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Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2781035
06/03/20 12:12 PM
06/03/20 12:12 PM
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Al_Alguire Offline
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Originally Posted by WadeMetzinger
Question for you guys that have build KB and B1 motors, did you helicoil any of the threads in the heads or the block?


No. The one thing to watch is adequate thread engagement into the block for sure. As for the heads unless they are REALLY old should be no need.

Just had the small port(282cc)B1 heads on the dyno yesterday made good power for a tiny port. 937@6900


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: Al_Alguire] #2781338
06/04/20 10:48 AM
06/04/20 10:48 AM
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Thanks Al for the response and others as well!

Intake, valve covers and Indy 2 piece valley tray power coated.

Heads were milled .040, oil passage in head tapped for 10/32 set screw that will be drilled .060 to restrict oil going to the heads. (need to mock up the heads and intake to see how much if and how much the intake needs to be milled)

Compression should be 12.46:1 after milling the head and getting the head chambers down to 64cc

#4 journal on the cam grooved for full time oiling

Rotating assembly balanced. (he took a lot of the weight off counter weights in the lathe but still had to drill a lot of holes)
-2007 gram bob weight!
o 2.100” rod journal as opposed to 2.200”, lighter rod and rod bearings
o 4.360” bore as opposed to 4.5”, smaller and lighter piston
o 3, 3, 9mm rings as opposed to 1/6, 1/6, 3/16 or .043, .043, 3/16

It’s setup for spin high rpms but I’m hoping to keep it well under 7,500. Shift at 7,200, I probably wouldn’t be able to do that if I would have had the heads fully ported.

Intake.jpgHead.jpgCam.jpgRotating.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2781362
06/04/20 12:21 PM
06/04/20 12:21 PM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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How about some help with where to install the valve springs:

Springs:
PSI DR426RML
1.500"
300Lbs seat at 2.050”
840lbs open at 1.150
Rate 600
Cool bind 1.100

Cam:
.767/.767 276/288 110 lob sep 108 centerline

With them installed at 2.050 they will be .183 from coil bind and I think you want to be closer to .050 from coil bind correct?

But if I install at 1.917 (2.050 - .133 (.183-.050)) that will give me 380lbs seat and 940lbs open pressure and that sounds like too much, thoughts?

Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2781391
06/04/20 01:41 PM
06/04/20 01:41 PM
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Some internet "guru" will tell you that they like .055, some will say .100 from coil bind. I use what the spring makers suggest up
Keep in mind, especially with aluminum heads that the head will grow taller as it warms up and the valves won't grow as much so the clearances on coil bind will be less with the motor warm up so I shoot for .060 to .080 from coil bind at room temps on all 16 springs on aluminum heads up scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: Cab_Burge] #2781463
06/04/20 05:53 PM
06/04/20 05:53 PM
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Al_Alguire Offline
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I would tend to agree with Cab and using the manufacturers recommendations for sure, especially when using nee pieces. I don't think you will need to see near the RPM you think you will. Have done a bunch of b1 stuff over the years and with those kinda cam specs id be willing to bet peak is closer to 7000-7200


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: Al_Alguire] #2781590
06/05/20 06:28 AM
06/05/20 06:28 AM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Thanks for you.re input guys!

Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2783111
06/09/20 09:54 AM
06/09/20 09:54 AM
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I got the valve springs setup on the heads. They set up from 1.940 to 1.950 so that's between .073 and .083 from coil bind. (using the valve seals to hold the shims and locators in place until final assymbly)

Before I install the PSI springs, I will put on the 8 checking springs and make sure I have push rod clearance in the head and the block.

