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Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2780435
06/01/20 05:36 PM
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Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: bee1971] #2780448
06/01/20 05:54 PM
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Reason I am asking after your last thread

You where just changing metering rods , without changing Jets , and actually went in the wrong direction , very rich

I was just curious if you actually pulled the top off the carb ?



If I would have installed my brand new out of the box AVS2 800 last year

Car probably won’t have ran very good - One of the floats was so far out of adjustment , I don’t know if the needle would have even left the seat


If you did pull the carb apart , what are your float levels , float drop , jetting and metering rods now since your last thread ?




Last edited by bee1971; 06/01/20 06:01 PM.

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Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: bee1971] #2780554
06/02/20 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bee1971
Reason I am asking after your last thread

You where just changing metering rods , without changing Jets , and actually went in the wrong direction , very rich

I was just curious if you actually pulled the top off the carb ?



If I would have installed my brand new out of the box AVS2 800 last year

Car probably won’t have ran very good - One of the floats was so far out of adjustment , I don’t know if the needle would have even left the seat


If you did pull the carb apart , what are your float levels , float drop , jetting and metering rods now since your last thread ?




Hi, yes i did, i checked the float level and set it at 7/16 float height and 0,79 inch drop, both main and secondary is 104,
The rods are 65-52. Like i said the engine runs great and 5 plugs lookes really good but 3 plugs are rich and if i lean out the carb more the already 5 good plugs going to run to lean so the distribution must be uneven, my confusing is my Aem wideband, the afr says i go very rich, cruising at 2000-2500 rpm the afr reads between 12-13, at idle around 13 and wot 10-12, thats rich but by reading my plugs some of them are almost white so i wonder what is right here, its so much confusing info about reading spark plugs to, some say look at the base ring for A/F mixture and other says look at the insulator, some say the tip is ignition timing indicator and so on so what should i go after? If i read the insulator of 5 of my spark plugs the mixture is almost lean and the afr says rich like hell so what should you go after. Number 7 is total black as you can see and 5 and 6 also rich by reading insulator and the rest lookes like the go almost lean but afr tell me something total different. I have a stady vacuum at idle of 18 hg/inch, the needle floating little about a half hg/inch but that i think is because of the uneven distribution, when i snap the throttle it drops to 5 and swings back to 25 and after that back to steady 18, if i have a problem in a cylinder the vacuum needle should bouncing around but it doesnt so it must be all good there, this is really confusing and nobody seems to know what you should go after either, plugs, afr or whatever just a whole lot of different info, go by the base cirkel, no go by the insulator, no go by afr and so on. If i go by the afr its running rich like hell and if i go by the insulator reading on the spark plugs it seems like 3 cylinders are getting all the fule and mostly number 7, so i dont really know what to do here.

Last edited by Mopar493; 06/02/20 06:15 AM.
Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2780593
06/02/20 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mopar493
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by csk
Originally Posted by jlatessa
How would you diagnose that condition?

Thanks, Joe


a four gas analyzer,,,,, just set the idle mixture screws for a smoothest idle with new plugs & see how it goes.


A much cheaper solution than a 4 gas analyzer is using a colortune.

I have looked at the Gunson colortune and it seems to be a nice product but is not a vacuum gauge good enough for the idle mixture job? And with a 4 bbl carb that feeding 8 cylinders its not so much to do for a single cylinder or a few that running rich. My number 7 spark plug lookes totally black and 5 and 6 are to rich but the rest are good, i just wonder how it can be


The question was "how do you diagnose a lean misfire". One answer was to use a 4 gas analyzer. Which is expensive and not very precise. It will tell you if you have a lean misfire, but you won't know which cylinder.

A colortune can be put in each cylinder, you only need one, just move it around, and you will see the lean misfire, it's cheaper and more precise compared to a 4 gas analyzer. Yes, you can also use it to set idle mixture.

Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Sniper] #2780616
06/02/20 10:21 AM
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The question was "how do you diagnose a lean misfire". One answer was to use a 4 gas analyzer. Which is expensive and not very precise. It will tell you if you have a lean misfire, but you won't know which cylinder.

A colortune can be put in each cylinder, you only need one, just move it around, and you will see the lean misfire, it's cheaper and more precise compared to a 4 gas analyzer. Yes, you can also use it to set idle mixture. [/quote]
Thank you than i understand! The real confuse to me is how afr can show really rich and 5 sparkplug insulators show white, i never get any straight answer anywhere how to properly read spark plug, some say A/F mixture is read by the base circle, some reading on porcelain and so on.

