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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: Grizzly] #2777199
05/22/20 08:52 PM
05/22/20 08:52 PM
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Posts: 3,683
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Fulton County, PA
Originally Posted by Grizzly
Originally Posted by 70satelliteguy
Any problems?


Nope.

My Dad has been running them since before I was born, and I've been running them my entire life.

We're in a good-sized town and everyone here runs Fram and believe Me: if there was a problem, the whole place would have heard about it. Race or no-race. twocents

I would have to classify the comments on here as baseless and ignorant.



Plenty of guys who have lost engines, crashed cars, chased issues, who would have different experiences to pass along. Pleeenty. Heck, we had issues with them 40 years ago in the dealerships - when a particular OHC engine in a particular vehicle would come in with the cam locked in the head and the engine wrecked. Every single one had an orange engine killer on it.

Specific issues? Cans rupture, cardboard internal parts and filter collapsing, loss of pressure. Maybe your town is lucky, but I've seen enough stuff torn up and tracks oiled that I know it's not an isolated incident when it happens. Your engine, your car. Carry on.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: CMcAllister] #2777205
05/22/20 09:00 PM
05/22/20 09:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,006
STAYcation Florida
Doc Fiberglass Offline
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STAYcation Florida
Seriously... seaMaC ..... if people were losing motors and crashing cars because of famously defective products for years AND YEARS ..... I would think —- Fram would be sued and bankrupted BACK into the Stone Age BACK with Rocky from Niles Ohio !!

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2777219
05/22/20 09:35 PM
05/22/20 09:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,831
California
BloFish Offline
I Live Here
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California
Just run Wix 51515R, and sleep like a baby. Life’s too short to worry about that.


It doesn't really matter whether you win or loose...
as long as you look good doing it!

‘65 A100
‘69 Barracuda
‘06 Mega Cab 2500
‘14 Mercedes-Benz SLK
Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2777220
05/22/20 09:37 PM
05/22/20 09:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,180
at work
Grizzly Offline
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Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY


I had a Fram on my car and the oil pressure dropped to 10 psi and after checking things a friend
told me to change the filter.. the pressure came right back.. never used a Fram again..
my brother had his pressure fall off I told him to change the filter and it came back up
wave


Puh leez. rolleyes Is this the "Ford owns Cummins" Old Wives' Club?

I'm sure Fram would have been bankrupt years ago if EVERY guy that put a Fram on had a problem (like you make it sound). They've been an OEM supplier since the '30's.

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: Grizzly] #2777223
05/22/20 09:44 PM
05/22/20 09:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,882
Romeo MI
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted by Grizzly
Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY


I had a Fram on my car and the oil pressure dropped to 10 psi and after checking things a friend
told me to change the filter.. the pressure came right back.. never used a Fram again..
my brother had his pressure fall off I told him to change the filter and it came back up
wave


Puh leez. rolleyes Is this the "Ford owns Cummins" Old Wives' Club?

I'm sure Fram would have been bankrupt years ago if EVERY guy that put a Fram on had a problem (like you make it sound). They've been an OEM supplier since the '30's.


I couldnt care less what you want to run.. do as you wish
Two filters in the same household.. within 2 years.. maybe we just have bad odds...
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 05/22/20 09:48 PM.
Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2777224
05/22/20 09:45 PM
05/22/20 09:45 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 575
NC, USA
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davenc Offline
mopar
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NC, USA
Doc,

This goes back a number of years. I had bought a fairly original 70 E-body with a 383 with 88K on the motor. Second oil change with a FRAM PH8A, started car up, and within about 5-10 seconds lifters start tapping. Look under the car to make sure I didn't do something stupid like add oil back without replacing the drain plug. No puddle. Checked the dipstick; plenty of oil. Started car a second time, lifters immediately tapping, shut it off. Scratched my head for a bit since it was running fine before the oil change. Since it was easy, I put the old oil filter back on the motor, add a bit of oil, and try again. No tick but the motor sounds different. Ended up pulling the motor within 6 months of the incident.

I kept that FRAM filter for a while because I did think about suing FRAM. Of course, I would need to prove it was the filter. I would need an expert to examine the motor parts to prove they were damaged by lack of oil. I would have to defend that it was not just coincidence with a 40 year old car (at the time) with some mileage. Lack of oil for a short time looks like excessive wear right? Likely would I need an attorney.

