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Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 #2781454
06/04/20 05:35 PM
06/04/20 05:35 PM
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Connecticut
jeff968 Offline OP
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does anyone know of a good Chevelle board? A buddy and I are looking for an answer to this question:

In the current Hemming's muscle machines in the 69 Chevelle SS profile it states the 396 was increased in size to 402 later in the 69 model year. meaning that some 69s got the 402. My buddy swears it was a year later meaning that all 69s got 396s and 70 was the year that had both.

Sorry for the non-mopar post.

Thx


1970 Dodge Challenger T/A

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: jeff968] #2781462
06/04/20 05:52 PM
06/04/20 05:52 PM
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second 70 Offline
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https://www.chevelles.com/forums/155-2006/149183-402-vs-396-a.html A 402 is a .030 over 396 some late 69's got them. Mike

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: jeff968] #2781469
06/04/20 06:16 PM
06/04/20 06:16 PM
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All Ive ever heard was 1970 is / was the 1st year it was actually a 402 but still badged as a 396

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: jeff968] #2781480
06/04/20 07:00 PM
06/04/20 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jeff968
does anyone know of a good Chevelle board? A buddy and I are looking for an answer to this question:

In the current Hemming's muscle machines in the 69 Chevelle SS profile it states the 396 was increased in size to 402 later in the 69 model year. meaning that some 69s got the 402. My buddy swears it was a year later meaning that all 69s got 396s and 70 was the year that had both.

Sorry for the non-mopar post.

Thx


Team Chevelle would be the place - I'm on there now that I have 67 SS. Some very knowledgeable people on board - like here.


Dean Got my hands on the wheel, foot to the pedal, gonna drive this car till the tires turn to metal - gonna sleep when I'm dead and laugh at the devil..
Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: jeff968] #2781491
06/04/20 07:29 PM
06/04/20 07:29 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Originally Posted by jeff968
does anyone know of a good Chevelle board? A buddy and I are looking for an answer to this question:

In the current Hemming's muscle machines in the 69 Chevelle SS profile it states the 396 was increased in size to 402 later in the 69 model year. meaning that some 69s got the 402. My buddy swears it was a year later meaning that all 69s got 396s and 70 was the year that had both.

Sorry for the non-mopar post.

Thx

Seriously, no one can tell the difference in 6 cubic inches. laugh2


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


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Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: jeff968] #2781521
06/04/20 08:53 PM
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When I was a kid we used to think that the 396 was the hot setup and that the 402 was a dog. Not sure why, that was just the "word on the street" back then. But really if they both were built with the same parts then they should run just the same. The L98 402 was pretty stout with 375 hp rating. I'm not sure on the '69 and '70 thing. Officially the SS 396 was actually a 402 in 1970 but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that some of the '69 cars got 402 engines. The factory wouldn't care that much about that stuff. They just put them together with the parts they have on hand.

Last edited by AndyF; 06/04/20 08:53 PM.
Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: Guitar Jones] #2781535
06/04/20 09:41 PM
06/04/20 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
Originally Posted by jeff968
does anyone know of a good Chevelle board? A buddy and I are looking for an answer to this question:

In the current Hemming's muscle machines in the 69 Chevelle SS profile it states the 396 was increased in size to 402 later in the 69 model year. meaning that some 69s got the 402. My buddy swears it was a year later meaning that all 69s got 396s and 70 was the year that had both.

Sorry for the non-mopar post.

Thx

Seriously, no one can tell the difference in 6 cubic inches. laugh2


I don’t think that is the point. And a micrometer certainly can.

Last edited by Pacnorthcuda; 06/04/20 09:41 PM.
Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2781558
06/04/20 11:10 PM
06/04/20 11:10 PM
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Park Forest, IL
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The 402 kinda got overshadowed by the 454.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: slantzilla] #2781569
06/05/20 12:01 AM
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Las Vegas, NV
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the 402 is to the 396 (Hollander lists the change as late '69 model year)
as
the 400 is to the 383

designed with bigger bores to clean up the engine's emissions - the majority were mid '70 builds in the low compression/smog/non-performance era and their reputation suffers

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: 6bblgt] #2781585
06/05/20 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 6bblgt
the 402 is to the 396 (Hollander lists the change as late '69 model year)
as
the 400 is to the 383


I kinda disagree with this, but only for this reason:

All engines experienced a natural progression of cubic inches. The BBC started with 396 and went to 427 and 454. The 402 in between that sequence may or may not have been for some emissions reason, but notice the increase was marginal.

Compare it to the B engine, which went from 350 to 361 and 383 and 400. Notice the last leap was 17 cid, which was not insignificant.

This site (http://www.chevellestuff.net/1970/70ss.htm) suggests engines under/over 400cid had different emissions regulations, and tweaking the 396 to tip over 400 may have solved the issue. But what was the issue?

Regarding the OP's query, I don't have the article in question, but let me offer an opinion that Hemmings is wrong when talking about Chevelles and partially correct when talking about the Camaro. For most of the Chevys, the model year began in Sept, but the Camaro was delayed into the beginning of 1970. Hence, 1969 Camaro production was extended into November or December 1969. I would think these cars built in August through the end of the year came with 402s.

Wanna hear something confusing? The 402, as optioned in Chevelles that were not SSs, was called the 400. So there was a 402 that was marketed as a 396 AND a 400 (and, no, not to be confused with the 400 SBC)!