20200602_122101.jpg
Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2780618
06/02/20 10:22 AM
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https://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%20Basics%20Root%20Folder/Reading%20Spark%20Plugs.html
Read this! I have always thought looking at the porcelain is the proper way but when reading this thats wrong and maybe can answer why my afr is rich and 5 plugs porcelain still white. But 3 plugs still show super rich so i dont know how to do, maybe another intake manifold is the answer of this uneven fuel distribution i dont know

Last edited by Mopar493; 06/02/20 10:27 AM.
Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2781286
06/04/20 03:08 AM
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After another test drive it was number 6 that was totaly black instead of number 7 and still 3 fat cylinders so its not just a single one of them thats running fat so i belive the problem is and i have always belive it that it is the distribution of fuel in this intake that is uneven, maybe its just so that the dual rpm intake not working properly for my combo. Im going to try a street dominator intake, i know the single plane are better for distribution and are more forgiving in the low end on a stroker engine, if it is better for even distribution and i maybe have to give up a few lbs in the bottom end so let it be so, the bottom end is huge on this engine and im not a race driver so i belive im not even notice the different, the engine have more power than i ever use, i want the distribution even and the engine feeling well.

Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2781323
06/04/20 10:07 AM
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https://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60876

Here is one persons experience with a dual plane Edelbrock air gap intake, there is some experts that have to scratches their heads a bit.

Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2781344
06/04/20 11:14 AM
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Doubtful it's an issue with the Air Gap design, many people run them without this issue. Which is not to say your specific manifold doesn't have an issue.

Years ago I ran into an engine that had the two outer plugs on one side and the two inner plugs on the other side all carbon fouled. All four plugs were fed by the same half of a QJ. The carb was in need of a rebuild.

Look at commonality issues is my suggestion. You realize the three cylinders you are having issues with follow each other in the firing order? Did you look at that?

Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Sniper] #2781352
06/04/20 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Doubtful it's an issue with the Air Gap design, many people run them without this issue. Which is not to say your specific manifold doesn't have an issue.

Years ago I ran into an engine that had the two outer plugs on one side and the two inner plugs on the other side all carbon fouled. All four plugs were fed by the same half of a QJ. The carb was in need of a rebuild.

Look at commonality issues is my suggestion. You realize the three cylinders you are having issues with follow each other in the firing order? Did you look at that?


I had two bad plug wires on my similar build running E Street Heads 75cc Angled Plug
They where carbon fouled on the terminal end where it clicks on the Spark Plugs

Also thats why i asked if he opened up the carb and checked everything and he said he did

In his initial post he mentions Slight Misses At Idle ???

As in ??? Fuel or Ignition related

Also are you running any type of carb spacer or 4-hole gasket with that intake manifold ???


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Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: bee1971] #2781360
06/04/20 12:16 PM
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all intake manifolds have distribution issues. some worth dealing with, others not. the cut out in the divider is supposed to help with that. for my 2 cents i'd give a hard look at the carbs driver side secondary bore. long shot but something could be going on there.

Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: bee1971] #2781404
06/04/20 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bee1971
Originally Posted by Sniper
Doubtful it's an issue with the Air Gap design, many people run them without this issue. Which is not to say your specific manifold doesn't have an issue.

Years ago I ran into an engine that had the two outer plugs on one side and the two inner plugs on the other side all carbon fouled. All four plugs were fed by the same half of a QJ. The carb was in need of a rebuild.

Look at commonality issues is my suggestion. You realize the three cylinders you are having issues with follow each other in the firing order? Did you look at that?


I had two bad plug wires on my similar build running E Street Heads 75cc Angled Plug
They where carbon fouled on the terminal end where it clicks on the Spark Plugs

Also thats why i asked if he opened up the carb and checked everything and he said he did

In his initial post he mentions Slight Misses At Idle ???

As in ??? Fuel or Ignition related

Also are you running any type of carb spacer or 4-hole gasket with that intake manifold ???





Nobody seems to want to blame the air gap intake, i have google alot in different forums the last day and not only Mopar forums and many people seems to have uneven distribution problems with it, one example is that person in the link i post above, my engine runs really good actually and for sure i havent even noticed the uneven distribution if i not have started reading the plugs, its only a slight miss at idle nothing big at all, almost not noticed on the vacuum gauge but i not want any cylinder going lean. Its alot more people running into this issue so there must be some ground in it, this man in the link above also have the engine in a dyno and a few enginebuilders scratches their head around him so its worth reading. One other thing i not have thinking of until now is that this carb i have is a avs2, so its annular boosters in the primary ports witch atomize fuel little same efi and what i have heard many people say that efi works best with a single plane manifold because of the atomized fuel. Before this carb on the same engine i have a regular avs 800 carb and im not noticed this problem with that one and im same always reading plugs with that carb to, i only switch to the avs2 because of all good i hear about it but in this case it become a problem instead, just a thought.One more thing is that the afr readings is very erratic to, Thats why i think maybe a street fominator intake would sute this combo better

Last edited by Mopar493; 06/04/20 02:30 PM.
Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2781409
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Originally Posted by Mopar493
Originally Posted by bee1971
Originally Posted by Sniper
Doubtful it's an issue with the Air Gap design, many people run them without this issue. Which is not to say your specific manifold doesn't have an issue.

