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R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? #2775774
05/18/20 03:30 PM
05/18/20 03:30 PM
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....wanna spank me for even THINKING about running 87 octane fuel ?

Man ... do I have a story to tell ! wave

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dOc - 3.0 !] #2775805
05/18/20 04:06 PM
05/18/20 04:06 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
We don't even run that urine in our 2019 5.7 truck. Lol


I raise chickens, so I am literally a chicken tender.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: Guitar Jones] #2775814
05/18/20 04:16 PM
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Hay geeTar ! ...... well THX for informing us that the LooneyVille regular gas IS substandard!

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dOc - 3.0 !] #2775826
05/18/20 04:27 PM
05/18/20 04:27 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
It's the same gas YOU buy down there in Methville.


I raise chickens, so I am literally a chicken tender.

The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks and one new one.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dOc - 3.0 !] #2775831
05/18/20 04:31 PM
05/18/20 04:31 PM
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United Socialist States of Ame...
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Doc...Here in our small town we have 91 at a mom and pop c-store. It cost not much more than 87 swill so I put that into our lowly v-6 Challenger. I also use it in my 3010 Deere,our lawn tractor,and lawn mower. Quit being a cheap azz...If you can afford a Scat Pack you can afford the good gas. Take good care of your car... up


The end is near.....
Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: Guitar Jones] #2775832
05/18/20 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Guitar Jones
It's the same gas YOU buy down there in Methville.


tsk ... BANJOnes ! ....well then someone must have actually TINKLED IN YOUR TANK for regular not to work FINE in a 5.7 !

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: tboomer] #2775835
05/18/20 04:35 PM
05/18/20 04:35 PM
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I agree with the rest. I run at least 91 in my 5.7 and 93 in the 6.1 and 6.4.


Jim

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: tboomer] #2775839
05/18/20 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tboomer
Doc...Here in our small town we have 91 at a mom and pop c-store. It cost not much more than 87 swill so I put that into our lowly v-6 Challenger. I also use it in my 3010 Deere,our lawn tractor,and lawn mower. Quit being a cheap azz...If you can afford a Scat Pack you can afford the good gas. Take good care of your car... up


t ... trying to find 91 here is ruff. And I HAVE BEEN running 93 but I ran into a guy who has a 19 Chally Scat who is running 87 in his now on a daily basis ... with and for easy SOFT driving ..... of course premium is used for any racing or cruising action.

I tried it LAST NIGHT in mine .... on a 350 mile trek to way north Tampa burbs ... then to way east Orlando burbs then back .... I was genuinely surprised... positivity!

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dOc - 3.0 !] #2775966
05/18/20 09:15 PM
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Drove my sons 2017 Scat Pack Challenger from Detroit to Myrtle Beach SC last year. Pounded on it some. 87 the entire trip. 22 mpg rd trip.
Doug

Last edited by dvw; 05/18/20 09:16 PM.
Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dvw] #2775989
05/18/20 10:12 PM
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It might be OK since its NA, the ECU will react to the knock and retard the timing. Or you will break a ring land or spin a bearing pre-maturely, especially with those tight bearings for that thin expensive oil. The worst thing to do is switch back and fourth.

Would you run 87 in any other 11:1 engine? I wouldn't, and I wouldn't run 87 in the Scatty Pack (wish I had one).

Shoulda just bought the V6 Doc, then you could run spin tech oil and 87, but I know you wanted to look cool apimp

Last edited by GTX MATT; 05/18/20 10:13 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: GTX MATT] #2776002
05/18/20 10:59 PM
05/18/20 10:59 PM
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My 6.1 SRT got the best mileage on 89. I never beat it real hard without at least 91.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dvw] #2776024
05/19/20 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dvw
Drove my sons 2017 Scat Pack Challenger from Detroit to Myrtle Beach SC last year. Pounded on it some. 87 the entire trip. 22 mpg rd trip.
Doug


Well THX Doug .... good to see a CTC guy NOT spank me !

Was that a stick car ? I ask that because sticks don’t have MDS.

I misplaced my first gas fill reading so I don’t have a MPG read but I think I got even bester than 22.

I was on the E way and put my foot into it for a bit .... pulled 411 horsepower.... smooth as silk ... no noise no bucking... no slight surge AT ALL .... up

And I KNOW what detonation sounds and feels like ..... nervous

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: GTX MATT] #2776026
05/19/20 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by GTX MATT
It might be OK since its NA, the ECU will react to the knock and retard the timing. Or you will break a ring land or spin a bearing pre-maturely, especially with those tight bearings for that thin expensive oil. The worst thing to do is switch back and fourth.

Would you run 87 in any other 11:1 engine? I wouldn't, and I wouldn't run 87 in the Scatty Pack (wish I had one).

Shoulda just bought the V6 Doc, then you could run spin tech oil and 87, but I know you wanted to look cool apimp



gM..... that ECU .... what’s the timing retard range ? .... and ORE blow a hole in the piston ! Switching back and forth ??!!

87 in an 11 to one motor ? ... there’s a famous OEM motor that was I think 11.2 and the OEM almost directed it to be 87.

QUITE HONESTLY... when I found out SOME PARTICULARS about the SP ... I almost kicked myself for buying it because the SP you cant put any type of trailer hitch on it. Like for hauling a small boat or utility trailer.

The LOOK ? .... how about that Charger GT ??!!

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: slantzilla] #2776027
05/19/20 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by slantzilla
My 6.1 SRT got the best mileage on 89. I never beat it real hard without at least 91.


slanTee..... I almost bought a SRT8 300 that was super clean, low miles and about HALF THE MONEY of the SP.

Buttt ... I never had had a new car PLUS I thought the 2020 car would have better tech that was scienced out bester.