I drilled the 10/32 set screw to .060 to restrict the oil to the heads (I circled the 2 10/32 taped oil passages in the heads)

I chased the oil passages with one of those flexible small diameter lights to see where they went and make sure there weren't any obstructed and noticed that KB put restrictors in the oil passages from the mains to the cam journals. The restrictors were around .080 and since I'm oiling the heads via the #4 journal that are 2 .060 felt I needed to open that one up some so I got a long drill bit and drilled the #4 restrictor out to .180

Valve Springs.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2783141
06/09/20 11:08 AM
06/09/20 11:08 AM
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440Jim Offline
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It is my understanding that those oil restrictors above the mains are part of the "priority main" oiling system. So if you loose pressure to the cam or lifters; the mains still have some oil pressure to make it live until engine is shutoff. It can change the running oil pressure measurement in the lifter bores & cam bearings compared to the mains. I was pushrod oiling my KB motor, and the pressure in the lifter galley was just right so I didn't need to restrict oil flow to the heads.

KB_block_oiling.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: 440Jim] #2783183
06/09/20 12:11 PM
06/09/20 12:11 PM
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Jim, that makes sense so by drilling this out from .080 to .180 (rechecked the sizes) it will reduce the oil pressure to #4 main compared to the others in the even of pressure/volume loss from top end. Hopefully that doesn't happen and if it does hopefully the coated main bearings will buy me a little more time/safety.

Here are picture of the drilled out oil restrictor on the bottom of #4 cam journal and then un-touched #3 cam bearing journal (a little blurry)

That KB picture you posed must be the newer and redesigned blocks as mine doesn't have that port on the back left side (around 10 o'clock)

KB #4.jpgKB #3.jpgKB Main bearings.jpgKB block.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2783184
06/09/20 12:11 PM
06/09/20 12:11 PM
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Here is a picture of my pushrod opening on my KB block, when I was checking Piston to Valve clearance, there wasn't any interferance but I know you had to do some clearancing, wonder if that was because it was a low deck or the pushrod angle on the -1 heads...

KB pushrod.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2785275
06/14/20 09:57 AM
06/14/20 09:57 AM
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The checking pushrods didn’t appear to make contact but They are 3/8 and I plan to use 7/16 on the exhaust so I marked the block where it didn’t match up with the openings on the heads and opened those up.

I also turned the block over and checked it see if the valves got close to the cylinder walls since it’s on a small bore but as you can see in the pic with the valve fully open they weren’t even close.

I then traced the cylinder bore with a pencil on the heads. The only concern is between number 1,3 and 2,4 cylinders, as the chamber is right on line. Since I’m using a 4.380 head gasket it should be fine but I need to look how the gasket sits on the head to be sure.

5FB46661-15C5-456E-8244-9B6B38303346.jpegBA1A6338-F5F5-4979-BA64-63D178736CE6.jpeg8D8541DC-8EAF-472F-B014-9FD93D9CAE3E.jpegC9763DE1-73BA-459D-8136-4FBED2FC5C6E.jpeg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2785277
06/14/20 10:00 AM
06/14/20 10:00 AM
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Bore traced on head

130EAB74-063F-4E93-99FE-CB4FCB9C0754.jpeg
Last edited by WadeMetzinger; 06/14/20 10:11 AM.
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2785551
06/14/20 10:29 PM
06/14/20 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by WadeMetzinger
The checking pushrods didn’t appear to make contact but They are 3/8 and I plan to use 7/16 on the exhaust so I marked the block where it didn’t match up with the openings on the heads and opened those up.

I also turned the block over and checked it see if the valves got close to the cylinder walls since it’s on a small bore but as you can see in the pic with the valve fully open they weren’t even close.

I then traced the cylinder bore with a pencil on the heads. The only concern is between number 1,3 and 2,4 cylinders, as the chamber is right on line. Since I’m using a 4.380 head gasket it should be fine but I need to look how the gasket sits on the head to be sure.

I cut those tabs off between the stock two holes by the part number with tin snips on every motor now that has adjustable rockers and 3/8 diameter pushrods or bigger upwrench up scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: Cab_Burge] #2785616
06/15/20 09:53 AM
06/15/20 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I cut those tabs off between the stock two holes by the part number with tin snips on every motor now that has adjustable rockers and 3/8 diameter pushrods or bigger upwrench up scope
Cab, I have done the same. Cutting off where I put the yellow line.