Years ago I ran into an engine that had the two outer plugs on one side and the two inner plugs on the other side all carbon fouled. All four plugs were fed by the same half of a QJ. The carb was in need of a rebuild.

Look at commonality issues is my suggestion. You realize the three cylinders you are having issues with follow each other in the firing order? Did you look at that?


I had two bad plug wires on my similar build running E Street Heads 75cc Angled Plug
They where carbon fouled on the terminal end where it clicks on the Spark Plugs

Also thats why i asked if he opened up the carb and checked everything and he said he did

In his initial post he mentions Slight Misses At Idle ???

As in ??? Fuel or Ignition related

Also are you running any type of carb spacer or 4-hole gasket with that intake manifold ???





Nobody seems to want to blame the air gap intake, i have google alot in different forums the last day and not only Mopar forums and many people seems to have uneven distribution problems with it, one example is that person in the link i post above, my engine runs really good actually and for sure i havent even noticed the uneven distribution if i not have started reading the plugs, its only a slight miss at idle nothing big at all, almost not noticed on the vacuum gauge but i not want any cylinder going lean. Its alot more people running into this issue so there must be some ground in it, this man in the link above also have the engine in a dyno and a few enginebuilders scratches their head around him so its worth reading. One other thing i not have thinking of until now is that this carb i have is a avs2, so its annular boosters in the primary ports witch atomize fuel little same efi and what i have heard many people say that efi works best with a single plane manifold because of the atomized fuel. Before this carb on the same engine i have a regular avs 800 carb and im not noticed this problem with that one and im same always reading plugs with that carb to, i only switch to the avs2 because of all good i hear about it but in this case it become a problem instead, just a thought.
try the regular avs for a test. i'd be curious as to how that works. I have a friend with the regular 800avs on a 427 chevy, edelbrock intake, and it performs quite well. I tune the engine and had to step the jetting down on the primary side to clean the plugs up. i'd still look at the driver side secondary system. with a normal fuel distribution issue #5 shouldn't have a real problem, UNLESS something big was going on at that back corner and fuel was bleeding across the manifold divider.

Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: lewtot184] #2781413
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
Originally Posted by Mopar493
Originally Posted by bee1971
Originally Posted by Sniper
Doubtful it's an issue with the Air Gap design, many people run them without this issue. Which is not to say your specific manifold doesn't have an issue.

Years ago I ran into an engine that had the two outer plugs on one side and the two inner plugs on the other side all carbon fouled. All four plugs were fed by the same half of a QJ. The carb was in need of a rebuild.

Look at commonality issues is my suggestion. You realize the three cylinders you are having issues with follow each other in the firing order? Did you look at that?


I had two bad plug wires on my similar build running E Street Heads 75cc Angled Plug
They where carbon fouled on the terminal end where it clicks on the Spark Plugs

Also thats why i asked if he opened up the carb and checked everything and he said he did

In his initial post he mentions Slight Misses At Idle ???

As in ??? Fuel or Ignition related

Also are you running any type of carb spacer or 4-hole gasket with that intake manifold ???





Nobody seems to want to blame the air gap intake, i have google alot in different forums the last day and not only Mopar forums and many people seems to have uneven distribution problems with it, one example is that person in the link i post above, my engine runs really good actually and for sure i havent even noticed the uneven distribution if i not have started reading the plugs, its only a slight miss at idle nothing big at all, almost not noticed on the vacuum gauge but i not want any cylinder going lean. Its alot more people running into this issue so there must be some ground in it, this man in the link above also have the engine in a dyno and a few enginebuilders scratches their head around him so its worth reading. One other thing i not have thinking of until now is that this carb i have is a avs2, so its annular boosters in the primary ports witch atomize fuel little same efi and what i have heard many people say that efi works best with a single plane manifold because of the atomized fuel. Before this carb on the same engine i have a regular avs 800 carb and im not noticed this problem with that one and im same always reading plugs with that carb to, i only switch to the avs2 because of all good i hear about it but in this case it become a problem instead, just a thought.
try the regular avs for a test. i'd be curious as to how that works. I have a friend with the regular 800avs on a 427 chevy, edelbrock intake, and it performs quite well. I tune the engine and had to step the jetting down on the primary side to clean the plugs up. i'd still look at the driver side secondary system. with a normal fuel distribution issue #5 shouldn't have a real problem, UNLESS something big was going on at that back corner and fuel was bleeding across the manifold divider.