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2781626
06/05/20 09:57 AM
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jeff968 Offline OP
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here is the section from the article.

hemmings.JPG

1970 Dodge Challenger T/A

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2781647
06/05/20 11:01 AM
06/05/20 11:01 AM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Originally Posted by Diego (not Ted)
Originally Posted by 6bblgt
the 402 is to the 396 (Hollander lists the change as late '69 model year)
as
the 400 is to the 383


I kinda disagree with this, but only for this reason:

All engines experienced a natural progression of cubic inches. The BBC started with 396 and went to 427 and 454. The 402 in between that sequence may or may not have been for some emissions reason, but notice the increase was marginal.

Compare it to the B engine, which went from 350 to 361 and 383 and 400. Notice the last leap was 17 cid, which was not insignificant.

This site (http://www.chevellestuff.net/1970/70ss.htm) suggests engines under/over 400cid had different emissions regulations, and tweaking the 396 to tip over 400 may have solved the issue. But what was the issue?

Regarding the OP's query, I don't have the article in question, but let me offer an opinion that Hemmings is wrong when talking about Chevelles and partially correct when talking about the Camaro. For most of the Chevys, the model year began in Sept, but the Camaro was delayed into the beginning of 1970. Hence, 1969 Camaro production was extended into November or December 1969. I would think these cars built in August through the end of the year came with 402s.

Wanna hear something confusing? The 402, as optioned in Chevelles that were not SSs, was called the 400. So there was a 402 that was marketed as a 396 AND a 400 (and, no, not to be confused with the 400 SBC)!


C10 pickups were the same way. A Cheyenne badged as a 400 would have a 402 in it.

Kevin

Last edited by Twostick; 06/05/20 11:03 AM.
Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: Twostick] #2781689
06/05/20 12:21 PM
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Yeah I remember running into the 400 emblem and assuming it was a small block but it was a big block. That 402 had a real identity crisis. I think the marketing folks knew that the 402 was considered a dog so they didn't want to tell anyone about it. Weird stuff.

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: AndyF] #2781728
06/05/20 01:28 PM
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I've heard the 402 is a bored over 396 block due to casting issues with the blocks. It was just a way to salvage a bunch of parts and labor basically.

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: Neil] #2781749
06/05/20 02:02 PM
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work have you ever seen a 396 with a smog pump, how about a 402? additional components cost $$$ (the minimal increase in displacement was a cost consideration, a new block was not engineered)

in the mid-'70s 440s received smog pumps in CA (low production quantities) but was not required on the 400 (larger production numbers offset the costs bringing the new engine to production)

& to save costs, Chrysler Corp. wanted the new "B" engine to share its bore with the 440 at 4.320", but with the 3.375 "B" engine stroke that would've been 396 cu.in. (wasn't going to happen twocents)

someone suggested "400 cu.in." sounded better & bore was increased to 4.342"

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: 6bblgt] #2781773
06/05/20 02:50 PM
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The 70 SS had 396 or 454 badges. The 396 was a 402 even thou it said 396 on the car. The 402 just like the 396 came in several HP ranges some good heads some not. Some dogs some not. It was done to meet clean air standards. The engines had to pass a new and 5 year test. The 427 couldn't pass the new test for passenger cars and was gone. The 454 could pass the new test but not the 5 year test and that is why the 454 SS trucks came out to get rid of the 454 engines because the trucks didn't have to meet the clean air standard.

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: second 70] #2781815
06/05/20 04:53 PM
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Although I am a diehard Mopar guy, I have always liked Chevelles .. this is my friends 70 a former Super/Stock car now a street car. He bought it from his good friend who was the original owner.. car is gorgeous!

IMG_2508.JPG
Last edited by 11secdart; 06/05/20 04:57 PM.

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Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: AndyF] #2781831
06/05/20 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
That 402 had a real identity crisis. I think the marketing folks knew that the 402 was considered a dog so they didn't want to tell anyone about it. Weird stuff.


The only one considering it a dog is you.

In 1970, the top 402 had solid lifters and 375 horses. This engine, known as the L78, is pretty famous.

The 402/330 that was introduced for regular Chevelles and the Monte Carlo is known as the LS3. It continued on for a few more years. being rated at 300 horses in 1971 and I can't remember what in 1972. How does that compare with dog 383s and 400s from 1971 and beyond?

Like I suggested, it's just your perception.

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: Diego (not Ted)] #2781964
06/05/20 11:40 PM
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If the marketing guys thought the 402 was something special then they would not have called the car the SS 396. People back then thought the 402 was a dog even though it was basically the same as the 396. Just got a bad rap, same as the 400.

Re: Chevelle board? A question on the 396/402 [Re: AndyF] #2782012
06/06/20 09:22 AM
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Wanna hear something confusing? The 402, as optioned in Chevelles that were not SSs, was called the 400. So there was a 402 that was marketed as a 396 AND a 400 (and, no, not to be confused with the 400 SBC)!

I bought a 71 Impala for the drivetrain and it had 400 badges. I never opened the hood until I got it home. I bought it dirt cheap. When I opened the hood I realized it was a big block 402. What a nice surprise as I installed it in a 71 Malibu. It wasn't a race horse but it would lite the tires up at 30 mph when you mashed the pedal.

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