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WW2 Operation Chariot: #2780127
05/31/20 06:19 PM
05/31/20 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,390
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda Offline OP
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Sunroofcuda  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,390
Highland, MI.
Some call it the greatest raid of all. Badass Brits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Zd0Oy8JyQ


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
Re: WW2 Operation Chariot: [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2780388
06/01/20 04:09 PM
06/01/20 04:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
I liked and enjoyed the video . I would have also like to know what was real film footage vs just stock or recreation.

Spoiler alert:
Two details I did not hear mentioned I have always understood without confirmation, one, the forward bomb was encased in solid concrete in the ship, I suspect, to delay potential detection, protect it from gunfire on their approach, and after watching the movie, maybe help with proper ramming buoyancing and COG of the ship. Second detail might hare been expected propaganda, but supposedly a lot of German big shots were inspecting the ship after the "failed" mission, when it blew up, killing them as a mission bonus.

Yes, those Brits were tough, and I liked the out of the box thinking at the time valuing Grit, smarts, attitude, initiative over the typical at the time goal of first discipline and always by the book, set in their ways thinking.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: WW2 Operation Chariot: [Re: jcc] #2780590
06/02/20 09:03 AM
06/02/20 09:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Originally Posted by jcc
...Ithe forward bomb was encased in solid concrete in the ship, I suspect, to delay potential detection, protect it from gunfire on their approach, and after watching the movie, maybe help with proper ramming buoyancing and COG of the ship. Second detail might hare been expected propaganda, but supposedly a lot of German big shots were inspecting the ship after the "failed" mission, when it blew up, killing them as a mission bonus.


You are correct on all points about the concrete encasement - Protect the charges, Smash through the dry dock gate, Prevent discovery. On the second point about "mission bonus", I've heard the same thing without factual confirmation of who died, what their rank was. The ship was "crawling" with curious (and "victorious") Germans, but guard units were moving the onlookers back and securing the ship when it blew.

This time in the war, the Brits were basically fighting alone, and had to craft their strategy and use their limited resources skillfully, which they did. They used their brains. Churchill went against many of his commanders who looked down their noses at commando and sabotage raids as something "less gentlemanly" or unBritish - than open combat. Raids on Norway, sabotage in occupied France - it made Hitler nervous, undermined his clarity of thinking (as if he ever had a clear mind to begin with) and tied up a lot of German forces that could have been used elsewhere. Norway alone absorbed over 300,000 troops, that is over full 20 Divisions, that never got released for combat elsewhere.

There are other interesting characters involved in the background of this raid; the engineers and fabricators who developed the adjustable time delay fuses which had to be dead accurate and reliable, and the demolition experts who designed the charges, etc.. These men all began as amateur tinkerers and inventors, shunned by The Establishment, but Churchill saw their potential and set up a research and production structure that brought their products to the commandoes and saboteurs who used them so successfully.

Cheers, - Art


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Re: WW2 Operation Chariot: [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2780647
06/02/20 11:18 AM
06/02/20 11:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,390
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda Offline OP
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Sunroofcuda  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,390
Highland, MI.

Good stuff 67SAT! I need to find a book about this mission - I'm sure it will be a great read. Never heard of this one until I watched the video.


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
Re: WW2 Operation Chariot: [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2780665
06/02/20 12:03 PM
06/02/20 12:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
I have seen real time pics taken of the ship perched on the drydock gate with what looks to be high ranking officers the following day. I just always wondered if the claim many were still present when the ship blew, and somehow the camera survived, was a bit of war time exaggeration. I can't see the Germans freely spouted the command loss.

The fuses shown in the video by the OP, looked to identical to what was used in the July 20th, 1944 assassination attempt on Hitler, detailed in the Movie "Valkerie". Too bad they did not perform due to icing on an earlier with an inflight bomb attempt on March 13, 1943 to kill Hitler.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: WW2 Operation Chariot: [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2780667
06/02/20 12:04 PM
06/02/20 12:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,857
Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline
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hooziewhatsit  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,857
Oregon
Amazing story.

"Just before the Campbeltown exploded, Sam Beattie was being interrogated by a German naval officer who was saying that it wouldn't take very long to repair the damage the Campbeltown has caused. Just at that moment, she went up. Beattie smiled at the officer and said, 'We're not quite as foolish as you think!'"

Cheeky **** haha


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: WW2 Operation Chariot: [Re: hooziewhatsit] #2780681
06/02/20 12:30 PM
06/02/20 12:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
Yea, a great story, but I still find it odd, they didn't use the 12K? style bombs they eventually used on the Turpitz, and not risk so many on a known "suicide" mission. I get the lack of accuracy and all, but the gate likely would not survive any direct hit over 1K is my guess. With the nearby sub pens, even misses would have harassed the sub pens. I wonder if it was a case of a squad looking for a mission, to prove its mettle, not to take away from their sacrifice and all.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.






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