In the end I decided to do nothing. But motors have been lost to FRAM filters and I share this story when appropriate.

Dave

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: 70satelliteguy] #2777225
05/22/20 09:48 PM
05/22/20 09:48 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 707
WA
JD Dart Offline
super stock
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Posts: 707
WA
My worst enemy I wouldn't tell them to use that crap filter I care too much for the engine to suggest suck a wicked thought.


best so far 8.53 @ 158.59 MPH 60'1.240
Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2777226
05/22/20 09:53 PM
05/22/20 09:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,180
at work
Grizzly Offline
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Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY


I couldnt care less what you want to run.. do as you wish
Two filters in the same household.. within 2 years.. maybe we just have bad odds...
wave


Oh, I will. up

After running them for 70 years in at least a couple of hundred vehicles, Heavy Equipment, mowers, ATV's, and Motorcycles, I'm not going to buy yours or anyone elses' BS stories.

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: Grizzly] #2777227
05/22/20 09:55 PM
05/22/20 09:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,882
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted by Grizzly
Originally Posted by MR_P_BODY


I couldnt care less what you want to run.. do as you wish
Two filters in the same household.. within 2 years.. maybe we just have bad odds...
wave


Oh, I won't.

After running them for 70 years in at least a couple of hundred vehicles, Heavy Equipment, mowers, ATV's, and Motorcycles, I'm not going to buy yours or anyone elses' BS stories.


What ever floats your boat
wave

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: 70satelliteguy] #2777254
05/23/20 12:16 AM
05/23/20 12:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 41
The Great State of PA
tabletop390 Offline
member
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The Great State of PA
Stay away from a K&N oil filter too. Same oil pressure issues as a Fram. Only nice thing about the K&N are hex’s on the filters

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: tabletop390] #2777256
05/23/20 12:32 AM
05/23/20 12:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,040
Central Il.
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jughed Offline
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Central Il.
Years ago my street motor dumped a puddle of oil on the garage floor when a Fram PH8 case bulged and lost seal. Good thing it happened right after the oil change. I had the hood open and saw the oil poor out.... got the motor shut off in time. Now I use nothing but Wix.

Ray Barton thinks that Frams are good enough for his pricey motors. shruggy
https://www.raybarton.com/pages/street-series-hemi




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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: jughed] #2777257
05/23/20 12:45 AM
05/23/20 12:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,416
PA.
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"Little"John
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PA.
I haven’t seen near as many cars wrecked because of Fram filters like I used to. Most guys have wised up I’m guessing.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: Doc Fiberglass] #2777260
05/23/20 01:44 AM
05/23/20 01:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,086
Auburn WA
Dave_J Offline
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Auburn WA
Originally Posted by Dave_J
I too had lost 15 PSI on a Fram. Did not think much about it till I dropped all oil pressure at 6000 RPM going thru the traps and my Idiot light came on.

A fellow racer had a spare Wix 51515, Installed it and finished the night and drove home.

A few months later I changed oil and grabbed the last one off my shelf and installed it. In two weeks it too lost about 10 PSI. Pulled the first one out of the trash and cut it open. Found it was all smashed inside, cut the second one and it too was smashed just not as bad.


Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
deeJAY ... 15lb loss would indicate to me ON THE SURFACE.... that the filter is actually FILTERING... instead of going on bypass tsk... grin


Doc, I ran that PH8 for about 200 miles before that Test & Tune night. Engine sounded fine, just 10-15 PSI down from normal.
I had made 3 passes when I lost oil pressure and the Idiot light came on and I shut it off. This was a 383 in my 65 Barracuda. I run a tee fitting with a mechanical gauge and the idiot light sensor.

I go a tow back to the Pits and asked some of the Mopar and Ford racers if they had a spare filter. Ford racer had a few so I bought a Wix 51515 for what he wanted and made two more runs that night with no more pressure loss. I had bagged the Fram and tossed it in the corner of the garage and forgot about it.

When the second one caused a pressure drop I pulled it off and went with a Napa gold 1515 and had no pressure drop. This is when I cut the first Fram open. It looked like a beer can that was drank and crushed and folded in the center The pleats were all mushed up. But NO metal inside that I could see. I also cut the second one open and it too was damaged but not as bad.

The 383's oil pump ran 40 PSI at idle when hot and would go to 75 PSI above 2500 RPM. It was on the engine when I bought it. It was a HV pump with a stock pressure spring. It was still on the engine when I pulled that 383 and put a 318 in the car.


Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994
ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997
Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015


Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.

03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter
65 Formula S Cuda
78 Little Red Express Truck
98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: davenc] #2777330
05/23/20 11:31 AM
05/23/20 11:31 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,676
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Originally Posted by davenc
Doc,

This goes back a number of years. I had bought a fairly original 70 E-body with a 383 with 88K on the motor. Second oil change with a FRAM PH8A, started car up, and within about 5-10 seconds lifters start tapping. Look under the car to make sure I didn't do something stupid like add oil back without replacing the drain plug. No puddle. Checked the dipstick; plenty of oil. Started car a second time, lifters immediately tapping, shut it off. Scratched my head for a bit since it was running fine before the oil change. Since it was easy, I put the old oil filter back on the motor, add a bit of oil, and try again. No tick but the motor sounds different. Ended up pulling the motor within 6 months of the incident.

I kept that FRAM filter for a while because I did think about suing FRAM. Of course, I would need to prove it was the filter. I would need an expert to examine the motor parts to prove they were damaged by lack of oil. I would have to defend that it was not just coincidence with a 40 year old car (at the time) with some mileage. Lack of oil for a short time looks like excessive wear right? Likely would I need an attorney.

In the end I decided to do nothing. But motors have been lost to FRAM filters and I share this story when appropriate.

Dave



Getting an attorney doesn't change the fact you have to PROVE it was the fault of the filter alone that damaged the engine which is as close to impossible as you can get.

All you need to do is cut open a new Fram and a new Wix. You don't have to know anything about filter technology to know which one to use after that.

Kevin

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: Grizzly] #2777334
05/23/20 11:42 AM
05/23/20 11:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,684
Rio Linda, CA
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Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted by Grizzly



I would have to classify the comments on here as baseless and ignorant.



The negative responses are too predictable, mostly based on the old internet "oil filter study" of years past that was mostly an eyeball comparison.


I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.
Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: John_Kunkel] #2777349
05/23/20 12:19 PM
05/23/20 12:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,180
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Grizzly Offline
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Thanks John. up

Yeah, not the first time a good ol' Fram bash has happened on here. It's progressed though from "heard from my Uncles' Cousin" to first-hand accounts !!! shocked shock shocked shock Of course, no photos or video of what most would consider an epic event...........

I'd pay good money to have the oil pump that "ruptured the can" above. laugh2 I'd put it in a Track Hoe and move some dirt with it or a mount it on a Fire Truck for putting out skyscraper fires! tonguue

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: jwb123] #2777356
05/23/20 12:41 PM
05/23/20 12:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,291
Great Neck,LI,new york
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: hemi-itis] #2777366
05/23/20 01:04 PM
05/23/20 01:04 PM
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Trumussia
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I read here awhile back about the insanity of using the dreaded "Orange" filter that I was continuing to use on my third Tacoma, now with 500K+, so I switched to the Silver Fram. stirthepot


"Respect and Contempt are best served when justly earned"
Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: jughed] #2777370
05/23/20 01:11 PM
05/23/20 01:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,735
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Originally Posted by jughed
Years ago my street motor dumped a puddle of oil on the garage floor when a Fram PH8 case bulged and lost seal. Good thing it happened right after the oil change. I had the hood open and saw the oil poor out.... got the motor shut off in time. Now I use nothing but Wix.

Ray Barton thinks that Frams are good enough for his pricey motors. shruggy
https://www.raybarton.com/pages/street-series-hemi

That looks like an HP filter to me, very different from a PH8 and probably not a bad filter.

PH8 probably okay as a low cost filter for a low performance daily driver.

I don't know why anyone that was on Moparts would want one.

Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar? [Re: jughed] #2777374
05/23/20 01:33 PM
05/23/20 01:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,948
Oregon
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Oregon
Originally Posted by jughed
Years ago my street motor dumped a puddle of oil on the garage floor when a Fram PH8 case bulged and lost seal. Good thing it happened right after the oil change. I had the hood open and saw the oil poor out.... got the motor shut off in time. Now I use nothing but Wix.

Ray Barton thinks that Frams are good enough for his pricey motors. shruggy
https://www.raybarton.com/pages/street-series-hemi


Maybe Barton puts Fram filters on those engines so he'll get some business doing rebuilds.

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