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dOc - 3.0 !] #2776029
05/19/20 01:38 AM
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Let me add ... THEY DID have a used 19 GT with about 10k miles WITH a sunroof..... but it was close to the same price as the SP !

CLOSE meaning about 5k$ less... here’s a screenshot of the site listing. I got it for 33 - plus those PLUSES !

I think what happened they got a FULL TRAILER LOAD of base SP cars on a deal and then they were sitting on them for awhile and got scared ..... they are all gone now but the only SP car listed IS NEAR regular MSRP

F7B90AF2-590C-438A-8FEC-C1A19CEA019B.png
Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dOc - 3.0 !] #2776041
05/19/20 05:17 AM
05/19/20 05:17 AM
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Its an automatic.. It's been 12.0@115 in 90 degree weather so I don't think I hurt it.
Doug

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dvw] #2776073
05/19/20 09:41 AM
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Bone stock ? If not what are the mods ? Sticky tire ?

AND it does PULL real nice ... I don’t know about close to 115 quarter mile big end

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dOc - 3.0 !] #2776130
05/19/20 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc Fiberglass
Originally Posted by GTX MATT
It might be OK since its NA, the ECU will react to the knock and retard the timing. Or you will break a ring land or spin a bearing pre-maturely, especially with those tight bearings for that thin expensive oil. The worst thing to do is switch back and fourth.

Would you run 87 in any other 11:1 engine? I wouldn't, and I wouldn't run 87 in the Scatty Pack (wish I had one).

Shoulda just bought the V6 Doc, then you could run spin tech oil and 87, but I know you wanted to look cool apimp



gM..... that ECU .... what’s the timing retard range ? .... and ORE blow a hole in the piston ! Switching back and forth ??!!

87 in an 11 to one motor ? ... there’s a famous OEM motor that was I think 11.2 and the OEM almost directed it to be 87.

QUITE HONESTLY... when I found out SOME PARTICULARS about the SP ... I almost kicked myself for buying it because the SP you cant put any type of trailer hitch on it. Like for hauling a small boat or utility trailer.

The LOOK ? .... how about that Charger GT ??!!


Doc, I probably shouldn't have commented because I really don't know what the ECM/map for the Scat Pack has in it, or even really if the logic has changed from the older stuff. And I've never even actually tuned a Gen III hemi car or truck (I will when I buy one). But I have tuned other EFI applications. I'm really speaking in generalities of the knock logic for most engine management systems (exactly what you're not supposed to do, logic can vary a ton and is important0 and what I saw when I explored the maps in some of the the older G3 stuff. What I looked at had max retard of 5-15 degrees total, varied by RPM, I.E. up to 10 degrees at peak torque, 5 degrees at redline, and as much as 15 degrees at super low RPM.

The comment on switching back and fourth is based on the fact that the ECU will generally realize that it has to keep pulling timing and store it as a semi-permanent adjustment (will check periodically to see if it can add it back). But if you fill it back up with 93 its going to realize it can add it back, and when it doesn't knock it will un-learn the long term correction. When you fill it up with 87 again its going to knock and pull timing until it learns to store it as a long term correction again. But in the mean time it does get subjected to the knock. You will not hear the knock, the ECU is pulling the timing before you hear it.

The rule of thumb used to be 6 points in octane decrease needed 8 degrees of timing pulled, the new stuff probably doesn't require as much to be pulled.

Being NA can you get away with it? Probably, but the question is for how long? Lots of people run 87 in their cars that are supposed to get 91 or 93. Some people drive old carbed stuff detonating like crazy. Boosted stuff will absolutely break quickly if its detonated excessively, rings, ring lands, or bearings. The more power you make, the more you pack that combustion chamber, the more damage knock can cause. The 392 is making some pretty healthy NA power for 392 cubes.

It won't break immediately because even if it pulled no timing it should last for a little while. The engineers know a tank of bad gas at some point is a good probability, and they do know people will try to run 87, so there are going to be safeguards. Also they are actually set up to run on 91. It's not a guarantee but I can say for sure, subjecting the engine to more detonation will increase the likelihood of a detonation related failure.

Last edited by GTX MATT; 05/19/20 01:07 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: GTX MATT] #2776253
05/19/20 07:50 PM
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iMpReSsIvE buncha knowledge there gM ! bow

Do I have bunch of followups but I have to go to the shop ....but REAL QUICK....

How much has the ECU tech improved in the last day 3 to 5 years ?

Re: R U Scat Pack guyz going to .....? [Re: dOc - 3.0 !] #2776468
05/20/20 01:08 PM
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GTX Matt is spot on. The PCM's in these cars are really smart.

A certain amount of knock is expected and allowed for, but if it sees knock too often or too severe, it will start to pull it out.

If you run 87 in the car, it WILL knock, the PCM WILL see it way before you hear it, and it WILL pull timing out to keep the motor safe. It's very unlikely that you could hurt it on 87, it will just be down on power. The after market tuners are even taking advantage of 93 octane vs the factory 91 tune... so every octane number counts.


As mentioned, the PCM will monitor the continuous knock, and eventually adjust the timing tables permanently to pull it out. Rather then wait to hear the knock, the PCM is proactive and permanently corrects the timing tables until it's gone. So when you put a tank of 93 in it, the PCM won't even try to add timing back in again right away. It would take a long time to get the timing back into the timing tables.

So if you had any thoughts of throwing 93 in it when you went to the track, you'll still be way down on performance from the 87 octane timing adjustments.

To answer your other question on PCM technology... They evolve each year. I can tell you my 2016 scat pack doesn't even use the same PCM architecture as the 2018 scat packs... so they continually change. Sometimes due to security, sometimes to speed up the ECU, sometimes to add features, etc... But overall the engines have stayed the same, so the tune is nearly identical for power output.

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