Head_gasket-pushrods-cut.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: 440Jim] #2785720
06/15/20 01:41 PM
06/15/20 01:41 PM
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Cut those tabs off..Also we make room for the rivets in the Cometics as the B1 heads are kinda big on those spots. Is it necessary no, but makes it look better smile

[Linked Image]


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: Al_Alguire] #2785746
06/15/20 02:48 PM
06/15/20 02:48 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Al, That's much prettier than my rat tail filing I did to make room for the rivet.

I got 6 of the pistons installed over the weekend, I was really nervous about rolling an oil ring since they are so small but so far so good (I probably just jinxed myself).

.026 ring gap on both top and bottom rings per Total Seal, I think I had 2 end up being closer to .028-.029... oops

The main and rod called for just oil on the threads so it wasn't as messy as other motors.

The washer on the rod bolts is like 1/4" thick and didn't seem removable, so that was different, just had to take out the bolt, clean it, oil it and then install and torque it in 1 single motion to 75lbs. I didn't check the bolt stretch, they were just ARP2000 bolts. But I do use the bolt stretch method with using the custom age 625 bolts.

That was my first time to install the "dog bone" rear main seal, it was interesting but I think it's a good design.

There was a lot to torque on the block with the dual side bolts and the mains being 5/8". Man 120lbs torque was a work out, I could have used a longer torque wrench. (my daughter helped me oil all the threads and washers, she said she like all the oil on her hands and said if we could make a pool full of oil so she could swim in it and I proceeded to tell her that they do have oil wrestling evens to which she asked to go participate in... I left out the barely clothed women part)

Rod clearance was between .0028 - .0030
Main clearance was between .0029 - .0033

Here is how I check the clearance:
1. I checked the clearance by mic'ing the crank, locking the mic, recheck the crank and then put it in a soft jaw vice.
2. I then take a dial bore gauge and measure the main journal with the bearing and torqued at 12 and 6 position, and find the smallest measurement and Zero out the gauge and then recheck.
3. Then I take the dial bore gauge and measure the center of the mic pads that is held by the vice.

I have repeated this for all the main before but typically if it's in the .0025 - .003 range, I will just set the crank in dry and plasigauge the rest of the mains.

How do you guys check rod and main clearances?

.025 side clearance on the rods, still need to check the crank thrust clearance.

I feel like it's all down hill from here...

KB Pistions install.jpgKB Piston assymbly.jpgKB aspen.jpg
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2785762
06/15/20 03:38 PM
06/15/20 03:38 PM
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Hey
Go move that jack handle for me.......Way to close to pretty paint for my old heart to take.......Looks pretty good so far.
Todd

Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: sasquatch] #2785771
06/15/20 04:48 PM
06/15/20 04:48 PM
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Morrow, OH
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It looks might purty and I am jealous of your help!


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: WadeMetzinger] #2785880
06/15/20 10:41 PM
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Throw the plastigauge away twocents
It was a old tool for farmers and your regular automotive garage mechanixs, no place for it in in Hi Po engine building twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 508” KB – B1 build [Re: Cab_Burge] #2791018
06/30/20 02:28 PM
06/30/20 02:28 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
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Not much progress to report (I spent the last week racing Jr dragsters with my daughter at the NHRA Western Conference Finals) but I did finish the bottom end, springs set up on the heads and checking for #8 bung placement for oil drain back lines from the heads.

I have a new Milodon oil pump and Muscle motors cover for this motor but I think I'm just going to reuse the one I had on the 540" Frankenstein motor since it was working just fine and already set up. (I did pick up a new 4.25" stroke crank and 7.100" pistons from Molnar through Marsh Performance to put that motor back together for a back up)

I'm not sure if the new owners of KB still do this but when I purchased mine, it came with head studs, oil pan stud and timing cover studs, which was really nice.
- Anyone know of a kit or where to pick up bell housing studs? Since it's an aluminum block, I'd rather put studs in the block to mount the tranny too (J&W Ultrabell) rather than using 3/8 bolts.

I found these on ARP's site, but they are for Top Fuel and 7/16 but didn't see any in 3/8 size:
APR bell housing studs

Heads complete.jpgKB bottom.jpg
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