I drive with the regular one until 100 miles ago so this avs2 is really new for me. The regular one i leaned out one step and after that it runs really good, a little on the rich side but much more even on all cylinders and no idle miss. I switch to the avs2 carb same size and have drive it for about 400 miles and tuning up and down but not get the distribution even, i have not think about it until now, i just think the carb need to be tuned right but it must be something with this annular bosters atomizing the fuel and the combo with the dual air gap. I have asked Edelbrock about it but they not want to answer my question they only want to sell Fi tech to me. From what i have reading in many forums, people have get distribution more even with a 1" open spacer or a single plane and that leads me again to street dominator if i should continue with this carb and on a big stroker i not think i give up so much low end, this combo has more power in the bottom than i ever use anyway.

Last edited by Mopar493; 06/04/20 03:16 PM.
Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2781426
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Originally Posted by Mopar493
[/quote

Nobody seems to want to blame the air gap intake,


Quote
Before this carb on the same engine i have a regular avs 800 carb and im not noticed this problem with that one and im same always reading plugs with that carb to, i only switch to the avs2 because of all good i hear about it but in this case it become a problem instead, just a thought.One more thing is that the afr readings is very erratic to, Thats why i think maybe a street fominator intake would sute this combo better


Read the two quotes

No one want to blame the intake

A different style carb didn't show this issue on this intake.

New carb shows the issue.

Maybe your problem is the new carb, tune/fix it or put the old carb back on.

Or you can spend more money on another intake, your choice.

Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Sniper] #2781433
06/04/20 04:51 PM
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What am I missing here

In your initial post your running a Edelbrock RPM INTAKE

Not a Air Gap Intake

How did we even start talking about Air Gap Intake which is for a small block ???

The RPM has a divider but is cut out for fuel distribution ,that’s why I mentioned if you where running any type of spacer under the carb


Anyways


Also this is the first time we are hearing of you running a Regular Edelbrock 800 and it sounds like you honestly had zero issues with that carb , THEN you installed the AVS2 800 correct and all your issues started ??

That’s why I kept asking if you opened up the carb and checked everything

Well it sounds pretty simple to me


Last edited by bee1971; 06/04/20 04:55 PM.

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Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Sniper] #2781434
06/04/20 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by Mopar493

Nobody seems to want to blame the air gap intake, [/quote


Quote
Before this carb on the same engine i have a regular avs 800 carb and im not noticed this problem with that one and im same always reading plugs with that carb to, i only switch to the avs2 because of all good i hear about it but in this case it become a problem instead, just a thought.One more thing is that the afr readings is very erratic to, Thats why i think maybe a street fominator intake would sute this combo better


Read the two quotes

No one want to blame the intake

A different style carb didn't show this issue on this intake.

New carb shows the issue.

Maybe your problem is the new carb, tune/fix it or put the old carb back on.

Or you can spend more money on another intake, your choice.



X10


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Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Sniper] #2781435
06/04/20 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by Mopar493

Nobody seems to want to blame the air gap intake, [/quote


Quote
Before this carb on the same engine i have a regular avs 800 carb and im not noticed this problem with that one and im same always reading plugs with that carb to, i only switch to the avs2 because of all good i hear about it but in this case it become a problem instead, just a thought.One more thing is that the afr readings is very erratic to, Thats why i think maybe a street fominator intake would sute this combo better


Read the two quotes

No one want to blame the intake

A different style carb didn't show this issue on this intake.

New carb shows the issue.

Maybe your problem is the new carb, tune/fix it or put the old carb back on.

Or you can spend more money on another intake, your choice.

I send Edelbrock a question earlier and describe the whole situation and in the first they only suggest a fi tech but i push the question further and i get one more answer just a few minutes ago and they answer that the fuel distribution is more even in a single plame manifold and that the avs2 because of the fuel atomize and a single plane might be a better choise for my combo and that a bigger volyme engine is much more forgiving with a single plane in street use. That answer and my exprience with the regular avs and everything i have read about it makes me believe that a street dominator maybe not are a step in the wrong direction, like i said before im not the only one with the same issue. I have a good steet dominator intake in my garage from another 440 so i give it a try. Also i have going through this carb more than once and its nothing wrong with it.

Last edited by Mopar493; 06/04/20 04:56 PM.
Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2781437
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I run that same AVS2 800 on my little 432 with a dual plane intake and I can light the tires off idle from Green Bay to Chicago


However I had to reset the floats brand new out of the box like I mentioned


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Re: Uneven fuel distribution [Re: Mopar493] #2781440
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generally annular boosters seem to work better on engines with lower vacuum, or engines that may be a little over carbed. 18"hg at idle is better than the stock engines were. I still think i'd take the carb apart for inspection. the avs2 probably has no practical advantage with your engine combo. edelbrocks FI suggestion is something to get you to spend more money. run the regular 800avs and just enjoy the car.

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