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Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: JD Dart] #2775964
05/18/20 09:14 PM
05/18/20 09:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,999
CT
GTX MATT Offline
master
GTX MATT  Offline
master

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,999
CT
SOUNDS LIKE VAPOR LOCK. Modern fuel evaporates EXTREMELY easy, and the mechanical pump puts it under a vacuum. You likely have 3 PSI fuel pressure or less once its hot as soon as you open the throttle. What kind of electric pusher, and where is it mounted? Is there a filter anywhere before the mechanical pump?

You really need to measure the pressure with a gauge. My car on fuel pretty local to you would drop to 3 psi as soon as you cracked the throttle once hot. It was an animal cold. I spent a long time chasing my tail between the fuel pressure and crappy Thrush mufflers with a combo that should have made 500 HP easily until I mounted a gauge on the cowl. Once both of these were fixed it will bury your head into the head rest when it gets traction in 1st or 2nd gear (rare now, only on slicks). The car didn't nose over, or act like it suddenly ran out of fuel. In fact it didn't really seem like it was vapor locking, except for the fact that sometimes when really heat soaked it would act like it wanted to stall.

Can you get it to run at all when its hot and dies? Does it crank normal? What temperature does it run at?

You can run a compression test cold, then run it warm. If the engine cranks easy and compression is the same or higher it has nothing to do with piston to wall clearance or ring seal.

You should verify timing, but that's not your problem. Maybe the coil, or pertronix unit if you are running that.

If Nick built that engine I really doubt there was an issue with PTW. If anything mechanical I would suspect it might have an intake sealing issue that starts leaking once hot. You had the engine part to hone it but did not check the lash when you put the valve train back together? Check the lash, is it a solid cam or hydro?

Last edited by GTX MATT; 05/18/20 09:41 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: GTX MATT] #2776126
05/19/20 12:42 PM
05/19/20 12:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 503
Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440 Offline
mopar
65Fury440  Offline
mopar

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 503
Spring Hill Fl
Wow, took the whole motor apart!

Quick and easy, go drive it, when it stalls pop the air cleaner, does the carb squirt gas? If no start looking at fuel system.

If yes, pull the coil wire and have someone turn it over while you hold a screwdriver from the coil wire close to something metal see if it is sparking.

Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: cgall] #2776257
05/19/20 08:02 PM
05/19/20 08:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 198
Nevada
M
merpar Offline
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merpar  Offline
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Posts: 198
Nevada
cgall, out of all the replies you are the only one I agree with. Looking at all the pics of that tiny metal fuel line right next to the block. And at one point looks like its about an inch from the header. A simple case of vapor lock. First it needs a much bigger fuel line. Then get it away from the heat . I would use nylon braided hose it won't absorb the heat like that steel line. An electric pump set up with a return line would be ideal. Keeps the fuel moving when at idle.

Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: merpar] #2776303
05/19/20 10:27 PM
05/19/20 10:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,905
Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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Jerry  Offline
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Posts: 6,905
Warren, MI
if you think the fuel is vaporizing in the line and causing vapor lock. the easy question to answer is will the engine cough and run if you squirt gas into the carb? you should be able to check the initial timing with a timing light.


Superior Design Concepts
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Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: Jerry] #2776414
05/20/20 11:42 AM
05/20/20 11:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 503
Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440 Offline
mopar
65Fury440  Offline
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Posts: 503
Spring Hill Fl
All these suggestions may be the problem, or not, it all starts with diagnosis..........

Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: 65Fury440] #2777099
05/22/20 03:55 PM
05/22/20 03:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 232
Berlin, CT
SportFuryS/23383 Offline OP
enthusiast
SportFuryS/23383  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 232
Berlin, CT
Hi everyone,

I got an update on our '67 440 stroker Fury. Yesterday we did a crank test where we put a breaker bar on the damper bolt that holds the damper to the crank (like Mr. Zippy suggested). We cranked the bolt before we started the engine and let it get hot, then we ran the engine until it was warm at operating temp then shut the car off then cranked the bolt again. We cranked the bolt 3 times and it turned about the same each time when it was cold and hot. The car ran great as always until it got up to operating temperature then started misfiring or shaking, we let it run and when it got hot the electric fans came on to cool the engine as they were supposed to twice maybe 3 times. Our Mopar friend/mechanic/guru I beleive saw this posting and called my stepfather about the car. My stepfather talked the problems over with him and another friend, and they both say to check the valves because it might be a tight valve guide problem as they were common with 440 source heads. So the next plan of action is to put a 4th distributor in that is built to spec for a 440 Super Commando, then go check the valve guide. Stay tuned. Here are some pictures of what we did yesterday, below is the ballast resistor and the last blurry temperature picture is when it started misfiring and when we shut it off .We started it up after we shut it off 3 times and it started all 3 times with minimal issue.....

hotrod 1.jpeghotrod 2.jpeghotrod 3.jpeghotrod 4.jpeg
Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: SportFuryS/23383] #2777100
05/22/20 03:57 PM
05/22/20 03:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 232
Berlin, CT
SportFuryS/23383 Offline OP
enthusiast
SportFuryS/23383  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 232
Berlin, CT
Last photos, the last blurry temperature picture is when it started misfiring and when we shut it off .We started it up after we shut it off 3 times and it started all 3 times with minimal issue.....

hotrod 5.jpeghotrod 6.jpeghotrod 7.jpeg
Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: SportFuryS/23383] #2777386
05/23/20 03:22 PM
05/23/20 03:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,081
Idaho
Runner Offline
master
Runner  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,081
Idaho
when its warm out i used to have all kinds of vapor lock problems with my roadrunner, for whatever reason its the only one of the cars i have an issue with vapor lock, for me the fix has been to simply run non ethanol gas.

Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: Runner] #2777387
05/23/20 03:41 PM
05/23/20 03:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,186
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
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L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,186
usa
the best solution for vapor lock is a return line.

Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: lewtot184] #2777963
05/25/20 10:00 AM
05/25/20 10:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,072
Holland MI Ottawa
2
2boltmain Offline
master
2boltmain  Offline
master
2

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,072
Holland MI Ottawa
Originally Posted by lewtot184
the best solution for vapor lock is a return line.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t6geNGbEXM


Keep old mopars alive.
Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: SportFuryS/23383] #2778321
05/26/20 12:16 PM
05/26/20 12:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 971
central il.
S
second 70 Offline
super stock
second 70  Offline
super stock
S

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 971
central il.
Originally Posted by SportFuryS/23383
Hi everyone,

I got an update on our '67 440 stroker Fury. Yesterday we did a crank test where we put a breaker bar on the damper bolt that holds the damper to the crank (like Mr. Zippy suggested). We cranked the bolt before we started the engine and let it get hot, then we ran the engine until it was warm at operating temp then shut the car off then cranked the bolt again. We cranked the bolt 3 times and it turned about the same each time when it was cold and hot. The car ran great as always until it got up to operating temperature then started misfiring or shaking, we let it run and when it got hot the electric fans came on to cool the engine as they were supposed to twice maybe 3 times. Our Mopar friend/mechanic/guru I beleive saw this posting and called my stepfather about the car. My stepfather talked the problems over with him and another friend, and they both say to check the valves because it might be a tight valve guide problem as they were common with 440 source heads. So the next plan of action is to put a 4th distributor in that is built to spec for a 440 Super Commando, then go check the valve guide. Stay tuned. Here are some pictures of what we did yesterday, below is the ballast resistor and the last blurry temperature picture is when it started misfiring and when we shut it off .We started it up after we shut it off 3 times and it started all 3 times with minimal issue.....


I had a coil like that that got hot and caused the engine to quit.

Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: second 70] #2778450
05/26/20 06:21 PM
05/26/20 06:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 520
Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440 Offline
mopar
sr4440  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 520
Central TEXAS!!!!
Originally Posted by second 70
Originally Posted by SportFuryS/23383
Hi everyone,

I got an update on our '67 440 stroker Fury. Yesterday we did a crank test where we put a breaker bar on the damper bolt that holds the damper to the crank (like Mr. Zippy suggested). We cranked the bolt before we started the engine and let it get hot, then we ran the engine until it was warm at operating temp then shut the car off then cranked the bolt again. We cranked the bolt 3 times and it turned about the same each time when it was cold and hot. The car ran great as always until it got up to operating temperature then started misfiring or shaking, we let it run and when it got hot the electric fans came on to cool the engine as they were supposed to twice maybe 3 times. Our Mopar friend/mechanic/guru I beleive saw this posting and called my stepfather about the car. My stepfather talked the problems over with him and another friend, and they both say to check the valves because it might be a tight valve guide problem as they were common with 440 source heads. So the next plan of action is to put a 4th distributor in that is built to spec for a 440 Super Commando, then go check the valve guide. Stay tuned. Here are some pictures of what we did yesterday, below is the ballast resistor and the last blurry temperature picture is when it started misfiring and when we shut it off .We started it up after we shut it off 3 times and it started all 3 times with minimal issue.....


I had a coil like that that got hot and caused the engine to quit.


Now that i seen pictures of your car, let me update my post from 8 days ago, CHANGE THE COIL! at the very least check the resistance cold and hot.


Joe


Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: sr4440] #2778524
05/26/20 09:27 PM
05/26/20 09:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,882
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Online content
Master
MR_P_BODY  Online Content
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,882
Romeo MI
Are you running a electronic dist... I had the pick up coil in the dist do that many times at a shop
that I worked at
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 05/26/20 09:28 PM.
Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: sr4440] #2778615
05/27/20 09:22 AM
05/27/20 09:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 232
Berlin, CT
SportFuryS/23383 Offline OP
enthusiast
SportFuryS/23383  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 232
Berlin, CT
[/quote]

Now that i seen pictures of your car, let me update my post from 8 days ago, CHANGE THE COIL!


Joe [/quote]

It was swapped out already for another one and did the same thing it has been doing

Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2778617
05/27/20 09:25 AM
05/27/20 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 232
Berlin, CT
SportFuryS/23383 Offline OP
enthusiast
SportFuryS/23383  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 232
Berlin, CT
Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY
Are you running a electronic dist... I had the pick up coil in the dist do that many times at a shop
that I worked at
wave


Yes we are running an electronic distributor. We have another distributor built to 440 Commando specs that we bought, so we are going to try to see if it fixes the problem

Re: 440 Stroker Engine Problems In A 1967 Plymouth Fury [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2778619
05/27/20 09:25 AM
05/27/20 09:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,000
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,000
MI, usa
I've read this entire post. Questions. Have you ever pulled the coil wire and checked for spark hot ? I dont see this question answered. Have you ever squirted fuel in the bowl and tried to start? I dont see that answered either. Have you pulled a plug and tested compression hot? If the valves were sticking open hot this test would confirm lack of compression hot vs cold. The engine only needs a few parameters to run. Compression with correct valve timing. If the valve timing was incorrect it would never run. It needs correctly timed spark. And it needs a burnable air fuel mixture. The only other possible item would be restricted exhaust such as a plugged catalytic converter. Since I'm assuming that it has no converters I would say this is unlikely. Also assuming the engine cranks with reasonable speed hot. That leaves 15 minutes worth of tests above to determine why it wont start hot. After determining if its , spark, fuel/air, or compression. The real diagnosis will begin.
Think simple first.
Doug

Last edited by dvw; 05/27/20 09:47 AM.
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