Iowa
Have you seen this video? It should help. Some linkages have you insert a drill bit into some holes on the back of the pivot when you start the adjustment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY9WTWayCC8

Re: Basics of transmission/throttle kick down linkage? [Re: burdar] #2781623
06/05/20 09:47 AM
06/05/20 09:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Originally Posted by burdar
Have you seen this video? It should help. Some linkages have you insert a drill bit into some holes on the back of the pivot when you start the adjustment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY9WTWayCC8


Thanks, yes, that is super helpful to show how to set up a 1971 TorqueFlite. The '67 FSM uses the same approach as the 1971.. and it explains the relationship between Throttle Pressure and Governor Pressure..
In my case, I get "Early Upshift", which is low Throttle Pressure, so I think the throttle lever isn't moving enough to increase pressure as I throttle up.

Setup is simple,
- I start with the tranny throttle lever in the Full Forward position shown at the 8:55 mark on this video..
- Then skip forward to the 12:08 mark and my bell crank setup is identical and adjusted the same way: I start by using a 3/16" pin to hold the bellcrank, then adjust the Throttle Lever to the Full Forward position. Then I adjust the slotted throttle bar to just barely touch the throttle pin at curb idle.

..and this gives me 'Early Upshift'. Something else must be going on. I don't think the problem is internal to the transmission, because it shifted and behaved just fine before I switched carbs from a 4bbl to the original 2bbl. I suspect the 2bbl carb's throttle pin doesn't have enough 'range of travel' to move the tranny throttle lever enough.. I'll look for ways to increase the movement of the tranny's throttle lever.

..What I mean is; as you are driving the car and adding throttle, the linkages move the tranny throttle lever rearwards to change the Throttle Pressure within the transmission.. so if I suspect the throttle lever isn't moving enough, the pressures will be low, and I get the "Early Upshift"... maybe there are a couple holes to put the linkage into that increase the movement of the throttle lever.

I removed the return spring at the carburetor throttle pin which lets the tranny throttle lever move rearwards, just to see what happens, and I got "Late Shift" problems..

Thanks for any comments... I'll get my eyes back on the linkages and lever, and watch the video again.. see what I can figure out.
- Art



Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 06/05/20 10:15 AM.

65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Basics of transmission/throttle kick down linkage? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2781635
06/05/20 10:30 AM
06/05/20 10:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,808
Between Houston & Galveston TX
SattyNoCar Offline
Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile
SattyNoCar  Offline
Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,808
Between Houston & Galveston TX

I always adjusted mine so that the lever was all the way back at WOT.

Here's a couple of links form the Moparts Archives:

line pressure

linkage pictures


John

The dream is dead, long live the dream.......😥
Re: Basics of transmission/throttle kick down linkage? [Re: burdar] #2781645
06/05/20 10:57 AM
06/05/20 10:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,269
Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline
master
markz528  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,269
Morrow, OH
Originally Posted by burdar
Have you seen this video? It should help. Some linkages have you insert a drill bit into some holes on the back of the pivot when you start the adjustment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY9WTWayCC8


That was very informative - thanks for sharing!


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Basics of transmission/throttle kick down linkage? [Re: markz528] #2781696
06/05/20 12:29 PM
06/05/20 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Success..... Thanks Burdar.. Thanks John..
It might seem simple but I have come to the realization that I am the sort who has to think "out loud" before taking action.. maybe that has come with age.

The solution was to lengthen the 'Adjustable Intermediate Rod' from the upper bell crank, so it moves the Throttle Lever rearward. This causes it to increase Throttle Pressure sooner.
I now get proper upshifts, partial throttle downshift, and WOT downshift.

You can see the 'Adjustable Intermediate Rod' at the 12:08 mark of the video, or you can notice the freshly exposed steel on the rod at the back of the bell crank in the photo below, compare it to the first photo up top... Sorry the pic is sideways, my Mac does funny things.
Cheers,
- Art





tdK8NqF+ToetdpV0WPXHGw.jpg
Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 06/05/20 12:31 PM.

65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Basics of transmission/throttle kick down linkage? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2781706
06/05/20 12:36 PM
06/05/20 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,720
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,720
Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted by 67SATisfaction

But when I follow the rest of the 1967 FSM instructions and drive the car, the tranny shifts right through 2nd & 3rd at really low speeds, like 35mph.


At what throttle setting? Your speeds might actually be high.

1972 Shift Speeds.PNG
Last edited by John_Kunkel; 06/05/20 05:18 PM.

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